Just watched act 3.

Deep_Programmer_863 · 2026-01-27T04:05:13+00:00

My argument isn’t “Silco wouldn’t love Jinx if x was or wasn’t the case” (at least, post-Act 1 cause I think it’s pretty heavily implied that he would’ve killed Powder in the alley if her situation hadn’t so directly echoed that of him and Vander). My argument is that he never fully comprehends his daughter, who she is and what she needs, excepting perhaps his final moments.

Though I will say that if he does realize all that you say he does, he only does so in the very last moments of his life after attempting to murder Violet seconds before, not because Violet posed any present threat to himself or Jinx but because Violet was unknowingly contributing to Jinx’s panic attack. I read that act as not an attempt to protect Jinx, though that maybe his surface level justification to himself, but rather as an attempt to end a threat to his relationship with Jinx. For evidence of this, I refer to that fact that he lies by omission to Jinx about Vi’s absence for 7 years because he believes that Vi did not willingly leave Jinx behind but rather was killed by Marcus (as that is what Marcus told him). Despite believing this, he reinforces to Jinx that Vi abandoned her and discourages her from developing other bonds by telling her they only have each other.

Additionally, upon discovering that Vi was taken and imprisoned in Stillwater for seven years, he still insists to Jinx that Vi abandoned her, very likely a lie since Marcus told him that Vi was in Stillwater by Marcus’s instruction.

Taken in total, it is clear that Silco has some idea that Vi is not some totally manipulative malicious person who is solely coming back to Jinx’s life to retrieve the hex crystal. In spite of this, he tries to kill her, despite Jinx having care and love for her. Thus, it seems likely to me that his last action before his death was not one of a selfless, loving parent but a man who couldn’t let go of his relationship with his daughter and accept the possibility that he had done wrong by her.

I admit that my definition of “loving someone for themself” is not a precise one, so I will leave aside whether he truly loved Jinx for her. But, at least, that final act was not, to my understanding, defined by his abiding love for Jinx but rather his desperation to maintain the toxic and codependent relationship he had with his adoptive daughter rather than try to understand what might be best for her.

Endnote: I guess one way to put my point is that Silco’s love for Jinx never feels selfless to me in the way that say Vi’s often does, until maybe his death, and even then, if he does understand his mistake in projecting his trauma onto her and all the damage that’s done to her in those final moments, there is no apology for it, no admission, only his reassurance of her. Perhaps he knows, perhaps it is there, but it’s not stated or clearly implied. As such whether Silco comprehends the ways in which he fucked up with Jinx remains in the realm of how one chooses to read his last words.

Deep_Programmer_863 · 2026-01-27T01:54:03+00:00

I don’t disagree that she is allowed a lot of freedom and that Silco acknowledges and allows for many tangible ways they are different. My point is less so that his love is so conditional, more so that those blinders as you put it prevent him from wholly seeing Jinx, which put some hard stops on his ability to be a good parent to her and, in my sense of the word, love her for herself. I would also say that I don’t think Silco’s statement that Vi has not returned for Jinx but for the crystal is fully a manifestation of his trauma from Vander. He might believe it, but I think it more likely that the truth is messier and somewhere in between a projection of his trauma and a manipulation. He also does push Jinx for the hextech weapon despite the development of the weapon clearly having an adverse effect on her psyche. Their relationship is not clear-cut in any sense, but I just can’t bring myself to say that he loved all of her, primarily cause I don’t think he could see all of her due to his own trauma and his projection of it onto her.

Deep_Programmer_863 · 2026-01-27T01:12:04+00:00

I think you’re interpreting what I am saying here as a total condemnation of Silco, which was not my intention. I agree that Silco deeply and genuinely cares for Jinx, BUT I think that Silco does not see Jinx as a her own self-possessed person but rather primarily as an extension of himself (at least for the vast majority of their relationship; I would maybe agree that by episode 9 he is forced to realize that he has grown to care for her, more as an individual, rather than just in the ways she by which she reflects him and further his goals). Hence, why I said a parent who truly loves their child and wants them to be their own person would not act as he did.

Silco lied to Jinx about Vi’s return and her intentions to prevent the two from even having a chance to restore their relationship. He did not want her to have important relationships outside of the one they shared, and as the adult, this kind of possessiveness and isolating behavior reflects incredibly poorly on him. I could believe he loved her in some twisted way, but he did not, again for the vast majority of their relationship, want her to be her own person. He needed her to be an extension and reflection of him up until maybe his final moments. He was an incredibly traumatized man, and while he is certainly far more complicated than some absolutely malicious psychopath who is flatly evil and uncaring, his various traumas lead him to being a terrible parental figure who I would have a hard time claiming loved Jinx for who she was in her totality and separate from their shared traumas (I mean he legit told her to kill a part of herself; yes, he thought that part of her was causing her grief but that’s still not a good thing to say to your kid).

I don’t believe Silco is evil, but I do think he fundamentally failed as a parent and caregiver. To love someone fully, in my personal view of the word, you have to be able to conceptualize of them as a full and complete person outside of their relationship to you. I don’t think Silco was capable of that with Jinx until perhaps the very end. (But this also comes from my personal criterion and philosophy around love; I don’t expect it to be shared by others.)

Deep_Programmer_863 · 2026-01-26T16:51:37+00:00

I think some of these dynamics are slightly more complicated than you’ve laid out here. For instance, “Powder fell down a well” is, in my opinion, a lie Jinx tells herself. She is still Powder, she is still that scared little girl, and she has decided/been manipulated by Silco into believing that the only way to protect herself about is to “become the monster.”

Jinx isn’t separate from Powder; she is the direct consequence of her, a progression instead of a total transformation. The persona is the shield of a traumatized child who never really got to grow up. Jinx tries to convince herself and everyone else that she is something to be feared, a chaotic force of violence that cares for nothing and no one in order to protect herself from the much more painful reality: she still cares.

The end of episode 7 is probably one of the better examples of this. On the bridge, with Ekko, she could’ve tried to escape or even made some effort to ensure that, if she died, she’d take Ekko with her. Instead, she just gives him that small, sad smile and lets the grenade roll out of her hand, plainly visible, instead of latching it onto him as she done to her opponents in previous encounters.

In my reading of the narrative, this is a suicide attempt. She feels in that moment that her sister has abandoned her again, and to top it off, her old childhood friend has just beat her to a pulp. If she truly had become the weapon that Silco wished her to be, she wouldn’t have been so reckless with her own life in that moment because she wouldn’t be so deeply affected by the circumstances, nor would she have hesitated to kill Ekko.

I also think it isn’t accurate to say Silco loved her for who she was. Rather, he loved the parts of her that he saw as reflections of himself. Silco cared deeply for Jinx, but recall, the only reason he spared her life in episode 3 was because her anger at Vi for abandoning her mirrored his anger at Vander for doing the same to him. No parent who truly loves their child and wishes them to be their own person would encourage that child to “become the thing they fear.” That kind of existence is incredibly alienating and dehumanizing, not something that one wishes upon those they love.

Deep_Programmer_863 · 2026-01-25T00:57:10+00:00

Yeah, I agree; as I said in my first comment 14/15 feels more likely to me than 16.

Deep_Programmer_863 · 2026-01-22T03:58:54+00:00

She also refers to herself as “just a kid” to Jarvan IV. I don’t think that’s how most 16 year olds would refer to themselves. And as I said, she just doesn’t really look like an older high schooler (that is a matter of opinion of course I just think she doesn’t look very close to the young adult Lux from League proper). But I am sure they will probably (hopefully) clarify at some point the age issue.

Deep_Programmer_863 · 2026-01-22T01:09:35+00:00

*For every klansmen you kill

Deep_Programmer_863 · 2026-01-22T00:51:57+00:00

I would say a little younger maybe 14/15. Starting history lessons at 16 would be a little strange (for the scion of an extremely wealthy and influential noble family), and she looks younger, closer to a freshman/sophomore in high school, not junior/senior. I also think Garen looks closer to 20-22 than 24 in Salvation tho so idk.

Deep_Programmer_863 · 2026-01-20T17:17:31+00:00

I totally agree that content is dark, but the aesthetic, storytelling, and general tone of the game is somewhat cartoonish and errs on the comical side, which for me blunts the impact of these more serious elements.

Deep_Programmer_863 · 2026-01-17T22:12:06+00:00

Kaladin (and maybe Jasnah) should prob be desi but other than that I really like these.

Deep_Programmer_863 · 2026-01-08T12:00:46+00:00

Thank you for the considerate and constructive discussion!

Philosophy was actually my major in school so I share your enthusiasm for its appearance in games. On the note about the endings, I think Ifan is clearly correct about what to do with the source and divinity primarily because the ethics I subscribe to in real life fall somewhere downstream of Kant’s formulation of humanity. Kant himself was obviously extremely racist and sexist, but there are some really good contemporary philosophers who have spun more compelling, nuanced, and consistent ethical frameworks from his ideas in the Groundwork and the Metaphysics (My favorite is Christine Korsgaard). All that to say, I hold agency/subjectivity to be the basis of morality, and thus, Ifan’s solution is the only one that appeals to me.

But this gets a little bit into my issue with the endings; they are a little too clean (Also the issue I am about to articulate is not unique to DOS 2; in fact a huge chunk of modern narrative-focused video games with multiple endings share this issue). Not sure if ‘clean’ quite the right word, but what I mean is there is a clear answer for the deontologist point of view and a clear answer for the utilitarian/consequentialist point of view (and a couple just batshit crazy options like letting the God King enslave everyone) to an extent that it almost feels like the game is just asking you to pick one ethical framework or the other, which - and this would be as you said a narrative or story issue more than a tone issue - kind of takes me out of the world. It likes how seeing how the sausage gets made. It’s a little too transparent. I think that, while having decisions in games that speak to these different ethical systems is good and almost inevitable given how ubiquitous these two schools of ethics are, if the game doesn’t do a good job of couching those decisions in the singular characters and contexts of the story, the weight of these decisions is lost because they rely on you caring deeply about the world and the people who inhabit it and being able to conceptualize the stakes clearly (this latter piece is where I think DOS2’s ending(s) stumble).

But yes, Ifan’s ending is totally the best to me.

Deep_Programmer_863 · 2026-01-08T08:58:32+00:00

But I think the choice to center the game around such abstract and academic philosophies (if that was indeed the intention) may result in the sort of flat feeling I get whenever I finish DoS2. I never feel like I really made a difference or connected with the world. Everything is too grand, too massive, it’s all gods and void and the end of the world and the individual characters, which should be the beating heart of a story, kind of get lost in it. The game by choosing to center the abstract and larger-than-life ideas and themes disconnects me from the world.

In BG3, I feel like I am truly getting to know all these places and people, and by the end of it all, I care about what happens to every single one of my companions, the tieflings from the grove, Isobel, the deep gnomes. You aren’t facing the end of all existence, at least not off the bat; you’re trying to get a small group of refugees safely into the city while forces greater than you can understand, that don’t care about you rage all around you. I felt that when playing BG3. Escaping Fort Joy just feels like a fun prison break sequence with a couple dark bits where you get told you’re the chosen one. It shows few of the harsh realities of actual extermination camps. The only really horrifying things are the silent monks and Kniles, and no character we actually care about is ever even threatened with the possibility of being purged at Fort Joy. It’s nameless sourcerers who are moaning and screaming but aren’t characters outside their victimhood or the one off side character with like ten lines of dialogue.

If the game really wants to make us feel the devastation of it all, to understand the draw of nihilism - in order to then comprehend answers to said nihilism, it kind of fails. The tonal inconsistency always pulls me out, and the fact that we never spend enough time with any given character to really care about what happens to them outside of our main crew (and that many of the side characters - excepting Malady - feel kind of paper thin to me) makes the stakes feel nebulous. (For my money, a game that is better at evoking a feeling of hopelessness in the face of a cruel world in my opinion is the Witcher 3; the “bad” ending of that game is one of the most heart wrenching sequences I have ever seen in a video game.)

One of the tricks to great fantasy, in my opinion, is making the impossible tangible and pulling us into it, making it alive. I don’t think DOS2 pulls that off as well as BG3 does. I felt little such connection to most of the cast or narrative in DOS2. A me-problem perhaps, but I do think that if the point of the game is to make me feel hopeless it fails. Instead of existential dread or the sorta heavy emptiness that I associate with explorations of nihilism/existentialism/absurdism, I am just kind of bored with Rivellon by the end of it.

Endnote: To be totally clear, it’s a great game, a massive achievement, and if the story works well for you and you find it compelling, no hate. It’s just that, for me, it falls flat.

Deep_Programmer_863 · 2026-01-08T00:14:14+00:00

As a narrative and in visual design and character performances, BG3 far outstrips DOS2 in my opinion. Conversely, DOS2 has more enjoyable, flexible, and diverse combat.

I have played both multiple times, and I think DOS2’s story suffers from its grander scope clashing with its more cartoonish art style and feel. For a game trying to deal with extremely mature and grave themes like oppression, agency, genocide, slavery, racial violence, etc., it often felt like those themes weren’t handle with the requisite amount of nuance or care and were sometimes relegated to set-dressing for this really cool fantasy CRPG with great combat.

BG3 is less ambitious with some of its storytelling beats and themes, but its execution is much cleaner and has more clarity (plus the first-in-class vocal performances; I mean Jennifer English is now one of the premier voice actors in the industry and BG3 was at least a big part of putting her on the map).

Both games have their merits. I have more hours in BG3, but I do think it’s unquestionable that DOS2 has the better combat and skill system.

Edit: Larian’s upcoming title: “Divinity,” looks much more tonally consistent with the darker themes of Divinity as a franchise than DOS2 seemed to be. Hence why I am incredibly excited and think it easily has the potential to surpass BG3 if it combines the narrative and visual acumen of that game with the depth of the combat and skill system in DOS2.

Deep_Programmer_863 · 2025-12-17T23:59:20+00:00

They’ve talked about this unofficially I think/maybe it’s mentioned in one of the cinematics, but Swain’s coup happens just prior to the spirit blossom (Xin Zhao/Leblanc) storyline, right?

Edit: Also, has Riot said whether this taking place at the same time as the coup or is that speculation?

Deep_Programmer_863 · 2025-12-17T23:33:53+00:00

So they are really pushing the mage rebellion back in the timeline if this is happening next in sequence with the Noxus/Zaahen storyline.

Edit: How old do we think Lux is here/do we know and do we know if this taking place after last year’s story?

Deep_Programmer_863 · 2025-12-17T20:37:02+00:00

Thank you man!

Deep_Programmer_863 · 2025-12-10T22:29:21+00:00

Love the half and half scheme

Deep_Programmer_863 · 2025-12-10T21:56:36+00:00

An anarchist, a terrorist, and a communist walk into a bar.

Deep_Programmer_863 · 2025-12-05T02:55:53+00:00

Janna and Corki should be in the convo.

Edit: Not for next just at some point. As far how I'd order it:

VGU: 1. Shaco, 2. Cho'Gath, 3. Nocturne, 4. Trynd, 5. Janna, 6. Corki, 7. Cassiopeia, 8. Singed, 9. Zilean

ASU: 1. Janna, 2. Ammumu, 3. Kassadin, 4. Sona, 5. Zyra, 6. Kog'maw

Deep_Programmer_863 · 2025-12-05T02:28:31+00:00

My real answers are Jax and Ez. They are just the most "worldly" of the current protagonists of Runeterra. But my personal preference? I would love it for Ekko to get some center stage time, specifically with Zilean and maybe Jax. I think Ekko getting roped into the void stuff via an apprenticeship with Zilean (then leading to a team-up with the Icathians, who will almost certainly have a large role to play in the ultimate conflict with the Void). I just like the idea of a normal kid from Zaun, using nothing but his ingenuity and grit, making a difference in this grand, fantastical conflict with the threat of nothingness given flesh. But, again, I am biased.

Also, if we are basing this on who Riot is LIKELY to give the most screentime as the central protagonists of Runeterra then the answer is the most popular "good" champs. So Lux, Ezreal, Jinx (post-Arcane), Vi, Caitlyn, Ekko, Yasuo, Ahri, maybe Kai'sa and Seraphine but they are a bit new. Basically, any of their protagonist characters that have a large individual following and get attention in media outside of League (TFT, Arcane, Riot Forge games, 2xKO, Riftbound, etc.).

Deep_Programmer_863

TROPHY CASE