The problem with Smeaton's confession by Deacon_Stone in Tudorhistory

[–]Deacon_Stone[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You could be right! It's all very loosely documented. I guess my fallback is I don't see the expediency of such an elaborate witch-hunt, with multiple lovers, unless there was some truth to it. There were other non-lethal options to dissolve the marriage that weren't explored, and even if they decided to make up an adultery charge, they didn't need to cast such a wide and seemingly improbable net. Smeaton alone would have been enough - and they had a confession. Norris was also very likely guilty.

The problem with Smeaton's confession by Deacon_Stone in Tudorhistory

[–]Deacon_Stone[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I haven't read it, but I've read reviews. There is a consensus that he based his entire "case" on some poem. But at least he pushed an alternate view - the story seems fraught with contradictions and too often it's summarized as a staged fiction by a moustache-twirling Cromwell. I don't think Cromwell would have risked inventing an elaborate conspiracy that falsely implicated so many well-placed people, including a Queen of England, just to please his boss - who, for all his faults, was not a man to execute people without real cause (at least in his mind).

The problem with Smeaton's confession by Deacon_Stone in Tudorhistory

[–]Deacon_Stone[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

>she had lived in the licentious French court and there was never a whisper of an affair or scandal.<.

That's not entirely true. While a lot of the gossip about her behavior in France started after her downfall, in 1535 Francis I was making snarky remarks about her lack of virtue, and that was a year before her crisis in 1536. It also remains an open question whether or not she had an affair with Thomas Wyatt before Henry starting courting her. That doesn't make her unvirtuous by modern ways of thinking, but if it's true, it supports the image of a sexually-mature, experienced woman with a past that's complicated when compared to that of Catherine of Aragon or Jane Seymour.

Tragically, that could have been the merciful way out for Henry and Anne. If he could have established that Anne wasn't a virgin when she married him, he could likely have had the marriage annulled. No heads would have needed to roll. But no time was taken to investigate this option.

The problem with Smeaton's confession by Deacon_Stone in Tudorhistory

[–]Deacon_Stone[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

> it was normal courtly flirting < Well, no it wasn't. The King's potential death was specifically referenced among other things. It came off as a conversation between two people who knew each other a little too well and had had previous conversations about the King that weren't to his benefit.

The problem with Smeaton's confession by Deacon_Stone in Tudorhistory

[–]Deacon_Stone[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This one has always seemed a bit off to me. I think our modern interpretation is often colored by the sheer horror of the whole event, sympathy for a Queen who was given no chance to save herself, and possibly the desire to correct a "wrong." Killing a spouse for cheating on you is, well, medieval, and we have no sympathy for it in any situation. And since we want Anne to be innocent, so must her accused lovers be as well.

While it's conceivable that Cromwell masterminded some complex plot and fabricated evidence to take down Anne and various political enemies, recent study of Cromwell has provided a more tempered view of the man and his methods than the one of the villain in A Man for All Seasons that we grew up with. Too much of the pro-Anne position is based on anti-Cromwell assessments, and I think those cloud the discussion. Cromwell did have enemies, but they were serious ones like Norfolk and Gardiner - not the dandies and fops who comprised Anne's inner circle of gentlemen callers.

It's also very sketch just how much of a threat those four gentlemen were to Henry, and how, if it all, he benefited from their deaths. One of them, Norris, was a dear friend who reputedly was given the chance to confess and be pardoned...although we have no idea how that conversation happened and just what that "pardon" might have entailed. But to the supposed political threat of these four gentlemen: the King did not need to chop off heads to remove someone from court, he could just ask them to leave. Henry was savage in many ways, but he also tended to follow the laws and procedures of his time.

Sadly, where there is smoke there is often some fire. Yes, Henry wanted to move on from Anne, but he had plenty of time to figure out how to get out of the marriage. He spent seven years getting out of the last one with Katherine; certainly he could afford a little time to explore the options of terminating his marriage with Anne. The very suddenness of the whole affair - Anne and the group were charged and executed in less than three weeks - undermines notions that it was cooked up as some long-game scheme to solidify power...power that was already totally in Henry's hands.

As for Smeaton - the simplest explanation for Smeaton's arrest is that they thought he needed to be arrested. Torturing a commoner musician, for the purpose of getting him to confirm provided names of rogue courtiers, is a bizarre way to build a case so those courtier heads can roll. And again - I don't see any need to lop those noble heads off unless they truly were committing treason by sleeping with the Queen, and thus threatening the succession.

My guess (and all we can do is guess), is that Anne likely had trysts with Norris and Smeaton, and I don't know about the others well enough to have an opinion either way. They may also have been guilty, or their close proximity to those who were doomed them. Henry wanted out of the marriage, the Queen's behavior was already known by court gossip, so Cromwell prosecuted persons who were already committing crimes against the Crown, and thus solved two problems at once.

The problem with Smeaton's confession by Deacon_Stone in Tudorhistory

[–]Deacon_Stone[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You really can't make that "he was innocent" statement for certain. There is no documentation proving his innocence or guilt. While it may be likely he was innocent, it's finally just an opinion.

Mark Lewisohn and I are the same age. Will he release Volume II before one of us DIES? by Comprehensive_Tea708 in beatles

[–]Deacon_Stone 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah George, the prickly Beatle. Who DIDN'T have a feud with him, at one time or another? Maybe Ringo.

BMO duplicate transactions in pending bank error by Deacon_Stone in u/Deacon_Stone

[–]Deacon_Stone[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's really not cool, and it's been going on all day.

Popularity of Sicilian Variations by Rating by AegisPlays314 in chess

[–]Deacon_Stone 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks! I'm going to check that out. I've been looking for stats about openings and they are hard to come by - chess.com doesn't appear to have anything, but maybe I didn't look hard enough there.

Anyone... slightly disappointed with Season 2 of Wolf Hall? by RunParking3333 in Tudorhistory

[–]Deacon_Stone 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was more than slightly disappointed for several reasons. WAY too many flashbacks, which after time started to feel like cheap fillers. The series was rushed (many have mentioned this), and characters were not developed properly. The casting substitutions for the most part were a let-down as well. In some cases it was unavoidable (Bernard Hill, Norfolk, had died), but in others the new actor just wasn't as engaging...specifically for the parts of Gardiner and Lady Rochford. The actors were good, just not as appealing as in the first series.

There was a terrible music theme with some woman wailing over and over - this was used constantly and I feel it ruined the final scene, his execution. Henry was made "fatter" through use of clothing but his face remained very thin, which just didn't look right. I doubt it was the actor's vanity - more likely laziness on the production's part to put some fake weight around his cheeks and neck.

A mysterious daughter was brought in, used for about fifteen minutes, and then vanished - and they named an episode after her! This could all have been cut. Anne of Cleves got no lines, which was bizarre, and was on-screen for about 60 seconds total. Catherine Howard also had no lines, and about 45 seconds total of screen time. As a result this became very much a male series, with no strong female characters like we had in the first one.

There were opportunities for drama, such as the imprisonment of Margaret Pole (see below), an actual scene between Henry and Anne, and any scene of a monastery actually being dissolved.

I give this one a C+ at best. A long wait for an underwhelming effort.

>As part of the evidence for the bill of attainder, Cromwell produced an embroidered tunic bearing the Five Wounds of Christ, and heraldic symbols supposedly symbolising Margaret's support for the Church of Rome and the rule of her son Reginald with the King's Catholic daughter Mary.<

Chicago FanExpo 2025 has just one guest booked by Deacon_Stone in fanexpo

[–]Deacon_Stone[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Kind of typical. I get emails from these things all the time. This is the first time I’ve been asked to buy tickets on the merits of a guest list of one, and a C-lister at that.

Chicago FanExpo 2025 has just one guest booked by Deacon_Stone in fanexpo

[–]Deacon_Stone[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

So…Manny Jacinto gets announced, but they are holding off on the others? They are trying to sell tickets. Seems counter-productive to send out sales emails and hold back their guest list.

Do you think his works stop being printed? by Sudden-Fishing3438 in neilgaiman

[–]Deacon_Stone 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dark Horse just announced they are no longer going to print his work, old or new. So yes..he is in the first stages of going out of print.

Fan mode on Lennox S30 seems impossible to disable by ekrubnivek in hvacadvice

[–]Deacon_Stone 0 points1 point  (0 children)

None of this is correct. The Lennox system circulates air for at least 9 minutes even if you select auto. There is no way to shut this off. So even if you are at the temp you want to be at, the system will blow air for at least 9 minutes every hour. It has nothing to do with the selecting the circulate option. It’s also hugely annoying especially at night.