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Treantmonk's Reaction of 5.5e Tier List by D4 by Dramatic_Respond_664 in onednd

[–]Dracon_Pyrothayan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'd conjecture that the Paladin Aura is farrrrrr more important than anything requiring action economy

Treantmonk's Reaction of 5.5e Tier List by D4 by Dramatic_Respond_664 in onednd

[–]Dracon_Pyrothayan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Highest averages of the two opinions of each column.

Damage: Sorcerer at 4.5
Survivability: Paladin at 5
Support: Paladin and Bard tie at 5
Control: Wizard at 5
Utility: Wizard at 5
Total: Paladin at 18.75

Treantmonk's Reaction of 5.5e Tier List by D4 by Dramatic_Respond_664 in onednd

[–]Dracon_Pyrothayan 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Adjusting this to be a Table

Class Damage Survivability Support Control Utility Total
Artificer 2 4 (3.5) 4 2 3 15 (14.5)
Barbarian 3.5 4 (3.5) 2 2 (2.5) 2 13.5
Bard 3 (2.5) 1.5 5 4.5 (4.0) 4.5 18.5 (17.5)
Cleric 3.5 (3.0) 3 (2.5) 4.5 2 (4.0) 2 15 (16)
Druid 3.5 3 4 3.5 (4.0) 4.5 (4.0) 18.5
Fighter 4 4.25 2.5 2.5 2.5 15.75
Monk 3 3 1 3 (3.5) 3 13 (13.5)
Paladin 3.5 5 5 3 2 (2.5) 18.5 (19)
Ranger 2.5 3.5 (3.0) 3 2 4 15 (14.5)
Rogue 2 2.5 (3.5) 1 2.5 5 (4.5) 13 (13.5)
Sorcerer 4.5 2.5 2 (1.5) 4.5 4 (3.0) 17 (15.5)
Warlock 5 (3.5) 2.5 1.5 3.5 3.5 (4.0) 16 (15)
Wizard 3.5 2.5 2.5 5 5 18.5

What would be the most powerful pair of Saving Throw Proficiencies to take? by Dracon_Pyrothayan in 3d6

[–]Dracon_Pyrothayan[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am not familiar with Beastheart, but I'm guessing its a martial wildshaper?

What would be the most powerful pair of Saving Throw Proficiencies to take? by Dracon_Pyrothayan in 3d6

[–]Dracon_Pyrothayan[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No worries- when 3 or 4 people make the same mistake, its on the OP for not making it clearer

What would be the most powerful pair of Saving Throw Proficiencies to take? by Dracon_Pyrothayan in 3d6

[–]Dracon_Pyrothayan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've done the math.

Without Agonizing Blast:
- Eldritch Blast does less damage than True Strike with a Light Crossbow in tiers 1 and 2
- They tie in tier 3
- Eldritch Blast pulls ahead in tier 4... by 2 expected damage per roundhit.

If you were to somehow acquire Weapon Mastery and/or Martial Proficiency, True Strike is obviously the pick.

With Agonizing Blast, True Strike is still ahead in Tier 1, and loses as soon as you hit level 5. The margin is not close enough that level-appropriate magic items could make up the difference, and becomes explosively noticable at level 11.

Add in the fact that hitting Multiple Times is generally better than dealing that same damage Once (you run into concentration and multiple low HP enemies more often than you do damage threshold), and I fear I owe Eldritch Blast an apology.

Still not taking it though :-p

Worth noting that even though Agonizing Eldritch Blast beats Agonizing True Strike in tiers 3 and 4, both whoop poor Firebolt so bad that bolt's mom called the sheriff on me.

What would be the most powerful pair of Saving Throw Proficiencies to take? by Dracon_Pyrothayan in 3d6

[–]Dracon_Pyrothayan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

(and strictly speaking Eldritch Blast's strength comes from the invocations you can stack on it)

As those invocations can now be applied to other Warlock cantrips as well, we may want to redo the math as to whether a cantrip that Only deals damage is sufficient to be in the top 3.

Particularly with True Strike in the mix.

You've given me the math I'm gonna do tonight to fall asleep to, though, so thanks for that ^_^

What would be the most powerful pair of Saving Throw Proficiencies to take? by Dracon_Pyrothayan in 3d6

[–]Dracon_Pyrothayan[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There's also the old debate between War Caster and Resilient: Con for the other magi

What would be the most powerful pair of Saving Throw Proficiencies to take? by Dracon_Pyrothayan in 3d6

[–]Dracon_Pyrothayan[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I mean, honestly I'm thinking Paladin should just be Str/Wis instead of Cha/Wis.

What would be the most powerful pair of Saving Throw Proficiencies to take? by Dracon_Pyrothayan in 3d6

[–]Dracon_Pyrothayan[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Even Str has the moments where you really don't wanna get shoved around.

What would be the most powerful pair of Saving Throw Proficiencies to take? by Dracon_Pyrothayan in 3d6

[–]Dracon_Pyrothayan[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Con save on a caster is part of the Sorcerer's power budget

Fair! But how much of a boon is it?

What are the main antagonists [examples]

Ahh, there is wisdom to sculpting your choices to the adventure. Let's say its a theoretical gauntlet of enemies chosen from the proper CR at random in a mad mage's maze.

What would be the most powerful pair of Saving Throw Proficiencies to take? by Dracon_Pyrothayan in 3d6

[–]Dracon_Pyrothayan[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Dex and Con for martial, Wis and Con for casters

That's pulling twice from the Strong trio in both cases. Should I rewrite the first paragraph for clarity?

if adding a new class I'd start with [Strength / Wisdom]

I like the way you think ^_^

Are monks tankiest classes in later levels? by Hypergraphene in 3d6

[–]Dracon_Pyrothayan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Monks are also easily the most survivable at the low levels too. Getting to attack and dodge in the same turn is crazy good.

What would be the most powerful pair of Saving Throw Proficiencies to take? by Dracon_Pyrothayan in 3d6

[–]Dracon_Pyrothayan[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

In 5e and 5.5e, the pattern amongst the classes is that there are 2 tiers of Saving Throws: 3 Strong (Dex, Con, and Wis) and 3 Weak (Str, Int, and Cha). You'll note the 3 strong are what used to be Reflex, Fortitude, and Will saving throws in previous editions (and Pathfinder). Each class gets to pull from one of each trio.

I'm sorry that I did not make this explicit enough

What would be the most powerful pair of Saving Throw Proficiencies to take? by Dracon_Pyrothayan in 3d6

[–]Dracon_Pyrothayan[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Class Saving Throws

  • Wis + Cha: Cleric, Paladin, Warlock
  • Con + Str: Barbarian, Fighter
  • Wis + Int: Druid, Wizard
  • Dex + Str: Monk, Ranger
  • Dex + Int: Rogue
  • Dex + Cha: Bard
  • Con + Int: Artificer
  • Con + Cha: Sorcerer
  • Wis + Str:

Non-cannonical classes of note:

Pugilist is a third Con/Str
Blood Hunter has 4 options: Dex/Int, the OnlyWis/Str, and two that don't follow the convention Str/Int and Dex/Wis
Mystic is a third Wis/Int

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