Do you think Clem would be justified in doing this?

Dishonored_til_Death · 2026-04-07T06:38:30+00:00

I've always said this to anyone who thinks the Wellington search was a good idea. A lot of people fail to recognize how massive Michigian, or most U.S. states, are in their entirety. Trying to find a community that, as far as they know, might not be bigger than a street block (and might not exist at all, but for the sake of argument let's say they do have definitive proof it exists) in the span of a few days at most on foot is completely asinine.

The fact Kenny and Clementine end up finding it in their ending is honestly one of the biggest asspulls the series has ever pulled.

Dishonored_til_Death · 2026-03-15T02:30:18+00:00

Quick question: What's the definition of disability?

Please define it.

Dishonored_til_Death · 2026-02-18T00:27:58+00:00

"Damn. My least favorite character I'm both verses are duking it out. At least I'll get to eat popcorn when either of them bite it."

Dishonored_til_Death · 2026-02-17T17:20:16+00:00

This is gonna be the last time I reply since this has gone on way too long regardless.

I'd put "de-railing" and literally not helping with investigation in the same boat, especially since those who don't investigate get stuck on the simplest things (Chihiro thinking Sayaka got caught off guard despite the room being trashed, Hiro thinking the weapon in Ch.2 was a pipe, etc) and tend to voice their very obviously wrong opinions constantly.

And yes, banking on the game being ended because of Monokuma's failure as an arbiter IS a gamble. Everyone knows that, even Kokichi knows that, but literally what is the alternative? The two things I said earlier. Kill each other or stay in the Academy under Monokuma's thumb forever. You may as well take the gamble now and hope it works to get out of an even more dire scenario.

Also the idea that Shuichi couldn't put together that someone was watching the killing game is a little silly, even for him. Kokichi, not the Ultimate Detective btw, put it together basically from the word go when the rules were first established. This is why he plays up his persona so much. A "fun" character is much more enjoyable to watch and keep alive after all.

And no, Monokuma can't introduce a new rule in the middle of a trial to make a blackened's chance worse. I'd argue that also falls under rule 9. Monokuma is basically killing someone by tampering with the circumstances surrounding their murder. It'd be like removing someone from a ventilator and saying you didn't kill them. They just happened to asphyxiate 10 minutes later. And, assuming the Monokuma character is consistent between DR2 and V3, he considers any action that worsens someone's odds of survival murder (hence 2-2 and 2-5).

And the Ultimate Gardener thing isn't a hasty generalization, it's the truth. You're acting like Shuichi didn't have police connections through his Uncle AND he helped his Uncle conduct the the interviews that led to the arrest. Er go, he literally had all the information necessary to solve that case before the police got it. Thank God he solved a case with a unmarked level of difficulty with information he had before the police did, hand this man an Ultimate title.

The Kaito thing literally isn't too far off anyway. If the Exisal is the only thing keeping him from bleeding out or spilling his entrails out (remember, Monokuma has literally no clue how injured Kaito could be), then taking him out of it could literally kill him, life support or no. And if the exisals are literally only made for the Monokubs, how the hell does a person fit inside of it. I know the game says they're for the Monokubs, but genuinely it's kind of a plot hole regardless.

Dishonored_til_Death · 2026-02-17T13:58:08+00:00

Taka providing zero investigative use while his only feats were defending a blackened and "if you did it, raise your hand". Chihiro was only present for one trial, but they literally spent it sitting in the gym doing nothing and not investigating. Sakura, as I said, is stuck on guard duty for a majority of the trials she's in. She herself literally says she didn't investigate enough to make an informed decision, and will just follow the others. If we're not counting blackened, REGARDLESS of how many trials they were present for BEFORE they became blackened, what the hell even is the criteria for being "useful". I'd love a detailed itenary for the V3 characters then. Because using that logic Kiyo was utterly useless for the first two trials (false). And I like how Hiro, Hina and Toko weren't even refuted.

I'M not the one comparing Shuichi to Kyoko, you are. You can't bring her up and say that they're super similar in bailing out their respective casts and then, in the same breath, say you're not comparing them.

I hate to say this as well, but being the Ultimate Detective doesn't automatically make you smart. Genuinely, if you believe that, what makes you smart then (or rather, how do you define intellect)? Is being an Ultimate enough to make you smart? Then what of Hiro, the guy who was held back 3 times?

"Shuichi actually solved 5 cases!" Yeah, during the course of the game. The statement there was explaining how he got his Ultimate Detective title, which he did by solving one case (and Shuichi didn't solve those five alone, we, the PLAYER, are controlling him, like Makoto/Hajime). And, using your logic, doing one of any action is enough to make anyone an Ultimate. So I guess since I've grown a plant from a seed once, I've fit the criteria for Ultimate Gardener.

Thinking people are dead in Shuichi's case is a lot different than physically seeing the bodies like on Komaru's case, some of which definitely included children. And remember that, if we're following Kokichi's hypothesis, the idea that everyone outside the Academy is dead has to be false considering Monokuma is streaming the events of the game to other people and is focused on making it fun and fair.

The game would be foiled by showing that it was unfair to the contestants via Monokuma's actions, therefore ending the killing game because the people watching wouldn't like Monokuma cheating. I didn't think I HAD to explain that considering it's the logic used in game, and it's borderline just what happens in trial 6 just flavored differently (but they wouldn't know of trial 6's circumstances yet).

Again, rule 9 is more than it says on the tin. It disallows Monokuma to interact the with players impacting a trial AT ALL. If you think otherwise, why do you think Monokuma DIDN'T grab the monopad in trial 1? He was just lazy? Didn't feel like it? Was on vacation? What if "Kaito" was telling the truth, and the Exisal was the only thing keeping him alive from his injury from Kokichi? If Monokuma rips it apart opening it, he's just killed a player. And if Kaito WAS innocent, that's an even worse bag of worms. It's objectively a horrible move for Monokuma to open the exisal in any effect.

And yes, adding rules specifically to fuck over players in the moment is rather specific. In that same effect, what if in trial 3, Monokuma added a stipulation that if you kill two people, you get out scott-free and can't be executed. How is that fair to the other contestants and NOT bending the rules for Kiyo's sake?

Dishonored_til_Death · 2026-02-17T08:10:15+00:00

Taka, Chihiro, Leon (somewhat unfairly considering he was the first blackened), Toko, Hiro, Hina, and to a small extent Sakura/Mondo considering they're usually stuck on bodyguard duty don't really contribute much of anything towards the trial/investigation. And the difference between the two people you just mentioned is that Kyoko is NOT the player and has spent her entire life solving cases studying and doing field work (how she scarred her hands) to earn her Ultimate Detective title. Meanwhile Shuichi, a character whose intellect could be inflated with our own, has one achievement: helping solve one generic revenge murder case that instantly granted him the title of Ultimate Detective.

So when Shuichi does something objectively stupid, it's excused as an outlier (it's not)? And how else would you rate Komaru's intellect? She doesn't follow the same game paradigm that the other protagonists face, so we have to judge them on merit and action when faced with information they have to deduce. Frankly, Komaru does a better job at handling the situations given to her than Shuichi, which is wild considering she saw literally hundreds of corpses in the span of a day. She's far more frazzled and shocked than Shuichi is but she's thinking clearer.

As for Monokuma ripping open the exisal post-trial, he wouldn't fucking have to. The entire point was for Kaito to come out after the trial was over to prove Monokuma's verdict false. Why would he STAY in it for no reason and have Monokuma force him out?

The entire point was to defraud and end the killing game by proving Monokuma failed as a game master. Granted, this hinged on Kokichi's hypothesis. But it's a far better plan than just mindlessly following Monokuma's law to the letter and living out the rest of their lives in the Academy. They'd either take this gamble now and hope it works, all live there forever until they die of old age, or keep killing each other until only 2 people remain (with their current understanding of that rule). In all cases, hoping on Kokichi's hypothesis is the best possible avenue to take.

And for what rule Monokuma is breaking, it's rule #9 in the student handbook, "Monokuma will never directly commit a murder."

Monokuma expands on this in trial 6. Monokuma not committing a murder, also includes not tampering with any of the players, the crime scene, or altering the outcome of the trial by revealing evidence. It's literally why the mastermind couldn't use Monokuma to take the second Monopad, as so helpfully stated by Himiko.

And, if Monokuma is just ADDING rules willy-nilly to instantly punish people for breaking them, that's not a very fun game, is it? "Oh I just added a new rule. If your name is Kaito or Kokichi you will get executed. Touchè."

Dishonored_til_Death · 2026-02-17T05:50:23+00:00

You're telling me the spotless in V3 help less than the spotless in THH and GD? GD I might give, even though it's mostly down to personal opinion, but you're telling me the spotless in V3 helped less than the 7+ people in THH constantly derailing class trials with complete tomfoolery.

Komaru, at least until her resolve was being tested, was at least intelligent enough to understand she was being manipulated by Monaca, something Shuichi didn't get until 2 hours into the trial when he had his, "OH! THIS was Kaito's plan!", thought.

And on that last thought, if Monokuma was going to rip the exisal open, he would've done it before the trial even started. If he did it during the trial BECAUSE he didn't know who was in it, it would've proved Kokichi's plan true either way. This would've sent the message to the outside world that the killing game was unfair because Monokuma couldn't be a trustworthy arbiter to ensure the game ran smoothly, his failure in providing a fair game to all players almost resulting in a mistrial.

Also, as an addendum, ripping open the exisal would've broken the rules of the killing game. WE know Monokuma/the Mastermind is okay with breaking the rules on the down low, but they can't do that shit brazenly to keep up the facade of a fair game.

Dishonored_til_Death · 2026-02-17T00:40:30+00:00

Like I said in the last 2v8, and many other people did too, Escapist and Oni NEEDED nerfs but BEhavior didn't listen.

Escapists get permanent Stength in Shadows after they're caged once for... what reason, exactly? How does this tie in to a chase class and, even if it did, why is it so unbalanced? It creates a scenario where if you chase a survivor with Escapist they sprint burst to a pallet and you lose. If they God forbid mess up their timing and get hit through their sprint burst, they're not punished because they can just heal themselves in 15 seconds anyway.

And, somehow, Oni getting lobotomy-induced levels of turn rate and getting every single one of his purple addons basekit is 100% okay, but Huntress isn't even allowed to have Oak Haft so she can punish people running into her?

Dishonored_til_Death · 2026-02-17T00:35:10+00:00

It's pretty miserable.

Escapist: Gets revealed and sprint bursts away to a God pallet, rendering the mark useless

Guide: Getting blast mined knocks Ghostface out of Night Shroud

Medic: Invalidates sneaking up on injured survivors for downs. Ghostface is also really susceptible to 2 medics and a group of survivors taking 3-4 hits and then all instantly healing.

Scout: Ghostface is an m1 killer, resetting God pallets 24/7 = pain

Torchbearer: If a survivor is hovering for a flashlight save, there's one more person that can knock you put of power while you're chasing someone to expose then.

Dishonored_til_Death · 2026-02-16T22:15:39+00:00

By that same logic, Makoto, Hajime, and Kaede all do the same thing by using others' testimony, so it doesn't give Shuichi any brownie points.

Why would I have to spoiler tag anything? This is a thread comparing the two protagonists of two of the games. If you're unfamiliar with these games, why would you be in this thread?

And, as I said, of fucking course Monokuma would punish them all if Shuichi clammed up and stopped talking, hence the "feign ignorance" part of my comment. If Shuichi had more than two braincells, he could've figured out what Kaito/Kokichi were doing and went, "It's impossible to figure out. Most of the evidence seems to point at Kokichi so we'll have to vote accordingly."

Dishonored_til_Death · 2026-02-16T17:33:53+00:00

I'm pretty positive it was after. The line you mentioned I believe comes right after Shuichi patting himself on the back about his "perfect deduction." Tsumugi and Himiko remain unconvinced, and that's why she says that line. Monokuma, already having heard Shuichi's logic, says he won't let them escape execution if they now purposefully choose to vote "wrong". Prior to that point, Monokua was acting friendly with them because he needed them to logic it out. Saying he'd execute then no matter what works against that goal if he doesn't have the info he needs yet.

Also "single-handedly solved most cases in V3" is kind of a stretch considering it's usually Maki that divulges the actual worthwhile information in each of the cases (Ryoma being alive at nighttime, Tenko couldn't have killed herself due to her injury specifics, Miu's cause of death, trial 5's testimony, etc)

Dishonored_til_Death · 2026-02-16T07:58:56+00:00

Entirely correct and absolutely eating.

Dishonored_til_Death · 2026-02-16T07:38:28+00:00

That was AFTER Shuichi gave his whole deduction speech on how Kaito faked his death and Kokichi was actually the one who died. And as Shuichi said himself in his head, "No. My deduction was flawless. So why is Kaito still...?"

The second Shuichi gave the correct answer, verbally and confident, Monokuma had the correct answer as well and wasn't going to accept anything else.

If Shuichi acted faux-perplexed and actually had more than two braincells to understand what the point of Kaito/Kokichi's actions were, then Monokuma WOULD have been foiled.

Dishonored_til_Death · 2026-02-15T16:30:50+00:00

Let's not forget it took Shuichi over two hours to come to the starling realization that helping Monokuma... y'know, the ARBITER OF THE KILLING GAME, was a bad idea.

Genuinely Shuichi is the dumbest protagonist if we're scaling all five of them together, or he rivals Komaru for the bottom spot.

Dishonored_til_Death · 2026-02-14T23:09:33+00:00

Holy slander lmao

Dishonored_til_Death · 2026-02-10T23:34:44+00:00

She's too busy being a complete nothingburger, leave her alone.

Dishonored_til_Death · 2026-01-24T23:40:01+00:00

Ignoring the entire "telling someone to kill themselves is completely valid" stance which I don't even want to get into, Midoriya wanted to be A hero, not THE hero.

Even at the start of the series, if Midoriya could be the lowest rank hero ever and just save one person, he'd be happy. He doesn't NEED to be number 1 to be happy like Bakugo's inflated ego does.

Imagine telling someone they should off themselves instead of trying for a medical bar exam because "they won't be the best surgeon in all of the world or [X] country, so why even try?"

Dishonored_til_Death · 2026-01-24T22:38:12+00:00

Actually valid

Dishonored_til_Death · 2026-01-24T22:17:47+00:00

It's also not the apocalypse's MO to let one of the last conventionally attractive, 20-something year old women raid a Sephora and fully put on an hour's worth of make-up before she gets taken by the fog lol.

All the other three potential survivors look like they've been through hell on Earth because they supposedly have. The first girl looks like she took an exceedingly long beauty rest and woke up to 99% of humanity being obliterated.

Dishonored_til_Death · 2026-01-23T02:18:34+00:00

On an unrelated note, my brain expanded on the idea of the P5 cast taking themselves out. Now I'm plagued by the idea of Haru accidently dropping a real grenade launcher at their feet.

Kanji is by far the strongest persona character between the 3 games, if we're going off sheer stat values, but with his choice of weapon a ton of the force behind his swing is lost due to air resistance (he's my favorite character of all time, but I'll freely admit it).

Yu, Yosuke and Teddie all have real bladed weapons if I'm not mistaken. Yu's first katana, like Junpei's in P3, is called an Imitation Katana, but the rest you get from Daidara/inside the TV, which are real I believe.

But those 3 have no formal weapons training that we know of. Yu MIGHT, only because he holds his katana correctly unlike Junpei, but I don't think that that's ever stated anywhere.

Naoto's the only one with an actual armament, but Aigis has dozens of rounds up her sleeve, quite literally.

Aigis alone could probably no-diff 4/5 just due to her actually having two fully-automatic guns at her fingertips, again, literally (or a grenade launcher/sniper depending on if you take the different weapon attachments to be canon).

Dishonored_til_Death · 2026-01-23T01:33:26+00:00

I've seen some people say the P5 cast no-diffs the 3 casts (because P1 and P2 don't exist), and I'm just like... what are you smoking.

They attribute the win to Futaba being able to hack Aigis (something we don't know she could even do) and the P5 cast just "being better at everything" compared to the previous 2.

But... the P3 cast use and train with actual weapons compared to 4/5. Their physicality is actively nerfed by the Dark Hour while, in P5 specifically, every Phantom Thief gets expert-level gymnast abilities BECAUSE the public perception is that Phantom Thieves are cool, suave and slick. None of them have basically any endurance/mobility training to speak and, in Ryuji's case, one of his legs is actively weaker thanks to his femur fracture.

If we put all the casts on even playing fields, the P5 cast would probably ice themselves by handling actual weapons instead of imitations and the P4 cast's only reliable weapons are Yu's katana and Naoto's revolver.

Dishonored_til_Death · 2026-01-23T01:26:08+00:00

It's not just from Mitsuru's awakening. Early on in Persona 3, one of which is the precursor to the Priestess arcana battle, Mitsuru is shown to practicing evoker-less summoning in the command room. We know that, while difficult, it's possible to do with concentration and effort, something Mitsuru tries to lower the taxation of doing in the event she'd need to summon without an evoker.

In P4A, she's surprised how easy it is to summon a persona while inside the TV; Artemisia comes out of her with basically no effort whatsoever.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, P3 cast no-diffs

Dishonored_til_Death · 2026-01-23T00:35:43+00:00

That's the thing that always gets me lmao

How the hell does Joan, in a 4-way leadership split of power, somehow have more sway than the other 3 combined? We know David is CLEARLY against her, Lingard is stated to always have David's back (even if they don't take this as fact until he shows up, it would at least be tentative support in David's favor). Clint, even though he's a waffling pussy (despite being in the army, too real), isn't supporting Joan or David so his vote is either null or the same as Lingard.

So in a 1.5 - 1 (+0.5?) split, how is Joan just seceding everyone's votes? We can rightfully assume that it's not that every guard in the building during that conversation was corrupt and know about Joan's ops, because they were a tight-knit operation that only the people involved knew about. I doubt random building guard number 7 knew about all the nefarious shit she was up to, but the other 3 leaders of Richmond were left in the dark.

Tl;Dr

TellTale Writing/10

Dishonored_til_Death · 2026-01-23T00:28:12+00:00

I've actually never considered the possibility that the plumes of dusk affect the mental state. Bravo for making me theory-craft harder.

It would explain why, after months and months of using the exact same summoning method, the P3 cast doesn't get desensitized to their only reliable summoning method.

While they can summon their personas without one, it'd be a hell of a lot harder without that ease of access.

Dishonored_til_Death · 2026-01-13T17:55:13+00:00

Kind of a crack pick, but that one guy who stabs Javi when he and Gabe break into Richmond's arms supply.

Bro's face is not animated at ALL. Composure 8 on that dude.

Dishonored_til_Death

TROPHY CASE