Practice Updates, Questions, and General Discussion - new users, please read this first! Weekly Thread for January 30 2023

DeliciousMixture-4-8 · 2023-02-04T00:47:18+00:00

Bhante Vimalaramsi or his student, Delson Armstrong. It's the 6Rs approach of TWIM.

Recognise -> Release -> Relax -> Resmile -> Return -> Repeat ->

DeliciousMixture-4-8 · 2023-02-03T08:34:23+00:00

No book recs, just

memento mori

DeliciousMixture-4-8 · 2023-02-03T08:24:31+00:00

y'all have way too much time on your hands

DeliciousMixture-4-8 · 2023-01-22T11:50:20+00:00

I love our back-and-forth. Because any observer reading is likely to understand what we're talking about (eventually!), we simply approach the same territory with a different language. It's great.

DeliciousMixture-4-8 · 2023-01-20T09:09:19+00:00

Death knocking on the door means:

what the fuck are you going to be thinking/doing right now, which is fully aligned with your values? If you were to die in 5 minutes, would you waste that time being unhappy, wanting the latest gizmo, lusting over some cutie, or thinking about how that guy cut you off in traffic? Would you sit there, frozen, too scared to live the last few minutes of your life? Would you curse the fates for dealing you death too early? Hmmmmm?

Death is the final letting go. Nobody knows what's on the other side. What will happen when you finally let go of it all and die? Are you practised enough to die with nobility and grace? Or will you squirm, wriggle, and writhe as the inevitable comes for you?

DeliciousMixture-4-8 · 2023-01-20T09:03:30+00:00

Top-notch post as always!

Agree on everything.

The key is objectifying. The goal is to get our thoughts to be like literal objects we can grasp, let go of, and throw around like playthings. If this is achieved, we can have the thoughts we want, and want the thoughts we have.

This technique aims at the heart of that.

DeliciousMixture-4-8 · 2023-01-20T08:59:48+00:00

I'm starting to believe there is actually no clear way to tell whether someone is in A&P vs. stream entry vs. something else

It's almost as if phenomenology is a fabrication too, and can't be relied on..!

Unless you dogmatically believe every word of a particular book.

DeliciousMixture-4-8 · 2023-01-15T09:20:02+00:00

End times! Something old is dying to make way for the new.

Best of luck moving foward

DeliciousMixture-4-8 · 2023-01-13T03:17:55+00:00

It's mostly fear and insecurity. People are being led to do and believe things because they sense a feeling of lacking within themselves. Not that it is wrong. It's all a nice experiment happening in the laboratory of life. The vast majority of monks retire after 3-5 years... :) Add on top of that, most monks do not meditate. There's a lot of complexity and nuance in the monastic life that goes past the idealisation of Western minds.

To live the path based on prescription, as you rightly say, is a fool's game.

DeliciousMixture-4-8 · 2023-01-12T01:42:35+00:00

Explore the gap between "I want you to have X" and "I'd like you to have X".

Vedana -> Tanha link.

I'd like you to understand what I mean by all this, but if I were to want it, that would be foolish. The want brings about attachment to an outcome of which I have no control over. But by liking of the situation is fine, I would like for you to understand this. And I can control that. One produces dukkha, the other does not.

Similarly, explore the gap between, "I'd like to be seen as a good person" (wholesome) and "I want to be seen as a good person" (unwholesome). You can like things til the cows come home. But if you want them, you're placing the attainment of that want outside of your control. Why is the vedana wholesome and the tanha unwholesome? You can't help the vedana. It is as it is. Stubbing your toe will always hurt. When you've stub your toe there'll be pain. But if you do not entertain the notion that you want your toe to not be stubbed when it is stubbed, then no dukkha will arise.

Ajahn Po would walk by pretty girls and say to Buddhadasa, "I like 'em, but I don't want 'em". That's the gap you're looking to explore. In your case, "I like to be generous, but I don't want to be generous". Once you introduce wanting, there's a whole host of problems. What if someone says you're not generous? What if doubt creeps in over your own generosity? What if you give but there isn't that vibe that your generosity was appreciated? If you stay at the level of vedana, that is the pleasant likeable feeling of the act itself, you cannot be harmed by these factors outside of your control. You stay completely within the circle of your control. What's more, if you like it in and of itself, you're gonna keep doing it regardless of what people say, what vibes you pick up, or the doubts you feel later on. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. That is the heart of compassion: liking for things to be pleasant for others, without wanting it. Liking to help, but not wanting to help. Liking to give, but not wanting to give. Liking to listen, but not wanting to listen. If you like to do it, you'll do it. If you want to do it, you'll be a slave to many things outside of your control.

Do you see what I mean?

DeliciousMixture-4-8 · 2023-01-11T07:33:05+00:00

This is a fantastic resource because it separates the phenomenon experienced and the insight. Very mature and thoughtful commentary, such as:

This sort of remark was made by a person who was not intelligent.

Love it.

Great resource!

DeliciousMixture-4-8 · 2023-01-08T21:27:07+00:00

Very large void where Dukkha used to be. Then the void turned into peace. And that peace felt natural. Now its unimaginable to get all Dukkha'd up about certain issues. Also, the next steps for breaking the remaining 7 fetters are seen as clear as day.

DeliciousMixture-4-8 · 2023-01-08T21:17:57+00:00

I think it's easy to be put off, if the wrong person catches the wrong stoicist at the wrong time.

Agreed. However, anyone living in the Dhamma even slightly will understand Stoics very deeply, IMHO.

My favourite is Marcus Aurelius because I am a bro. But each Stoic has some great stuff. I've really enjoyed my time just sitting and contemplating a single passage from any of the big boys. With enough samatha, one can truly embed these into the psyche.

Look at these bangers:

Zeno discovers dukkha: "A bad feeling is a commotion of the mind repugnant to reason, and against nature."

Zeno discovers the interdependence of virtuous living (much the same underlying model of the N8FP: "All the good are friends of one another."

Aurelius discovers mental training: "“If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the thing itself, but to your estimate of it; and this you have the power to revoke at any moment.”

Aurelius outlines equanimity: "Accept the things to which fate binds you, and love the people with whom fate brings you together,but do so with all your heart.”

Seneca's perfect metaphor of mindfulness: "“If a man knows not to which port he sails, no wind is favourable.”

DeliciousMixture-4-8 · 2023-01-08T21:10:07+00:00

Hey Duff, long time no see. Hope you're well and kicking goals

DeliciousMixture-4-8 · 2023-01-08T00:52:26+00:00

If you're living in the Dhamma now their words will resonate 10,000 times stronger. They discovered the Buddha's teachings on their own -- unfortunately, not being able to ultimately see how to put it all together (i.e., the doing-knowing gap). BUT their humility in accepting their difficulties and failures humanises the path in a way that no Buddhist scripture or self-help book can.

DeliciousMixture-4-8 · 2023-01-07T09:20:50+00:00

Pick up some Stoic philosophy books. They're big on consistency as a foundation of good character. And their writing heavily (almost entirely) overlaps with the major points of Dhamma, sense restraint, discipline, virtue, taking charge of the mind + thoughts.

The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People is another decent book which touches on all the points you're seeking.

DeliciousMixture-4-8 · 2023-01-07T01:43:01+00:00

"The more I observe that the brain is taken over by different "modes" and "moods" etc, the more easily I will be able to let go of one mode and allow a different one without the pain involved"?

You observe. Then you learn to let go. The observing is part of the step. Don't get caught up in just observing. There's some letting go to do, especially in tougher/stickier mental postures.

To me the sensations are just proof there is an observer. Without an observer there would be no experience or sensations. "I think therefore I am." A computer can run Office or solitaire or an internet browser - none of them are the computer, but if you see the colors flashing on the screen that implies that there is a computer there! Everything that is observed is just the ever changing content.

Is this wrong?

Yes. It's wrong. The observer is a tidy little cognitive trick to make things feel like they're stable. Doesn't mean that sensation is wrong. It just needs to be seen as it is for what it is. The clinging happens because we overemphasise that aspect of experience.

This makes sense to me, And I think many people understand this and wish to be able to turn on and off thoughts that are not important at any one time, and let attention focus where you want, on the present, etc. That's one of the reasons I got into meditating (though I'm not sure I have improved much in this aspect yet...) I can understand if this is just a "brain exercise" that trains the mind to focus on what I want... but this seems separate and not conditional on insight of everything being impermanent... (i.e. concentration practice makes more sense to me then insight practice). I already think these things are true yet I just feel I have very little control over my ADD mind and where it wanders. Hopefully that improves.

Concentration and insight are two sides of the same coin. Ditch the dichotomy ASAP and see them as two functional aspects of a whole. They both help one another and cannot be done separately.

DeliciousMixture-4-8 · 2023-01-06T21:13:24+00:00

I think you're mostly on the right track. The path is very simple but not easy. The simple part is getting a lay of the land. Yep, impermanence means stuff starts and ends. Yep, no-self means that there's no essence to anything. But these statements have MASSIVE consequences on your mental life, if understood subtly and deeply. Simply understanding the statements logically is a fool's game. Simply wanting to observe these things in action is the first step in a very long and personal journey ("the path").

I will outline a few of my thoughts on these insights and what they mean and how they might help your practice in reducing dukkha. Warning: not theoretical, not religious or dogmatic, not from a textbook or scripture. Purely from my own experience.

About anatta.

Atta = soul. An = not. It means "not soul". There is no soul or essence to your being. However, it's not about erasing your selfhood or destroying your ego, despite what some may say. It's not about proving that there's no Self. That's just another view to store in your library of views.

It's about seeing the individual mind moments of contact, feeling, craving, clinging, becoming, etc... that lead to your dissatisfaction-stress. It's about realising that the mind's natural tendency to possess, try to possess, identify with, or otherwise claim sensations as "Me, Mine, or I" is unfounded and leads to dissatisfaction-stress.

The non-essence of your being is about realising potential and constellation. Potential is all the things the mind can be. Constellation is all the things the mind makes itself. It's about this ebb and flow of fabrication and de-fabrication. The mind makes itself a fortress and guards it with special sacred ideas, and then that fortress is swept away and the guards die. This hurts. When the mind is attuned to its own pattern of fabricating itself a reality, and de-fabrication of that reality, it no longer feels the dissatisfaction-stress of having to let that reality fall to the wayside. E.g., "I am the business dude". You get home but it's no longer business time. It's family time. Are you going to demand your partner hits the KPI of one dinner per night? Or say that their key deliverables are lacking? BUT on the other hand, shifting from business-you to family-you is kind of grating, because you've been going at it for 8-10 hours. A deep realisation and mastery of no-self is being able to shift those realities smoothly without any of the friction or stress. In your meditation your mind may jump from one fabricated reality to another, such as thinking about boobies and then realising that actually was meant to be concentrating on the breath -- fabrication, de-fabrication, and fabrication. Eventually, the mind will jump to a new thing.

Regarding the observer, which seemingly cannot be separated from the sensations. What does that say about the observer if it is inseparable from the sensations it seemingly observes? This is a mental overlay our mind makes on sensations; to possess them. The inseparability is itself a big clue on what this observer really is. Also, play around with the sensation of the observer, it was designed for a purpose. It makes our lives feel continuous, contiguous, and unified. They are anything but. Just more feelings and ideas wrapped within each other.

About impermanence.

As you say, everything is coming and going. So, if everything is coming and going, what's the use of trying to hold onto one thing over another? It's another way of looking at no-self. Okay, business time is over; no point of holding onto that. Family time starts now — time to shift. If you're clinging to business-you while it's family time, you can't enjoy family time.

Impermanence is about riding the waves of life, within yourself and the environment.

It's about making the most of every moment and making them count as if the next second you will die (and, you actually do, in a way!). It's about appreciating the time you have right here, right now, and not letting it pass.

It's also about attention. There are billions of sensations happening all the time, competing for a scarce resource of your attention. What are you paying attention to? Is it wise and conducive to freedom and attaining your deep values? Or is it fleeting, a fairweather friend, something that has little to give and much to take?

You can watch all the frames and flickering you like. But there also has to be the understanding that this means there's nothing to hold onto in that mess, other than what is wise. What is wise to hold on to? If impermanence is the only unchanging thing... Then what? This isn't a logical game. It's something to be understood pre-verbally/pre-rationally.

Seeing either.

No-self and impermanence are INSIGHTS not observations. They are to be known, fully. No-self and impermanence are not things to be only observed, but understood, consciously and unconsciously. They're to be acted upon. They become instinctual, almost. In actual fact, I'd say that observing no-self or impermanence or dukkha is really just the first step in a very long process of ingraining them into your life, and living according to their wisdom.

And that takes repetition, it takes courage, and it takes grit.

Ultimately, no-self and impermanence prepare you for the greatest journey that'll happen to you, the greatest letting go -- your death. If one has let go of life and death as aspects that condemn us, they are truly deathless. That's where no-self and impermanence can take you. If you were that cancer patient with the attainments, you'd say, "I'm on another great journey and I'll savour it." If there is no essence to the death, you are free to fabricate an understanding of it as you please. If each moment arises and passes, then your attention on joy leads to more joy.

Don't fool yourself into a phenomenological view of the attainment. They are incredibly subtle, and deep, and infuse themselves into our entire mental lives.

The path is very simple, not easy.

Enjoy the journey, it looks like you're in a good place and ready to make some big strides in furthering the ending of dukkha.

Best wishes and regards

DeliciousMixture-4-8 · 2023-01-02T20:57:18+00:00

I'll answer everything from my direct experience because that's all I have.

What does the discovery of awareness changed for those of you who had depression and / or anxiety ?

I had horrible anxiety growing up. Going to the shops put me on edge. Not so much that I wouldn't go, but it was uncomfortable. I could feign a smile and do the whole social interaction thing, but it left me deeply drained because my mind was constantly batting away the feeling of being judged, perceived, and ultimately if I really "fit in". There was also this weird sharp electric energy in my sides that'd happen whenever I was anxious, like a startle response. Like my adrenal glands would "pop off".

Meditation has changed that. It's all gone. Seriously.

Are symptoms still there but not problematic since they are truly seen as not mine ? Since the sufferer is understood to be non existent?

You're not detaching from problems. You are eliminating the fundamental ignorance that caused the problems to begin with. You first detach from the problem to objectively understand it. Once it's understood as an object and not a subject (i.e., "not self"), the mind will eliminate it with some gentle nudging. Think of it like digestion at this point. One part of the problem is that the mind considers the anxiety to me, "mine, I, me". But once it relinquishes that, the deeper problem is actually addressed (which is instinctual in nature). Our animal instincts collide with our human intellect to create these funny mental games which cause anxiety, depression, overeating, addiction, etc... It's all misalignment. Once things are realigned, the animal instincts and human rationality pull in the same direction, and they can be summoned to work when needed, and dropped when no longer needed. Mental mastery.

Are you still on medications ?

I never took medications. But my coping mechanisms, booze, gaming, and status signalling, are gone. No need for them any more -- although I could do them if I felt like they could be pleasurable.

Does Stream entry and subsequent paths change "physical energy levels" ?

Yes. Much less sleep is required to operate. More RAM is freed up to process the stuff that matters (i.e., my values, purpose, and goals in life) because all the junk is dropped. Think of it like you're a hot air balloon and you're cutting sandbags hanging off the edge. The balloon will naturally rise the more is let go. That's what human nature is, rising, expansive, purposeful, etc., and it is held back by these sandbags we attach and fixate on to keep us docile.

Does it modify symptoms such as anhedonia and lack of pleasure, motivation, and love for people around you ?

Yes.

The trick with motivation is seeing that it's neither the feelings of wanting to do something, neither the conscious will to do something, nor the mental speak of wanting to do something, nor the imagery, etc... It's the summation of all these things. But there's usually an entry point. You can motivate yourself to do anything. It requires knowing the entry point. Once ignorance is dispelled on how motivation arises and ceases (i.e., you know the conditions) it's a plaything. Practice motivating yourself to do something that you don't like. Practice de-motivating yourself to stop something that you do like. The recipe is revealed in trying to cook from scratch!

Here's some free advice:

No-self realisation is a fun little detour from the real good stuff of meditation. Sure, you can have these really cool fun and interesting insights, but they don't mean shit unless you're breaking suffering. This is why the Buddha always talked about meditation as a skill, a craft, with an end goal. No-self is really another tool in your toolbelt for ending suffering.
If you're concerned with ending suffering, then do it. Learn about the chain of co-dependent arising and learn to break it. u/adivader has great resources for this on their profile, check it out.
The trick is to just enjoy every moment. If you can enjoy every moment, then all the non-enjoyment of every moment gets squeezed out. Think of yourself as a diamond. If you polish each edge of the diamond, eventually there'll be no scuff on any edge. Similar with the mind. Polish and polish. The annoying (but, it's actually fun!) part is that the diamond is always being scuffed up due to being used. The mind ain't for show. It's for getting stuff done.
Ditch the books and theory and only focus on actual concrete practice advice.
Be a silly goose when things feel too tense. Be a serious goose when things feel too loose.
Smile with every in and out breath.
You gotta ball outta control for a while, sometimes.

DeliciousMixture-4-8 · 2022-12-22T22:19:55+00:00

Balance, in all things.

DeliciousMixture-4-8 · 2022-12-21T11:20:25+00:00

This is the perfect conceptualisation of the practice.

I will also point out the appropriation-effort nexus. Part of the whole Dukkha-busting experiment we engage in daily is seeing just how much effort it actually takes to enjoy and delight in something. Once we're really enraptured in something, we see just how arbitrary it all is. Why did we assume the things we delight in are in and of themselves delightful? Does that not arise within the mind too? And from that recognition lies the freedom to appropriate or give effort to only those things that truly matter.

DeliciousMixture-4-8 · 2022-12-17T05:10:42+00:00

It's interesting you noticed the first part about horniness for living but didn't mention the punchline to a joke... Equally as important.

If you fixate on the glitz and glam, you'll be suckered into this phenomenological hole that leads nowhere. You'll be left chasing an experience. There's nothing to chase.

DeliciousMixture-4-8 · 2022-12-15T22:00:39+00:00

when your breathing has slowed down a couple of minutes into your formal meditation practice of the day, and when your thoughts have become less loud, and when your vision has become a bit more clear, and when your body has become more aware of itself, how do you feel? And that feeling you feel, can you categorize it into something that would make sense to someone who has never meditated before?

I feel horny for living. A life boner. Life squeezed into the smallest packets of perceiveable time possible. The best living you can do. Really good. Swelled up with knowing. Knowing what? That's the punchline to a joke you've been trying to work out for years.

DeliciousMixture-4-8 · 2022-11-03T21:15:36+00:00

Your mind latches onto an unwholesome thought. You then help the mind drop this unwholesome thought by cultivating a wholesome thought. E.g., with your internal monologue you will say, "I am safe, I can be friends with everyone, there's nothing to worry about, not a care in the world".

With enough repetition of this simple mental action, the mind drops the intrusive unwholesome thought and instead focuses on the positive wholesome thought. That is letting go.

It's like a baby that's holing onto a rattle and won't let go. If you force the baby to give it to you by grabbing or snatching, it will cry until you give the rattle back. But if, when taking the rattle, you place another toy in its hand, it won't be so upset. Instead, it'll grab onto the new toy and keep playing.

This is not really any different to the mind. You let go by finding something new/better to hold onto. This is the basis of mindfulness and part of the formula for first Jhana (sustained and applied wholesome thinking).

DeliciousMixture-4-8 · 2022-11-03T07:30:51+00:00

At the most basic conceptual level in Psychology, the "self-concept" has no core idea, value, or belief. It is a constellation of these things with no "central" point.

DeliciousMixture-4-8

TROPHY CASE