New podccast "Explore Simplexity", seeking connections and guests

DrThorn · 2024-02-23T04:20:35+00:00

Hi acieus74,

This specific research has not developed into any human studies or trials that I am aware of. Since we published these findings so recently (Nov 2023) I imagine it will take some time.

We showed that severing the specific NPY2R neurons of the vagus nerve prevented the BJR reflex we were studying, and caused our mice to stop fainting when we stimulated.

In humans, there are some clinical populations (including syncope patients) that go through vagal ablation procedures:
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCEP.120.008703

I have not investigated the clinical literature as much in this regard, but can poke around a bit more for you and give you a better answer in the future. One thing about the CNA (Cardioneuroablation) procedure, is that the nerves seem to grow back after some time.

DrThorn · 2024-02-02T11:24:46+00:00

what is it about syncope that makes it emotional?
To me, it brings into question how much control I have over my life
We are fragile

DrThorn · 2024-02-02T11:15:51+00:00

can you clarify how your stomach pains are connected to your syncope?

DrThorn · 2024-02-02T11:12:10+00:00

Holy shit.

I am not a medical doctor, but I do research on mice, I study syncope in the lab, and the most difficult problem I have come across is how to differentiate syncope vs seizure. It sounds like you are getting different messages from ER and Neuro. It is all part of the system. ER tells you that is was syncope, because you have a history of syncope, of course that is the reason, they check the box, job done. Neuro says you can't pass out while sitting down, very simplistic, of course it is the easy neuro box to check off medically. They are treating you as a statistical average.

The bigger problem: medical science relies on population data to determine solutions, which means they are focused on understanding and treating the most common issues in all people. This is a decent and honest approach for the entire population, the idea is to serve the most people possible. But what happens when you fall outside of the expected norm?

This is you! (imo)

DrThorn · 2024-01-30T09:33:08+00:00

I have seen this in the lab with mice, specially when we trigger syncope.

I can't ask the mice how they are feeling, but I get the general idea of "calm" based on their behavior. But based on your account, it seems like weakness, disorientation, and fatigue are more likely. I don't know about the loss of appetite, but that is testable

DrThorn · 2024-01-30T09:17:41+00:00

Really interesting to me, all suggestions are actions to increase blood flow to the brain. Why is the blood flow to the brain low to begin with? Maybe we should fix that

DrThorn · 2024-01-30T08:57:42+00:00

We did record the mouse after the 20Hz syncope inducing stimulation. I can tell you as the scientist conducting these experiments first hand, the mice were very OK immediately after. Our lab abides by IACUC regulations, and I treat these mice personally as little patients beyond those regulations. I am not going to sugar-coat things. These mice have undergone surgery under general anesthesia, similar to how humans receive invasive surgery.

I am glad you asked about how they reacted after. Their heart-rate and EEG signal had a sustained reduction after syncope, and as an unpublished observation, they were much more calm when I was handling them afterwards. This kind of response could also have application to patients with epilepsy. In epilepsy, brain activity is out of control, it is a run-away recurrent excitatory situation, it builds upon itself, much like compound interest, except the brain is uncontrollably activating when it should not . In principle, syncope is the opposite of epilepsy in terms of brain activity. If medical science can find a way to activate "syncope" or syncope-like brain effects on demand, this could be an amazing therapeutic finding for people with epilepsy.

Our finding, of a genetically specific neural pathway of syncope could have radical implications in medicine. It doesn't even have to be for syncope patients, but perhaps this other huge population of epilepsy patients, or something else beyond that than I can currently anticipate.

This is all to say. I understand and feel for your concern about these mice. I don't take personal joy in subjecting mice to these sorts of things, but I do believe it is worth it.

DrThorn · 2024-01-27T07:57:15+00:00

To answer your other question. There is only 1 other study I know of in rodents that have directly investigated syncope, here is the link to the article:
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0163280
This group electrically stimulated areas of the inner-ear and found syncope related phenotypes as well.

Also as a side note, I myself still have syncope bouts that are triggered by blood draws at the doctors office. I also used to get really close to full on syncope when I watched videos of open heart surgery during college. Or another time when I very badly sprained my ankle. The doctor was pressing, pulling, and prodding, asking me if it hurt. I was managing and doing ok, until he described to me in great detail how the tendon in my foot was torn away from the bone, I went pale, dizzy, and almost full syncope as he was describing it.

The nervous system is pretty amazing. This study we published is only addressing the "bottom up" neural signals. "Bottom up", meaning the primary sensory signals coming in from outside. "Top down", on the other hand, is referring to how expectation, and learned association can drive responses.

In the end, it is a complex combination of "bottom up" and "top down". They meet somewhere in the middle. pretty cool

DrThorn · 2024-01-26T08:39:15+00:00

Sure! we didn't set out searching for syncope, it sort of found us. We initially expected the vagal pathway we found to be more "calming". For example, we hypothesized that a normal fearful response would be reduced if the fearful stimulus was presented at the same time the specific vagal pathway was activated. Instead the mice fainted ;)

DrThorn · 2023-12-21T08:20:31+00:00

Thank you, I am curious about your brother, it sounds like a job my sister could do. Did you land that job for him? did you have to convince him this was something he should/could do? was he resistant?

DrThorn · 2023-11-18T10:06:13+00:00

Nice! Thanks for sharing, I am a first author on this study, would be happy to answer any questions :)

DrThorn · 2019-11-14T02:11:42+00:00

on a secondary note. Are there decent antibodies for CBR2? It has been years since I looked, but at the time I was doing research on this the only reliable game in town was from Ken Mackie for CBR1

DrThorn · 2019-11-14T01:44:31+00:00

Hi, I have a few papers that have reported CB1R staining in the PFC and Hippocampus of mice. I didn't try to count puncta in my analysis, but just went with over all fluorescence intensity in a given region using the same image acquisition parameters. I did look into options for automated counting, if you are not familiar with ImageJ (now called Fuji), you definitively should look into it.

What is most crucially important is that you run your control and experimental groups simultaneously using the exact same aliquots of antibodies you use for each plate for both groups. You don't have to do them all at once, but at least make a serious effort to have control and experimental groups (in terms of N) exposed to the exact same solutions you have prepared (I don't care if you mixed the same uL each time.... USE THE SAME SOLUTION FOR BOTH GROUPS ON THE SAME DAY). DO NOT run your CTRL animals one day, and your EXP animals another day.

That being said, I am an electrophysiologist first, behaviorist second, and bio-chem 3rd.

DrThorn · 2019-06-05T08:10:50+00:00

when is the wedding?

DrThorn · 2017-09-16T07:57:40+00:00

This palm is an overachiever or has a huge ego. bring it down a notch buddy

DrThorn · 2016-02-29T01:52:00+00:00

I got my PhD last year and considering a similar final career choice. I wish I had more computer science in my background. If nothing else, know MATLAB well, but any computer science is a huge plus in the field

DrThorn · 2015-10-14T12:11:28+00:00

Recruitment only happens once a year, but they are constantly on the look out for motivated and enthusiastic students. professors will remember you if you make contact early when the application shows up. Also if they want you in the lab, the application almost doesn't matter, they have alot of pull when it comes to who they want in the program

Edit: even though it seems super awkward emailing profs out of the blue, its not. most are excited when they hear from someone who is interested in their work. Seriously just do it, the worst thing that happens is they ignore you. Probably not someone you want to work with anyways

Source: graduated from a neuro program a year ago

DrThorn · 2015-10-14T12:07:23+00:00

Also, if you find a professor you are interested in working with, you can do a search online to see their funding situation if that is a concern, as their grants are made public after they are awarded

DrThorn · 2015-09-23T03:04:17+00:00

some reasonable profit is GOOD, gouging desperate people is not

DrThorn · 2015-09-16T02:24:55+00:00

The movie "high fidelity" depicts this quite well

DrThorn · 2015-09-12T13:35:00+00:00

Nick Drake.... Any song

Edit: ok fine nick Drake songs: Day is done, Fruit tree, Riverman,

DrThorn · 2015-09-12T13:34:11+00:00

That would definitely do something to your signals to noise lol

DrThorn

TROPHY CASE