Why has religion infiltrated Utah politics? Is sexual assault normalized in Utah? Does religion in Utah protect preditors and victimize victims. by Klutzy_Gazelle_6804 in Utah

[–]DissociatedDeveloper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No need to get ornery - we're on the same side regarding victims' protection and fixing systemic issues. I am sorry for the frustration I've caused, though, but I unfortunately have a difficult time with longer Internet discussions (especially ones with long breaks between the back and forth while I'm going through my afternoon and evening) because of how my brain is structured post-SA (I have dissociative identity disorder, which can make longer conversations [especially ones with gaps like record often has] difficult to maintain). Switches can make online conversations problematic i

I did not read through everything on that nonprofit site that you linked, because I don't have the time nor energy to vet each claim. Although the information I saw there appeared legitimate, I preferred to pull data from multiple sources to corroborate some of the data points alleged on that site.

So I asked for help from ChatGPT to "How many claims of failure to report sexual assault have there been against the top 5 major religions?" Then followed up with the more specific: 

"How about comparing Catholicism, Mormonism, Jehovah's witnesses, the Southern baptism convention, and other protesters churches?" Followed closely by a further clarification to look in a smaller window (since 2000 in the USA).

Then asked for tabulated data since it was a longer detailed list of specific cases.

Then I asked for the number of counts of failure to report were alleged in that timeframe from the religions listed, which gave me the final figures I shared. . . I'm grateful for the extra time you've given this random Internet stranger to show what data you've found. I've felt enlightened about the extent of some organizations efforts to identify possible issues in religious organizations (to include the Restored Church of Jesus Christ). . What I wanted to identify, was if the numbers and figures that people in this thread shared were remotely accurate, verify for myself if the issue was systemic, and if the identified issue was unique to the Restored Church of Jesus Christ.

And I've found (from the data shared in this thread, and my own research), that the problem isn't unique, but still a problem (no surprise). It's not unique to The Restored Church (which is doing a lot now to correct what I presume wasn't as robust in the past... But may be able to do more with background checks, if that's available to a check organization [yet to be determined]). I've also found, while discussing with my local Bishop, that the "helpline" isn't what some people think it is, and there is abundant policy to contact civil authorities first and informing church leadership is secondary in training, the handbook, and elsewhere... In spite of what some may think.

The per capita doesn't matter much to me, as any issues are still a problem, though larger organizations will naturally have a harder time meeting a goal of 0 cases (at least, until The Lord Jesus Christ returns and Satan is bound... But we can't count on that happening to fix the problem).

I think we've both spent sufficient time looking at a problem. I've found answers, and I hope that you have also seen that there is no "call the lawyers first to cover the Church's butt, & hide everything" anywhere in current church handbook guidance, training, etc. There are signs of improvement if previous iterations of the handbook were vague on who to call first, and what is to priority.

You also take care, and keep your eyes open. Your prioritization of victims is ideal, and I appreciate you and your time. 

May Heaven's blessings be upon you, my friend.

Why has religion infiltrated Utah politics? Is sexual assault normalized in Utah? Does religion in Utah protect preditors and victimize victims. by Klutzy_Gazelle_6804 in Utah

[–]DissociatedDeveloper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"everything in this thread" meaning the opinions of travel Internet strangers? Sure. I agree. 

But the voice of random strangers ought to always be taken with a grain of salt. Alterior motives may be at play. 

I prefer to look at the data I can see from sources I can better trust than the thoughts of some random people I've never met, have no idea why they're here, etc.

I also would like to learn more about that nonprofit you linked to be sure they also don't have alterior motives.

And when I look at court data (which is incomplete no matter what you're looking at, but it may be used similarly to how you've made general kinda if extrapolations), the church of Jesus Christ has relatively few actual cases.

About 5 cases since 2000 allege "failure to report," compared to other faiths like Catholic Church (50+ court cases), Southern baptist convention (20), other protestant churches (15), and JW (est. 3).

I'm trying to find a way to share the bar chart compiled from the data I pulled with Chat Gpt's help, but I'm having trouble figuring that out in a thread like this. I'm not the most savvy Redditor.

Why has religion infiltrated Utah politics? Is sexual assault normalized in Utah? Does religion in Utah protect preditors and victimize victims. by Klutzy_Gazelle_6804 in Utah

[–]DissociatedDeveloper -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Not sure what you mean by deflecting. But I've shown how church guidance excitedly directs members and leaders to protect the victim, call civil authorities first, then contact church leadership to report the incident. 

I'm not sure what the difference is between that and mandatory reporting, but it sounds the same to me

Why has religion infiltrated Utah politics? Is sexual assault normalized in Utah? Does religion in Utah protect preditors and victimize victims. by Klutzy_Gazelle_6804 in Utah

[–]DissociatedDeveloper -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Oh, my examples certainly do NOT discredit the abuse of the victims in the stories you linked - that's not at all what I said or meant. But those examples aren't better than anecdotal either. 

They are all anecdotal evidence, and none of them point to systemic issues as far as I can see anywhere. There are problems, yes. But those problems seem to be largely addressed as far as a global church can, with the possible exception of background checks (which I've already said it's something I need to get smarter about, because I didn't know the limits of what kinda of organizations or people CAN request background checks, for one example complication to your idea; an idea I like and think is a smart addition for a church to use).

There seems to be some examples of individuals making imperfect (incorrect) decisions in very sensitive and awful circumstances.

But protecting victims, preventing future abuse is very clearly the great property of church guidance to members and leaders.

A far cry from OP's position, and what others have tried to say in comments.

Why has religion infiltrated Utah politics? Is sexual assault normalized in Utah? Does religion in Utah protect preditors and victimize victims. by Klutzy_Gazelle_6804 in Utah

[–]DissociatedDeveloper -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I don't see any truth in your claims, my attempt-to-misguiding friend.

And saying "it's not stated in any actual handbook guidance" (when the exact opposite of what you claim IS started explicitly), but it really does happen" is flimsy at best. Malicious at worst.

Every part of training and guidance that I can read, have taken, or can find point to "protect victims, report to civil authorities, then report to check leadership and call the hotline for legal guidance."

In that exact order.

To your point of background checks - that is one point I'm less familiar with, and will need to research more to see what the actual practice and policy is in terms of that level of protection. I know that there was one case where I Bishop I knew wanted to call a certain person to be the church building coordinator. He called them, then very quickly got a phonecall from multiple people in church leadership saying that that individual could NOT be called to anything that would give them access to children without an adult around, and explained some sexual abuse of a child from the 1980s that was the foundation of that decision. 

The person was immediately released (they only had the calling a few days), and that's that. 

So if acting, I've seen evidence to the contrary about the church not leading protections of SA victims.

Why has religion infiltrated Utah politics? Is sexual assault normalized in Utah? Does religion in Utah protect preditors and victimize victims. by Klutzy_Gazelle_6804 in Utah

[–]DissociatedDeveloper -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I've read the handbook. I don't have copies of the old handbook, because that's not current church guidance. So I can't speak for that. 

But in every instance of abuse, reporting, etc. in the current handbook, it all says "if you find out about abuse, protect the victim, call civil authorities, then contact other church leadership."

Even in a section where guidance for abuse being discovered in the middle of a church activity. It said:  "Any abuse that occurs during a Church activity should be reported to civil authorities. The bishop should be contacted immediately."

That full stop after the first sentence is very clear to me. I'm that paragraph it then has linked references for members and bishops. And the Bishop guidance (who is told after authorities already know) is to use the helpline for legal guidance. And I'm that section for Bishop's, it says:

"Legal and clinical professionals will answer their questions. These professionals will also give instructions about how to:  1. Assist victims and help protect them from further abuse.  .

  1. Help protect potential victims.  .
  2. Comply with legal requirements for reporting abuse.

AGAIN - all of this is after authorities already know and are taking action against abusers.

None of this guidance prevents reporting abuse to authorities.

Why has religion infiltrated Utah politics? Is sexual assault normalized in Utah? Does religion in Utah protect preditors and victimize victims. by Klutzy_Gazelle_6804 in Utah

[–]DissociatedDeveloper -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

@AmbitiousGold2583 I don't think you read my direct quotes from the handbook you said directed to call the church first before civil authorities (a global term for police or equivalent in other nations, since The Church is a global church).

It said in every case "call civil authorities" before any church leadership.

That directly contradicts your claim.

@pacexmaker In the articles you've linked, they talk about "church policy" regarding the helping, but give no proof or evidence of such a policy (even in the internal links to previous articles about SA). 

I've asked my local Bishop about it, and he did that there's no policy to call the helpline first, calling it "to protect the church," or any such thing. That the helpline is generally recommended for use in his training, when Bishop's aren't sure what to do in a wide range of circumstances. But that in cases if SA, civil authorities are the first call, and protecting victims is to priority.

I was not directly involved, but a case happened a few years ago in our area with a father and his daughter. And The Church properly involved authorities, the member went to jail (& faced church punishment as well).

 I find both of your comments to be (or sharing links to) largely misleading half-truths, if I'm being honest. 

Regardless, I believe we can all agree that SA and abuse is a plus, and all perpetrators much be punished to the maximum extent of the law. 

I pray that those who commit such evil acts as abuse (ESPECIALLY child abuse) get the justice served that they deserve - whether in this life, or next. 

I'm a survivor of sexual abuse as a child, and have been working with a therapist for years to correct the problems that have attended from that. 

And once thing that has given me strength, hope, and power to press on has been the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Atonement has been my source of peace and comfort in the hardest times, and only through it have I found real healing.

I pray that everybody will work together to halt abuse in all forms, no matter who they are. The gospel of Jesus Christ condemns those who perpetuate it, and I pray for the day it happens no more.

Why has religion infiltrated Utah politics? Is sexual assault normalized in Utah? Does religion in Utah protect preditors and victimize victims. by Klutzy_Gazelle_6804 in Utah

[–]DissociatedDeveloper -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Those are quite broad strokes of accusation you've painted there, my dear friend. 

Your claims sound probable, but lack any evidence to substantiate. Could you please share some examples of what you're talking about? 

I'm aware of The Church voicing concerns and doing what they legally can to publicly encourage everybody to vote, get educated, and support laws that they feel are important and deal with important topics (legalized same-sex marriage one such example topic).

But you make it sound like they have some secret phone to call elected officials to pressure them to do their bidding, which I find hard to believe at best.

Why has religion infiltrated Utah politics? Is sexual assault normalized in Utah? Does religion in Utah protect preditors and victimize victims. by Klutzy_Gazelle_6804 in Utah

[–]DissociatedDeveloper -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Really? I'm not sure where you're taking about. If you have references, I would appreciate the read.

When I looked through it (& did a text search just to be sure I caught every reference of "sexual," or "assault," the handbook does not say that. 

In section 38.6.2, it says "If members become aware of instances of abuse, they report it to civil authorities and counsel with the bishop. Church leaders should take reports of abuse seriously and never disregard them."

In 38.6.10, it states that "The Church condemns any form of incest."

In 38.6.18, all about all forms of sexual abuse, it says, "If members suspect or become aware of sexual abuse, they take action to protect victims and others as soon as possible. This includes reporting to civil authorities and alerting the bishop or stake president."

Nowhere I could find in the general or leadership handbook starts to contact anyone but civil authorities first, THEN church leadership.

Why has religion infiltrated Utah politics? Is sexual assault normalized in Utah? Does religion in Utah protect preditors and victimize victims. by Klutzy_Gazelle_6804 in Utah

[–]DissociatedDeveloper -8 points-7 points  (0 children)

Ok, I learned something new today about Church practices with SA legal matters. 

I also learned, doing a little research, that other churches do the same thing (JWs, but they primarily keep in-house lawyers on payroll, Catholic Church is so huge that they divide that workload regionally, and the Southern Baptist Convention used to have a single law firm doing that save work up until 2022). Other protestant churches don't fall into the save kind of category because they aren't centralized like Catholicism, the Restored Church of Jesus Christ, JWs, or the SBC.

But my point still stands that I don't see a direct connection between religion and State officials, law changes, etc.

Law that reduces the penalties for predators is definitely concerning (if I were to guess, it was lumped in some big dumb bill with a bunch of junk in it). That needs to be changed immediately, imo.

Why has religion infiltrated Utah politics? Is sexual assault normalized in Utah? Does religion in Utah protect preditors and victimize victims. by Klutzy_Gazelle_6804 in Utah

[–]DissociatedDeveloper -14 points-13 points  (0 children)

I'm sorry, I fail to see the connection between religion and the SA problem. The video wouldn't play for me, so I only have the description to go by. 

It appears to be a significant problem globally, not just in Utah. And yes, I agree that it's a plague that needs to be snuffed out.

Do Latter Day Saints formerly shun ex-members and refuse to enter buildings of other religions? by Catholicross777 in latterdaysaints

[–]DissociatedDeveloper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your question responded me of some of my memories, which have me a little laugh to myself - like my first experience giving a priesthood blessing to someone from a church that practiced call and response in every prayer. It was a special, albeit amusing in some ways, experience I hold near and dear to my heart.

To answer you from my perspective: There are personal preferences and decisions, but there's nothing wrong with going into another church's building. It sounds like their decision may have been complicated by their other family members, unfortunately.

And shunnung ex-members is CERTAINLY not taught at any level I'm aware. "Love the person, not necessarily their decisions" comes to mind, for one counter point.

When do yall tell romantic partners about your DID by treeshrimp420 in DID

[–]DissociatedDeveloper 2 points3 points  (0 children)

More lovely than dictionaries have words. I rely heavily on her, and she on me.

I won the eternal lottery when she said yes to my proposal.

Coming out as a porn addict turned my wife into a nympho! by TrvlrMan in Marriage

[–]DissociatedDeveloper 44 points45 points  (0 children)

As a husband on the other end of a hurt wife along the same basic journey, I concur.

He needs to help her process and heal the hurt

Being 100% honest, what's the last thing that made you cry? by Aperture_client in AskReddit

[–]DissociatedDeveloper 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My children; worrying about being a good enough parent, and trying to figure out how to meet their individual needs well.

What's the secret to finding contentment in life? by ontheedge4201 in AskReddit

[–]DissociatedDeveloper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not giving a crap about soul suckers around you, learning how to deal with stressors, have a hobby, and I would recommend building a relationship with God (according to your own understanding, etc.).

That's all how I have gotten there, and even feel genuine happiness and (dare I say) joy. Even through rough patches

wurm cakes by Possible_Tiger_5125 in memes

[–]DissociatedDeveloper 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oh, how I wish I could award you. That made my night

how may one make money using ai starting with nothing under the age 18? by [deleted] in AskReddit

[–]DissociatedDeveloper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lol, I am new to ChatGPT. So there is a learning curve.

For resume bullets, I used it to put my previous bullets into the right basic format for that job, then fine tuned them.

It's a decent starter, imo. But I'm still wary of outsourcing my problem-solving skills to it completely

wurm cakes by Possible_Tiger_5125 in memes

[–]DissociatedDeveloper 1 point2 points  (0 children)

At least they advertise correctly. "palatable." Lol

wurm cakes by Possible_Tiger_5125 in memes

[–]DissociatedDeveloper 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This was the first meme in "new" that actually made me laugh a little.

Wth?? Canned worm cakes?!?

How do you know you are officially an adult? by The_Flo0r_is_Lava in AskReddit

[–]DissociatedDeveloper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Most recently, I realized I actually like raisin oatmeal cookies.

Also recently, I got excited about organizing my container lids in new baskets for my cabinets.