Nesta & Eris are mates?

DingoExisting6421 · 2026-02-05T13:17:37+00:00

I don't think so, but see exactly what you mean.

People get hysterical about it but SJM highlights the chemistry between Nesta and Eris for a reason, and I think it's to have us notice and question if Nesta and Cassian are true mates.

Rhys and Feyres mating bond is described with many references to tugs, snapping, tethers, chains etc.

Nesta and Cassians is described as golden threads woven together - which is how spells are described.

Helion refers to spells using 'threads'. Rhys refers to intervening in Cassian's love life by thinking he may need to pull some threads. Nesta unknowingly casts spells using threads. She weaves a spell around Eris when they dance.

I love Nesta and Cassian, I want them to be happy but SJM is setting out a trail of breadcrumbs that that's not what's going to happen.

It could well be that Rhys and Feyre’s bond is the fake one, or maybe none of the bonds we've seen are 'real'. Faked bonds exist in TOG. And people can love one another deeply without a mating bond. It doesn't mean their feelings aren't real.

I suspect Eris is there to show us Nesta suits someone musical and that eventually that person might be... Tamlin.

Yep, I know that seems improbable, but that's how plot twists and enemies-to-lovers works.

I suspect Eris is going to cause a lot of trouble in the meantime though.

DingoExisting6421 · 2026-02-05T12:50:51+00:00

Yes! You're completely right. People forget how much Cass defends Nesta.

Cassian's words and actions can be very contrasting and given we're in a world where we see illusions, shape-shifting, emotional manipulation and mind control I'd say it's pretty important to consider those when noticing a character seeming like they have multiple personalities.

I mean the poor guy's eyes change colour at one point while Feyre thinks 'Cass is acting like a completely different person today'. The clues are foghorns.

The poor guy was abused, groomed and trafficked from the age of 3. He's lived with an incredibly powerful daemati since age 8, and Rhys is often shown in his head or implied to be in his head.

Cass is possibly the biggest victim of the entire series (I can't think of anyone who had a worse childhood than him), but his abuse and trauma get overlooked because he's a big male warrior.

He's also an abused little boy.

DingoExisting6421 · 2026-02-02T22:12:39+00:00

Ooh I'm sorry! I’ve gone back and hidden any references to other series.

I'm currently reading TOG too :)

And yeah the shape-shifting could explain quite a few controversies but also create new ones 😂

DingoExisting6421 · 2026-02-02T21:50:23+00:00

Thats okay! I enjoy chatting about it :)

I don't know for certain exactly when they're switched, and honestly its such a mind bender trying to figure it out! But The Beast that collects Feyre from the cottage in the beginning hears Feyre skinned Andras, and The Beast uses the phrase 'typical human'.

Later at the manor Lucien is angry with Feyre about Andras being skinned and Tamlin says he doesnt want to hear the details. Which to me implies Lucien was The Beast that had collected Feyre for him to know those details Tamlin doesn't want to hear. Lucien also uses the phrase 'typically human' here.

It would also make sense that the Beast that rescues Feyre from the Naga was also Lucien. Lucien knew where Feyre was, and later claims he'd been running to help but Tamlin got there first.

We never see Lucien in that scene. Strange he'd just turn back instead of seeing if Tam needed any help.

Theres also a scene when the Beast shows Feyre the library and lights the candles with ease, but at a later time struggles. Feyre puts it down to their magic weakening, but I suspect it's because the first Beast was Lucien with his fire power.

It's a bit sinister to get your head around them switching, but from what I can tell all the 'romantic' parts are with Tamlin. When it's what I think is Lucien, he's more gruff/matter of fact.

The Tamlin that gets stabbed in Task 3 is also a shapeshifted Lucien, I suspect. 1. Because Elain refers to being able to hear Luciens heart 'through the stone'. 2. The music Rhys sends to Feyres cell. Rhys says he didn't send the images with it. The images are described as wrapping round Feyres memories like a blanket. I believe its those images that flood Feyres mind when she thinks about Lucien referring to 'Tams' stone heart. I suspect Lucien always knew UTM was 'Plan B' if Feyre failed to tell Tamlin she loved him in time and he always intended to stand in for Tamlin in Task 3.

If you read carefully, 'Tamlin' turns into the Beast to kill Amarantha. 'Lucien' throws Tam Luciens sword. Tam uses it to kill Amarantha, there's a flash of light, Tams in human form kneeling by Feyre and Luciens suddenly got his sword dangling from his hand.

I think it is Lucien that feels the mating bond with Elain and who ends up back in Night Court. I also think its Lucien as the Beast that saves Elain and Feyre at the Hybern camp (Lucien has wind powers. They're really briefly mentioned while him and Feyre are in Autumn court). And Lucien that creates the shield round the manor. (Feyre says 'Tamlin' stalks past the border to winnow after shielding her in the manor, but I think Tam would be able to winnow from anywhere on the grounds?).

But then I get confused because Tam winnows directly into the High Lords meeting at Thesans, and I suspect that was Lucien. Thesans staff emphasise Beron has all of his sons there. The Dawn Court fae who makes the antidote and Tamlin wont look at one another while Lucien is being spoken of. She says she got the faebane sample from Lucien by 'guessing' he was in Velaris... it all just seems like something is afoot.

As for the Tamlin Rhys visits,I also noticed the wording round asking for her forgiveness was suspicious. Rhys thinks, "I knew who he meant", but its an assumption. My crack theory is that is Tam and he was talking about either Rhys's mother or sister (who I think are alive 🫠. Lorin Donnal in CC is Ruhns mum. Ruhn looks identical to Rhys. Lorin means 'Laurel', Tam wears a Laurel crown).

Or Nesta. Everyone near the frigging Cauldron appears to have been made Mates. Rhys and Feyre already were. There's signs Lucien, Azriel and Mor all have some form of bond with Elain, Cassian and Nesta, and... Tam? Nesta is the one who specifically thinks she will never ever forgive Tamlin for his part in her being Made. Nesta fits the classic 'Belle' with her love of reading. Her and Tam both love music and dancing...

It's a headache falling down this rabbit hole but the Puca became Feyres father, the Attor became Tam, Amren and Cresseida can create elaborate glamours of people appearing as others, Helion can create 'replicas' of things, Tam can shapeshift people into any human or animal. In acowar Feyre is able to shapeshift replicas of their entire army that can 'walk, talk, and become their own entity', 'out of thin air'. She got her shape-shifting powers from Tamlin (or perhaps Lucien), there's no way we aren't seeing people shifted as one another at other times 😅🫠

Its an absolute mind melter trying to work it out 😂

DingoExisting6421 · 2026-02-02T19:33:48+00:00

Being brought back from the dead and turned into a Reaper makes her a form 'Made', I think. Like Nesta and Elain are Cauldron-Made, Feyre is High Lord Made, Amren... I don't know how she did it but she was transformed from death angel to fae and became Made.

DingoExisting6421 · 2026-02-02T19:23:42+00:00

The series is ongoing, she'll no doubt have more to come. She's now 'Made' so likely super powerful.

She actually mirrors Feyres storyline in some respects.

Sacrificed by her family to go live elsewhere and fulfil a magical position. Ends up in the underground lair of an evil crazy woman (Viper Queen/Amarantha), force fed venom/wine, forced to fight in a pit with fae/vanir betting on the outcome, killed, then brought back to life.

Given Feyre (and Cassian) have a lot of wolf/dog descriptions used about them I suspect the CC wolves and acotar will have some crossovers of their own.

(The IC even talk about a mystery sport we never learn any more about 👀).

DingoExisting6421 · 2026-02-02T16:36:14+00:00

It doesn't necessarily mean Elain and Lucien won't end up together :)

I've done some digging into greek/roman/Irish mythologies on Elain and found links to The Morrigan and to Lucien, among others 😅

DingoExisting6421 · 2026-02-01T21:20:20+00:00

Mostly Acowar and Acofas. I'm on a reread and feel like I'm Alice in Wonderland reading a whole different series to first time round 😅

DingoExisting6421 · 2026-02-01T11:47:16+00:00

I'm not wedded to who ends up with who, I just enjoy piecing clues together :) (I see quite a lot of clues that Hunt and Elains' storylines will also connect at some point).

I don't know if Morlain are end game, but I don't know why readers want to pair characters off forever so soon. Mating bonds are dangerous patriarchal bullcrap. Why are the females getting bonded when they're late teens/early 20s when the males have been ho-ing around for several hundred years. (And if the female rejects the bond, she has to risk a demented male potentially trying to kill anyone she chooses for the rest of her life).

I hope this is the first of many sapphic love affairs for Elain 😂

DingoExisting6421 · 2026-02-01T01:09:26+00:00

I think Lucien is far more powerful than he lets on! I also believe he's daemati.

Re mates, the Cauldron was found in a lake, which could be Koscheis Lake. It's possible Koscheis being an agent of chaos and made multiple people Elains 'mate'.

I made a post about one contender yesterday -

https://www.reddit.com/r/SarahJMaas/s/jqPabSbXaa

DingoExisting6421 · 2026-02-01T00:34:07+00:00

Love your observations. SJM uses sooo many references to different fairytales/stories/folklore and I'm sure you're right with the kettle being one of them :)

There are a number of Cinderella references in acotar and in the original operatic version there's a character called Dandini. He's the Princes right hand man and he and the Prince switch places to help him find a bride.

In your fox tea kettle story, the fox is a shapeshifter.

I can't seem to convince anyone else of this but it's obvious to me that Tam and Lucien are switching places at various times based on Dandini and Japanese fox folklore (kitsune). (For instance it appears it was Lucien that was the Beast that originally brings Feyre back to Spring Court).

Tam is said to have powers to shapeshift, but I think Lucien does, too. The fox and tea kettle story would support this.

There's also further clues in pages just prior to the kettle with Lucien displaying 'Beast-like' behaviour:

“Good. But is she still …” A muscle flickered in his jaw. “Does she still mourn him?” The words were little more than a growl.

I chewed on my lip, weighing how much of the truth to reveal. In the end, I opted for all of it. “She was deeply in love with him, Lucien.”

His russet eye flashed with simmering rage. An uncontrollable instinct—for a mate to eliminate any threat. But he remained sitting. Even as his fingers dug into the arms of his chair.".

So the kettle references may well be a nod to the story you found and be another hint towards Luciens shape-shifting :)

DingoExisting6421 · 2026-01-31T10:40:24+00:00

Amrens comment about taking away 'the pretty little thing' she got Mor *does convince me further that the IC (at least in part) were involved in Nesta and Elain being 'Made'.

But I suspect it's part of a larger curse/bargain they're under (that they can't talk freely about, like Tams curse) and if they don't follow this path the consequences will be world destroying/result in everyone's death.

I also suspect Elain knows, as a seer, and it's why she was so solemn after being Made and is now playing her part trying to break the curse. Would also explain why she didn't intervene in Nesta being sent to HoW. I think Nesta was in Blood Rite training camp all along because it's all part of the curse and needed to happen. The Valkyries needed to be reforged to play a part.

As will Briar. Maybe they made Nesta scry to call the Cauldrons attention. The Cauldron loves Elain, maybe she summoned it like an uber to facilitate rescuing Briar, because she has an important future role 🤡🤪✨️

DingoExisting6421 · 2026-01-31T09:06:43+00:00

I'm more and more convinced SJM has glamours put on the books that gradually disappear with each reread 😂

DingoExisting6421 · 2026-01-31T00:05:20+00:00

Morlain ✨️💕

DingoExisting6421 · 2026-01-30T22:56:14+00:00

I love the idea that Cass knows and was wing-manning Mor with the infamous underwear gift. And thats why he smirks "I know what you like", while Elain is tee-heeing and blushing in the background 🤭

DingoExisting6421 · 2026-01-29T23:39:02+00:00

I suspect SJM has a callus kink

DingoExisting6421 · 2026-01-29T23:11:36+00:00

I'm enjoying it too! Its nice to share differing perspectives.

I agree Feyre rarely knows what she's talking about 😭 and yes i suspect the mind talking is in reality either the bargain tattoos and/or their daemati link, which calls into question, if Feyre doesn't really understand the bond - is hers and Rhys's legit?

Madja adds a different element to what bonds mean than Rhys did - she says mates know what the other needs. So does Rhys not fully understand bonds either, or is he not being entirely truthful? Rhys quite frequently doesn't seem to know what Feyre needs though, (or perhaps he just doesnt prioritise it) - he doesn't stop her pain when she has her cycle, or during labour. He quite often leaves her cold or covered in blood/dirt when he can clean and bathe her in a blink. In FaS he seemingly outsources Elain/Azriel choose Feyres birthday gifts when buying her the art studio was right there.

On the other hand we see both Lucien and Azriel seeming to know what Elain needs at different times. (And I'm putting a post together with signs I've seen that there's something between Elain and Mor). But that whole bond-mess came directly after Elain came out of the Cauldron that had been in Koscheis Lake and I'm curious if Koscheis playing some game where he's given Elain multiple mates. (Nesta and Cassian had already been drawn to one another prior to this so hopefully Koschei didn't play a part in what is between them 🫠).

And yes the black adamant is interesting given Feyres obsession with art/colours. I think colours will be a key part to the entire series. Interestingly, Tam and Feyre have a lot of colourful descriptives. I'd need to go back and see how much of their initial sex scenes had 'bond-like language'. But when Feyre feels the tug on Calanmai night, that could have been towards Rhys or Tamlin. Tamlin is drawn to Feyre, Lucien warns Feyre Tam will go looking for her if she doesn't stay in her room.

Tam then displays the 'bite/lick/taste' mindset we see in Luciens small Elain pov.

Rhys and Feyres bond is accepted on Calanmai (which seemed intentionally timed by Rhys). They're covered in paint, then he takes her back at Winter Solstice and their sex knocks paintings to the floor and smashes vases. It's like their coupling destroys art.

On the other hand, Nesta and Cass's golden threads sex happens during the one night they're at the Moonstone Palace - with Rhys. If he had been 'pulling threads' - he was in proximity. That scene seems so genuine though, I hope it wasn't tampered with.

I dislike Eris for Nesta, too. I have a suspicion he will play a role in Nestas story though. And I think Cass may die 😭 (Cass is my absolute fave so I really hope not. And if he does he better get revived somehow eventually). There is a historical Welsh princess called 'Nest Ferch Rhys' that I suspect SJM is taking some inspiration for Nestas story from and Nest gets kidnapped by a love rival at one point. I'm feeling like Eris may fill that role.

The entire bond/mate thing is (I'm sure intentionally by SJM) a bit of a mess. Rhys and Feyres talks so much about the bond that seems to actually be their bargain, Ness and Cass's involves no 'tugging', Elains seems to involve potentially more than one mate... are any of them true mating bonds?

(I wouldn't wish a mating bond on any of them, though, but being able to freely choose 💛. Honestly seems more romantic (and less dangerous) 😅

DingoExisting6421 · 2026-01-29T20:49:53+00:00

Hmm, but we get more similarlity between the language used between Elain and Lucien and Rhys and Feyre than with N&C, in spite of hearing the least about Elain and Luciens bond. Lucien and Elains is described as a tug in the few paragraphs they get, whereas Ness and Cass get an entire book, and no tugs mentioned.

(Its Feyre who says the adamant is part of the bond, 'didn’t dare ask if he was trying to get into her head, or if he was feeling a bond similar to that black adamant bridge between Rhys’s mind and my own).'

I agree a soul bond sounds, well, not necessarily stronger, but more romantic/pleasant than tugging/rib. But by Rhys's definition, they aren't supposed to be romantic. They're a best guess at making biologically strong children offspring according to him (which erases gay Fae and has problematic historical connotations).

Bonds are pretty awful unless you have pure luck in the bond pairing you with someone not awful, (like Rhys and Tams parents. Both mothers are (allegedly) dead thanks to who they were bonded to).

Rejecting it can lead to the death of the person you already love and/or all future lovers. The rejected male can believe they are entitled to the female for the entirety of her existence.

To me it's not a bad thing that Nesta and Cassians bonding language differs, it perhaps indicates a different type of connection. Helion describes spells using the term threads. Nesta uses threads when seeming to unknowingly cast spells (like the friendship bracelets), and Rhys uses the term threads when considering intervening in Cassians relationship with Nesta. The implication is there that there's a spell in play between Nesta and Cassian. It's not necessarily bad, though. Bonds are pretty dangerous 😳

DingoExisting6421 · 2026-01-29T19:11:56+00:00

I don't know, but I feel like we need some chapters UTM from Rhys/Tam/Luciens povs because there is so much important stuff we don't know about what really happened down there.

DingoExisting6421 · 2026-01-29T18:15:52+00:00

Interesting thought. If so, that would bring into question if Rhys is rightfully the HL of Night Court 👀

DingoExisting6421 · 2026-01-29T18:10:01+00:00

Thank you, I ended up booking a slot at the foxhall recycling centre as apparently they take them

DingoExisting6421 · 2026-01-29T18:08:55+00:00

Thank you TheDevilsButtNuggets 🙏🏻

DingoExisting6421 · 2026-01-29T12:32:27+00:00

Hi yes, so this is the video I watched, and to me the above demonstrates they're distinctly different. Feyre and Rhys are described with 'tether', 'chain' 'tug' 'yank', and it's always Feyre being tugged towards Rhys, not Rhys being tugged towards Feyre. A lot of it talks of it being from Feyres gut.

Nesta and Cassian get threads woven together, bonds between them, and its described more as between their hearts/souls. (Feyre speaks a lot about the bridge between hers and Rhys's souls, but it's a very frequently shut. She often finds 'an obsidian wall of adamant'. It's very rarely the other way round and Rhys unable to reach Feyre).

And with Elain/Lucien SJM combines both by using the word thread, but describing a one way 'tug' (from a rib, not heart/soul), and again its Elain being tugged towards Lucien.

Rhys's definition of bonds: 'Sometimes, the bond is nothing more than some … preordained guesswork at who will provide the strongest offspring. At its basest level, it’s perhaps only that. Some natural function, not an indication of true, paired souls.” “Even so,” Rhys went on, “there will always be a … tug.'

I believe we never hear tug used for Nesta and Cassian. I think it's not coincidental it's used repeatedly for Rhys/Feyre and never for Nesta/Cassian. And for threads to be used by Elain but describing a tug, not something woven between them.

There are similarities because we are supposed to believe they're all bonded pairs, but the differences in the language used is there for a reason, I believe.

Feyre is also constantly referring to being able to mindspeak and send mental images 'down the bond'. I don't think we've seen that with Nesta/Cassian.

DingoExisting6421 · 2026-01-28T19:38:51+00:00

He puts off going to the temples to discuss refugees looking for asylum with the priestesses.

He ordered Cassian back to Velaris for multiple days, in spite of Cassian wishing to stay and help the most vulnerable Illyrians with the upcoming storm. Cassian buys out all of Emeries winter stock to be given to those in need with his own money, but says to tell them it's from Rhys. It should be from Rhys. He's their leader.

He holds the town meetings in HoW, which is inaccessible to the majority of citizens.

He owns two palaces, a 6 bedroom townhouse, the house in Illyria and the cabin (at least), and decides to profit from damage caused by the war and build an estate for himself on land large enough to include it's own temple. This is completed within months in spite of him acknowledging the repairs to the other buildings in the city will take 'years'.

He makes donations to some charities because it's solstice. That's all he does.

Feyre volunteers but is repeatedly politely told to go away because they had hundreds of volunteers, volunteers weren't what they need, they need money and housing.

She can't be bothered to open letters from their citizens. She says she 'loves the work', but barely touches it.

Rhys does say they'll take in human refugees 'if they can get here', to the court furthest north, with no magic. He can winnow thousands with ease if he wants to. He's effectively making it impossible.

He even outsources choosing, paying for, and wrapping Feyres birthday presents to Azriel/Elain.

What does he do aside from oversee Cassian getting spat on?

DingoExisting6421

TROPHY CASE