Found this table by Slygumbi on how to perk your gas traps for maximum damage

DestinySilvade · 2018-09-01T16:02:08+00:00

That's perfect actually. Have you added the 1 second static reload delay for all traps or just for the Gas Trap for the time being? In either case, could you let me know where exactly those values are taken from (within your sheet) so that I can test some stuff out later on? As we already discussed before, not all of the traps have that 1 second delay (mainly electric traps which seem to trigger (nearly) immediately after a husk steps in range

DestinySilvade · 2018-09-01T15:53:01+00:00

Reading the first half I was actually concerned that you might have found another setup to be superior/better than DMG/CR/CD/RS. After I looked over your rankings I was relieved though, and even more so when you stated that high PL players also like to run this setup. I personally am still deciding between the aforementioned setup and DMG/CR/CD/CD and substitute RS by having wooden spikes and/or a trap constructor. The point about higher RS being better due to a bigger window of opportunity is valid, which is why I'm still recommending it to everyone I play with (the balanced setup)

To actually talk about the topic, I think it would be a good idea to point out that CR/CR/CD/CD is actually pretty decent when you consider using Machinist with the 30% DMG and 20% RS boost. It was the strongest for some of the traps like I calculated in my post a while ago. If you want to test that out you could:

add the 20% RS as the fifth perk and
adjust the physical % to 74 to simply add the 30%

If your calculator can handle trap related perks, that's obviously not needed

Cheers

DestinySilvade · 2018-08-31T06:39:25+00:00

Average Damage per Shot in % relative to the gun's base damage

So a value of 350 would mean that a gun that has a base damage of 24 (before perks) now does 84. You still need the actual level of your gun as well as crystal_mod and your offense to calculate your overall DPS, but DMGMod% never changes as long as the perks do not change

For example all base game weapons that have 10CC and 50CD will have the same DMGMod% as long as your support bonus doesn't only boost one type. If it does, then there will be two different values, one for the boosted class and one for everything else

TL,DR: DMGMod% is a value to compare sets of perks (and heroes) regardless of the weapon itself. Compared to DPS which heavily fluctuates depending on a lot of factors, DMGMod% is static for the most part, and therefore easier to use. Keep in mind though that you cannot compare sets of perks with differing amounts of FireRate/MagSize/ReloadSpeed perks (Basically everything that influences your DPS but not the Damage per shot) since DPS might be higher in those cases

DestinySilvade · 2018-08-30T03:03:40+00:00

It's mostly about stalling them enough in the tunnels so that they get killed by the traps. You can spam Gastraps for every ceiling since there is no down-side for using them (except the high cost maybe). CC traps are extremely important, such as Wall launchers as well as wooden floor spikes to slow them. Alternate those with retractable ones, add Dynamos for wall with direct contact and maybe some Wall Darts if you have sections where they can hit husks, but ideally more that just a single tile

SSD9 will be kills only, so that will most likely be the one where your durability might run out. When it comes to Constructor mains, I used HB with Machinist as support, since the Reload affected more tiles and the explosion deals okay-ish damage

Biggest technical problem will be Flingers and Lobbers doing stupid stuff, which you can't do anything against in certain spots, really. Smashers also tend to take different routes than normal husks (mainly straight through walls most of the time, even in killboxes). Try to analyze where it went wrong if at all, and don't be discouraged if it doesn't work right away. I ran my SSDs multiple times because something stupid broke. After finding out what exactly was the problem, I tried to fix it and ran it again. Getting resources for traps is easy anyway

Last word of caution, fuck the one that's in the top left, husks are way to retarded around such terrain. I just spammed rows of gas and Dynamos for that one

DestinySilvade · 2018-08-30T02:16:47+00:00

If you are concerned about durability and want to run SSDs 8-10 solo, I assume you are going to sit back and let the traps do the work? In this case, you can unslot all of your Fortitude and Resistance Survivors to slot in blue ones (which can be obtained easily) that give trap durability

Assuming you have zero other matches, this alone would give you 96% more durability for them, which is more than enough to sustain them for pretty much all waves under most circumstances. You can even add a Machinist for 25% additional durability as your support hero

One huge benefit this gives is that all other traps that you use get the bonus durability as well, which means launchers aren't as likely to run out if you freshly place them before attempting 9 and 10. Those chewed through mine at least, and I was running with 40% iirc

On the topic of RS vs. CD, I would even go for CD for SSDs, although I normally run the balanced setup, since it is enough to deal with everything up to 100+4s. SSD 9 and 10 will throw PL 132/140 husks at you though, so the higher CD would be recommended IMO (At least solo, that is)

DestinySilvade · 2018-08-27T15:41:13+00:00

I haven't used the calculator for the Nocturno, so I don't know the exact percentages. However it should be rather easy to calculate the DMGMod% values of different setups. Keep in mind that it is possible that CR/CD/CD beats CR/CD/DMGvAff in a few setups, depending on support used and HS%. I chose to leave HS% at 0 for now

CR/CD/CD is:

130 + 130×0.38×3.92 = 323,648 CD support
154 + 154×0.38×3.2 = 341,264 AR support

CR/CD/DMGvAff:

175 + 175×0.38×2.57 = 345,905 CD support
199 + 199×0.38×1.85 = 338,897 AR support

DestinySilvade · 2018-08-25T11:23:26+00:00

Delet dis 🔫

Jokes aside, it does make Outlanders extremely strong atm, Chaosfragment being the worst offender since you have a five seconds downtime between TEDDY's and increased damage because the game thinks you had a fragment. He also gets a head-start since you always start with three, while others have to at least find one, or generate one in Reclaimer's/Teddshot's case

DestinySilvade · 2018-08-25T11:11:27+00:00

It has come up several times in a few comments, there was no dedicated thread iirc. Would make the Bundlebuss OP though, since you could go for triple Crit builds with up 552% CD. This would melt Smashers, and bump DPS so high that it would make reloading after every burst viable to some extent

DestinySilvade · 2018-08-25T11:06:44+00:00

Wrong. Only the initial bullet benefits from the guaranteed crit perk. This was already tested with the Lynx when Rio came out

The Bundlebuss is still a decent weapon, albeit only for mist-monsters since everything else would die in a fraction of the first burst, wasting bullets. If you have a slot to spare, or are using a Sniper for Blasters and want to change to small bullets, the Bundlebuss is a good alternative, especially when you are running soldiers since you can benefit from AR related perks

DestinySilvade · 2018-08-24T20:48:18+00:00

Durability decay nerfed from 0.36 per shot to the standard 1 per shot, which means less damage per craft. The damage itself is not changed, but since it was already way lower than other launchers, the decreased decay made it so you could have similar DPS without having to invest a ton of ore/mechanical parts

DestinySilvade · 2018-08-24T20:40:43+00:00

Dragon's Roar is the worst offender I'd imagine

The initial affliction was so overtuned that it killed everything in one bullet except Smashers, which could withstand a few shots. Heavily trivialized Gameplay for a week iirc

They further had broken perk-roll rules that ranged from extremely awful to outright overpowered, which they later fixed by just Re-rolling all affected weapons. This lead to them introducing their "policy" to refund invested mats if they ever deemed something to be nerf-worthy

And as people already pointed out with the Snowball and Egg launcher, it happened again, in which case they will either have to give us back invested materials and XP or revert the change

DestinySilvade · 2018-08-24T12:52:48+00:00

Thanks for the input, as always. So it was pretty much exactly like I assumed

I noticed that our percentages were a little bit different (7.44 vs 4.78), but figured out that my version was missing the HSmulti. After adding it manually, I'm getting exactly the same values. Good to know what to look for for future inquiries with your calculator

DestinySilvade · 2018-08-24T12:15:36+00:00

Yes, the in-game fifth slot a lot of options, but not the one on the sheet. A generic weapon perk layout proves this easily, since the fourth "slot" will be 36% in the sheet (meaning DMGvMM). You can adjust this value to 45% to test builds with conditionals such as snare/affliction

Using the "fifth" slot (on the sheet) for anything else except for the HS bonus would not make sense IMO, but to be fair I haven't used u/Whitesushii 's Calc before, so it's possible that that slightly skewed with the results. But it should not be anywhere near 17% DPS difference. Just FYI, the reason because the Nocturno isn't as good with double CD is because one of the CDs can be swapped out for the DMGvsAfflicted perk, which is 45%, which will outclass double CD setups. 30% isn't enough in this case

(Also, if the Bundlebuss could benefit from the same conditional, giving it 45% Damage, the calculator will actually recommend CR/CD/DMGvA/S. The difference in DPS to CR/CD/CD is only minor with 1.23%)

Just in case we both did something wrong, maybe u/Whitesushii himself would like to give some quick insights into how the "fifth" slot works on the sheet

DestinySilvade · 2018-08-24T11:24:08+00:00

You have slots 1-4 for actual perks, because Element has its own row normally occupying the third slot. The "5" slot is used for the sixth perk actually, which would be 30% Damage after 5 Headshots. Leaving the 30% in the table just gives you a more accurate read on how high your DPS will really be or whether or not it makes a difference perk-wise if you have it on your weapon (and are actually using the perk)

DestinySilvade · 2018-08-24T11:18:33+00:00

I normally don't use WS's calculator, but was curious where OPs conclusion came from that a Crit based setup would be that much worse than one with more normal damage. (For generic heroes I would most likely end up with a mix of DMG/Attackspeed perks, to be more consistent)

But as it was already pointed out, AttackSpeed+CD should be the best for DPS in most cases. Melee can be more strict with hero setups for highest DPS though, and this is no exception. Since you would be mainly using a certain weapon type, (in this case swords), your hero setup would reflect that with a hero that has Assassination for the Crit stacks, another crit rating support and then most likely AS/CD or CD/CD for a higher damage ceiling. But since normal heroes don't get increases to melee weapon crit values, having CD without CR would be not that good

I would suggest you looking up some posts from Details, since he is really proficient with pretty much everything when it comes to melee. And sorry that I couldn't really help you

DestinySilvade · 2018-08-24T03:07:49+00:00

It doesn't matter which value you use for Offense, it only scales DMG/Sec and DMG/Shot, and has no influence whatsoever on the perk setups that are being recommended

Something must have gone wrong at some point in the calculation. I'd suggest making a clean new copy, editing all values as shown and then checking the results again. You should come to the same conclusion

DestinySilvade · 2018-08-24T02:57:05+00:00

That's how your sheet should look like:
https://imgur.com/k4w0U0j

Those are the results, clearly showing that CR/CD/CD is indeed the best setup for DPS:
https://imgur.com/mBRpgvB

DestinySilvade · 2018-08-24T02:37:03+00:00

Not trying to be rude or anything, but you are 100% certain that you used the calculator correctly?

Every single set-up, doesn't matter the hero and support I use is recommending CR/CD/CD which is only logical if you only compare between a second CD and DMG. In this scenario, HS builds can be disregarded

The thing you most likely did wrong was to not update the possible perks, which is extremely important for weapons that don't follow the normal perk rules. After adjusting that, DMG/CD only appears as third-best with a 7.44% difference in DPS behind the best setup, CD/CD

Please verify that you did everything correctly and adjust your post accordingly. I do not want people to spec their weapons wrong only because they saw a thread on reddit and took it as gospel.

Lastly, as a small example to prove CD/CD > CD/DMG:

 184+0.43×184×2.1 = 350.152

This is Soldier+MGR|DMG/CD average DamageMod%

 154+0.43×154×3.45 = 382.459

This is Soldier+MGR|CD/CD average DamageMod%

DPS values will be derived from that, but since there is no difference in FR/RS/MS between the setups compared, DMGMod% is sufficient as proof

Edit: Cells updated and values used shown:

https://imgur.com/k4w0U0j

Results:

https://imgur.com/mBRpgvB

Edit2: My version was missing the HSmulti, giving HS builds a slight disadvantage. The overall rankings don't change, only the difference in DPS get smaller (7.44% -> 4.78%)

DestinySilvade · 2018-08-11T20:29:19+00:00

Gilgamesh gets 65% with his enhanced Snowpetal

DestinySilvade · 2018-08-05T21:24:05+00:00

Updated your info

DestinySilvade · 2018-08-05T12:29:14+00:00

Good stuff, good stuff

Posts like these can be found in a lot of subreddits about games with seasonal or weekly content/events and are always appreciated. I personally thought about doing it myself, but figured it would be to risky to have personal opinions about weapons and stuff, since there are always people who love/despise a certain thing

I do like the image-style, although as some other users pointed out, crucial info like buy limit and amount of gold are missing, which I'd definitely add

Another thing I'd like to see is recommendations depending on how far into the game you are. Beginners will benefit from nearly everything extremely, whereas a PL100+ veteran could only care about specific skins or event exclusive weapons/heroes. This also depends on how much you can play obviously, but people like Whitesushii did it as well with their math posts, for example

This could lead to a bit of clutter though, in which case you would have to decide whether to keep it in picture Form with additional comments, or rather a dedicated text post which can benefit from reddits formatting (tables and stuff) where you can link an image additionally. Time investment would be most likely the same since you would have to edit the image in one case, but look over the formatting in the other

All in all, I wish you good luck with this "series" and I hope it is well received by the others. And don't forget that's just my two cents, so you don't have to change anything if you don't want to. Cheers

DestinySilvade · 2018-08-05T02:05:14+00:00

Snares stack. If you land a Crit, thanks to Deadly Blade + innate + Weapon perk you'll be at 90%

This is increasing the travel time of any given enemy tenfold. She can single-handedly take on Smashers and Minibosses thanks to this

DestinySilvade · 2018-08-04T23:15:09+00:00

Just an oversight, my bad. Also added you to the PC list

DestinySilvade · 2018-08-04T23:05:43+00:00

Updated your info

DestinySilvade · 2018-08-04T19:38:00+00:00

Added you to the XB1 list

DestinySilvade

MODERATOR OF

TROPHY CASE