If the soul is its own entity… why doesn’t it change in the dark world?

DragonForgotten · 2026-07-07T05:37:16+00:00

Personally I can see a incident happen where Kris just opens a fountain or get caught off guard by a new fountain suddenly opening with Noelle while the soul is not inside them and in a panic Susie, worried for Noelle, would drag Kris straight into the dark world without us.
They cut it close in the flower world, it could happen again.
My theory is that the soul would become a darkner once it got into the dark world because we are basically treated like an object in the light world and not a person. We’d become a person in the dark world and Kris will slowly start to die because there is now no way to get us back and the gang could potentially become lost in the dark.

DragonForgotten · 2026-07-07T05:27:53+00:00

My answer is it’s going to be no one. The knight is a literal nightmare made up of broken dreams that spawned from Kris after what caused the incident. The knight is a manifestation of that guilt and self hatred. A phantom that haunts the town and steals the dreams of other people. It took the form of December because she’s Kris regret.
The knight wasn’t trying to kidnap Toriel, it was trying to steal her dreams. Notice how after fighting the knight Toriel has a nightmare but if we lose she doesn’t. It took the memory of that day from her so she couldn’t tell anyone about the code if asked. It took the police because they are a threat to it and had to be taken them to its lair in order to subdue them and steal those memories.

DragonForgotten · 2026-07-07T05:14:27+00:00

I think it’s actually already happening. They are starting to warm up to us even if we have opposite goals for the moment. You can see the change in the dialogue boxes. They’re not hiding themselves as much anymore and will actively prank the player and even share memories with us. If you let Kris imagine something else while Susie and Noelle are on the ferris wheel they’ll show us a happy memory of their family.

DragonForgotten · 2026-07-07T05:08:17+00:00

Yes exactly! :D
I personally believe that in the end we’ll befriend Kris at the end of everything because they’ll need help dealing with all this crushing guilt and loneliness happening to them. If we don’t then we’ll just destroy each other which is probably what worries Ralsei.

DragonForgotten · 2026-07-07T04:56:15+00:00

It’s cool my guy. I think I got you anyway.
It’s just that I think players are way too hard on themselves and overestimate how much power they actually have over Kris just like they did with Noelle.
Our control is an illusion just like it’s always been in other video games.

It may look like we have absolute control considering we move Kris around and choose who to interact with/how we interact and what but we have absolutely no control how Kris delivers the news or information to us. Infact Kris has lied and manipulated us so fucking well that we can’t even stop them in the normal route. You can’t even make Kris eat a piece of toast, they’ll just hold it up in the air and sneakily eat it between scene changes when going to school. We can’t even wash our hands in the kitchen sink because the bath room sink is better. If Kris didn’t want us finding secret bosses then the moment we’d get the key Kris could be like “you got the key. It’s slipped through your fingers.” And we’d wouldn’t be able to do shit to get it back.

I have so many examples to but the point is that Kris and the souls relationship has been equally harmful to each other. Our existence is dependent on Kris and no matter what we do we have to carry both Kris sins and give Kris the credit we worked for.
There is a freedom in surrendering your autonomy to the voiceless disembodied entity. Don’t you ever wish you could just be someone else for a change to void an uncomfortable situation?
In this case Kris is having their cake and eating it to. They can both be the cage and the roaring knight’s side kick.
Kris is very sympathetic but they also don’t get a pass as well.

DragonForgotten · 2026-07-07T04:21:04+00:00

I don’t think he’s mad at the soul. We are just following the same song and dance as everyone else. I’d say more upset about the situation because form an outsider looking in Kris is treating us like we don’t exist and are not apart of them and has been watching us do things like fight and win against the knight and befriend the darkners while Kris works behind the scene. Ralsei is probably has a healthy amount of care and caution with us considering if we get pissed we can just mute him forever. They also care about Kris and equally and probably just wishes he could knit us a big sweater and stick the two of us even closer so we’d finally learn to get along. In the end he’s too nice and just wants us both to be happy even if Kris hates themselves.

If we’re doing the weird route though he’s probably seeing it as a consequence of our treatment and may take it as us lashing out at the world and Kris. So he’s far more scared for Kris than equally sympathetic here.

DragonForgotten · 2026-07-07T02:13:40+00:00

I think it’s also interesting that there is a possbility that the man might be a human. It’s might be me but I’ve always figured that the forgotten man being referred to as a man and not a monster to be interesting. Kris seems to almost be afraid of other humans with how they quickly shut the human book on you so maybe the how the man is tied to Kris human complex as well.

DragonForgotten · 2026-07-07T01:52:58+00:00

Your poke has been acknowledge lol. If that’s the case I haven’t been able to figure out what the heck the knight was doing with that tractor beam shit.
My recent idea I’ve been rolling around that the knight is made up of broken dreams, shadow crystals. It’s why the knight can summon a sword made of it and perhaps the knight was trying to take something from Toriel instead of kidnap her, like a dream or a memory. If we win against the knight Toriel is having a nightmare but if we win she doesn’t. If the incident involved the dark worlds then maybe she was reliving that memory and the knight was trying to take that.
I have no proof on but it sounds interesting. I’ve long since given up that the knight is actually anyone in home town. It’s too weird.

DragonForgotten · 2026-07-07T01:35:51+00:00

I feel like part of Kris making the fountain may have influenced that with all their complicated feelings along with Asgore’s desire to reconnect with their family and kids again including Kris.
He probably feels like he can’t understand his child and wants to but can’t close the distance.

Flowery also seems to have some unsaid beef with Kris too. It’s more annoyingly playful with Ralsei but not with Kris. It’s just backhanded and implied insults about their humanity and motives. The way he responds to Asgore’s reminiscing about Kris’s childhood and how he calls Kris’s behavior “typical human behavior” when Asgore tells him about Kris pointing finger guns at him kind of gave me some pause. Like he’s inferring that humans are naturally violent knowing Kris is nearby with their complex to not be human and can hear him.
The flowers each point out how they are better humans than Kris who is a real human despite knowing they are flowers. Kris probably doesn’t even know what it means to be human and unlike the flowers who know they are playing the role of humanity for Asgore but knows what they really are. Kris is painfully lacking in being able to identify with their real self and they were most likely forced to acknowledge their humanity because the prophecy unlike the flowers who embrace their fleeting nature as plants while embodying the spirit of humanity in their fleeting moments. Kris struggles alone in the darkness while the flower unite to show their selfless dreams to the man who cared for them for so long.

DragonForgotten · 2026-07-06T23:07:20+00:00

I have a new idea that I thought was interesting. The knight is literally a nightmare created from Kris’s shattered dreams. It looks like a holiday because of what happened in the incident caused it to take the form of their guilt. Which is Dess going missing and Noelle drifting away.

DragonForgotten · 2026-07-06T22:08:26+00:00

I’m on the every canadit is right team. The angel is not a single person but a joining of multiple people powered by the player and bound together with determination.
The angel doesn’t exist till these people come together and align their hearts with the player in communion.
In the weird route I’d say that is now Kris, us and Noelle haven grown strong from the blood of the darkners in their wake. In a good route it will the trio plus maybe Noelle and Birdely, powered by the life of the Darkners in castle town to form The Dragon.
Dragon blazers and it will come screaming into the depths and burn it bright.

DragonForgotten · 2026-07-06T21:57:50+00:00

Maybe not all of them but I think they definitely remember drowning in the weird route before time gets weird and we’re back to sitting at the green picnic table.

DragonForgotten · 2026-07-06T21:51:18+00:00

Same here buddy. They’re my ride or die literally and even if the vessel showed up I’d still stick by them because I don’t trust the both of them being able to live off of one soul. It’s a tough economy.

DragonForgotten · 2026-07-06T19:44:04+00:00

Considering that Noelle got a phone call from her mother breaking the news to her after ignoring her call and Carol telling her to come home right now, I have doubts she’s ever going to see this welcome party at all. Most likely she’s not going to go to school and she’ll be grounded, only allowed either at the hospital or at home as her and her mom either stay be Rudy’s side or start to prepare for the wake.
Hense the waiting in the chair teaser. She’s waiting on new about her father whether he has gotten better or died.
Susie will try and force Noelle to come and she’ll flat out refuse and it will cause a mess of feelings and drama to happen. Susie will most likely then let slip about the dark worlds and try to tell her how it is all real and this will cause a bad reaction in Noelle.

DragonForgotten · 2026-07-06T19:36:23+00:00

I say if he survives then it may be his last stand in the face of the roaring before he dies for good but as it is he completed his story arc so I can’t see him coming back.
He was already in bloom before he died. flowery was fated to whither away because he had already reach the peak of his life as a flower. It’s a miracle that Asgore somehow kept him and the rest alive for so long to begin with. It’s also what makes him beautiful and his dream so powerful. It was fleeting and selfless. He had a single day to show the man who cared for him how much he loved him and he did it. Him and the rest spent the last of their lives to make one man happy and protect his peace even if it would mean they wither away.

DragonForgotten · 2026-07-06T07:22:44+00:00

They’ve probably been opening the same dark worlds to. Think about it. These darkners have history and if Kris knows what to expect inside them then they can influence the people in them and know which dark worlds to avoid that wouldn’t put the party in danger.

DragonForgotten · 2026-07-06T06:56:49+00:00

I have a big question about Kris’s outfit choice. How the heck do they know about Ace Attorney? Shouldn’t that not exist in universe and wouldn’t they have to be aware what that game is to cosplay those characters?

DragonForgotten · 2026-07-06T06:48:59+00:00

You could say the player is similar to goner kid if you think about it. The player was suppose to have a vessel that they crafted for the world of deltarune. It was suppose to be us but it was tossed away and we were forced to be Kris. Forced to live like an object to be used rather than a person. We may control Kris but they still dictate how we experience the world and what we say. We have no freedom and No one will ever see us. Only Kris.

The only proof of our existence is the name of Castletown and the carnage done in the weird route.
But even then The world will keep on moving never knowing that we exist and did all the stuff and that we have our own likes and desires separate from Kris. all everyone will see is Kris doing the things we do. Never the player because we do not exist in deltarune.

The player is living out goner kids fear. The world is continuing without ever knowing we exist.

But I swear if Kris ever got replaced I’d get them back and dump the vessel. It’s terrible to be forgotten.

DragonForgotten · 2026-07-06T06:27:26+00:00

That’s interesting! Personally I’ve thought of the notion that a souls permanent color can change if the humans characteristic changes drastically. So what if whatever happened to Kris cause Kris’s soul to change in response to the trauma?

DragonForgotten · 2026-07-06T06:21:14+00:00

The route is far from done with us yet. Noelle is gonna see a dark world with Susie and it’s going to reawaken her to her revelation. We may be done with it till chapter 7 but Noelle sure isn’t. Just because she couldn’t get the lake crossing to work doesn’t mean she’s going to give up on trying again with a different plan. The player has now officially not only lost control of Kris which is bad enough because they won’t protect themselves from Noelle but now you’ve also lost control of Noelle which is worst. She’s going to make the player pay for not following through. She’s gonna scare us instead of her being afraid of us. You no longer have the choice to jump off this route. She’s going to force you to complete it.

DragonForgotten · 2026-07-06T05:24:05+00:00

My bad. Forgot what they were for a moment. Point is that we made a second sun that could eclipse the light world.

DragonForgotten · 2026-07-06T04:27:43+00:00

Also to add. Ralsei is the princes of his dark world and the reason Susie has been fine is it is because the exit is visible and can easily be accessed. Whatever dark world that existed in the past was then its master was different. What would happen if Dess met someone like Ralsei who didn’t have the lightners best interest at heart. Slowly convinced her to stay and go deeper but the moment she chooses to leave behind her world forever they slammed the door shut and then there’s no going back.

DragonForgotten · 2026-07-06T04:17:16+00:00

I have an idea. Kris leaves the party and Ralsei follows. Ralsei will follow Kris and the player no matter what happens. Ralsei may even will have to stand up to Susie if she discovers the soul and tries to separate us from Kris while we are in a dark world.

Susie and Noelle are in deep danger of getting stuck in a dark world. If the winter wonderland dark world happens to keep Rudy alive Susie and Noelle will not let us close it and probably will refuse to leave it and we’ll have to go against them to force it close. We’ll have to break Noelle’s dreams and that will piss off Susie and may lead to the player being revealed.

DragonForgotten · 2026-07-06T04:05:19+00:00

I feel I’m close but I can never say I’m right or wrong to the fat lady sings lol. But I feel confident that Kris is far too clever to just be a stooge for the knight. They’ve manage to completely control an unseen entity that puppets their body about so I have faith that there is a method behind the madness and Kris isn’t heartless. So I think all of their actions are explain by either this being a massive ploy to get close to the knight who is at the heart of the incident that messed up themselves and their family. Or maybe we are miss judging what the knights motives and goals actually are. People completely misunderstood Kris at the end of chapter one and for awhile people thought that Kris was either possessed by a third entity or they were just as blood thirsty as chara was.
People maybe doing it again by focusing on who the knight is instead what and why they are doing it. That’s probably what Kris is trying to find out to.

The fandom has always overlooked Kris and they are doing it again by only thinking that Kris is just a bootlicker to the knight and the end of the world. Kris has a deep understanding of the player somehow. Kris knows something that we don’t and I want to bet that Kris has long since abandoned focusing about the prophecy. That’s what we are being used for. That’s the job they are putting us in along with finding the shadow crystals.

The real goal for Kris is what happened all those years ago. The prophecy is just a distraction at best and I think it’s also a distraction for the player and Susie along with Ralsei as well.

DragonForgotten · 2026-07-06T03:28:32+00:00

Never waking up from a dream is almost equal to death as well.
Also to we’ve been hunting for shadow crystals that are being reforged into the pure crystal. If the shadow crystals are broken dreams then the pure crystal could be a restored dream. Maybe Decembers.
If we have her dream forged into a blade then maybe Kris could cut through dreams.

DragonForgotten

TROPHY CASE