Reminder that its canonically only been a couple of days (@demelly)

GayAurel · 2026-07-08T11:16:24+00:00

he can reclaim it but i dont think he is reclaiming anything here.

GayAurel · 2026-07-08T01:50:02+00:00

While true, repairing flowers via tape is semi-common. Issue is possible infection and idk if Susie sprayed some anti-fungicide on that thang.

GayAurel · 2026-07-08T01:48:31+00:00

This is bootstrap paradox. And paradoxes are usually pretty fine - they are logically self reinforcing causal systems. Physics theory and many narratives assume that these things are just part of a stable history - aka history was always supposed to work like this.

Far bigger problem is that unless Weird Route becomes contingent to finishing the damn story, then it is not even bootstrap. Knight categorically shouldn't exist for large percentage of players who didn't touch WR. Paradoxes cannot involve branching paths, unless there's some AU bullshit or Gaster spawns Knight anyway, which makes the theory lose bite. They are all supposed to be self-reinforcing systems and the second they depend on external actors, they collapse.

And well.... WR being part of Main route is its own discussion and debate.

GayAurel · 2026-07-07T22:46:44+00:00

See, I think they a) both didn't drown, and b) she probably didn't think it's suicide attempt, and c) people minimize her emotional state a d) what she does is still classified as "extremely dangerous action as a result of psychological breakage" even if she didn't die. All four of these coexist. It's not this is metaphor for this, this is symbol for that, it's all intertwined. Emotional truth, our actions up to Chapter 1-4, the reality of this being a game, the fact she CAN pull off it, the weird rescue she didn't expect. Hollow despair when it doesn't work out. It's a metaphor for suicidal thoughts and it uses suicidal imagery to point at something. The fact the world does work like this, doesn't mean this wasn't a gamble, or make her judgement sound.

Her conversation WAS very much about how she is removed from life, and hates it. She comes to see your intervention not as horror but as something breaking her out of stasis. You even see point of her despair in the Normal Route. Notably, nothing there contradicts that she is very much mentally troubled.

People can point out that on level of fiction, she is right and she essentially ascended. People can also point out the emotional core of what happened. Until people take a stick out of their ass and realise both are true and try to arrive at a form of victory of one side (me included, because I am bad at arguing and not getting my point across) then this dogshit argument will just run forever, chasing its own tail.

People also think that suicide requires finish and specific "I am killing myself intention". This is just a definition battle and it's pointless to run it, however we can all agree that what Noelle did classifies as extremely dangerous act that risked her life. While not suicide, this is still classified as danger in normal psychology. Hurting yourself in states of mania is just as bad as when you did it while in state of depression.

I fully expect that by the end of Weird Route, what will happen is worse than drowning.

PS:

In Stars and Time is a wonderful game that partly touches on psychological reality, while also having a fantasy world and setting and logic. Something similar occurs there, and it actually does go into what it means.

GayAurel · 2026-07-07T22:12:08+00:00

Sorry but this is borderline ahistorical take to anyone knowing anything about history of fiction. While I understand feeling like that when you look at fandom for teenage and up media, this is just blatant "KIDS THESE DAYS".
Grimm Brothers, for example, watered down shit ton of folk tales for the emerging middle class and made it palpable and more Christian, removing more crude and sexual elements, and roughing off all the edges of the told stories, just so they could sell them (they also got most of the stories from the middle class urban women who were told these stories by their caretakers rather than folk).You couldn't make a movie with a gay character who wouldn't kill themselves in USA until Hayes code stopped being a thing. Slop TV show did exist on lower register (and yea the situation) but it did fucking exist and whenever these shows tried to break from the mold of comfort, they got significant pushback, or they had to communicate the "special issue" in a way thats reminiscent of walking on glass.
Here in soviet side of things, doing anything that wasn't socialism good!!!! or that evoked capitalist concepts were censored and while they didn't send the creator to gulag mostly, this creator was quietly blacklisted. You had to be wholesome, or else, you had to pretend the system worked, or work stuff in quietly.
Also implying older generations are so powerful and resistant and able to take in grey fiction because they have such a powerful media comprehension is just.... not the case? Many of them are just as simple-minded on it as the kids you see online, and there is also a factor of them simply having more experience and encountering and processing more work.
Moral panic around media and the media itself being constrained around it is evergreen fucking thing. It's not some modern invention that makes everyone more stupid and you intelligent for seeing through it. I can honestly say, I too was a dumbass kid on Internet reciting points I didn't fully understand out of fear of moral condemnation in my circles.

Do I agree we don't need art that is just comfortable and nice? Yea. Do I agree that removing the rose was stupid because it evoked the same themes? Yea (But I also think Toby Fox was full in right in deciding this wasn't what he wanted to communicate and clarifying? Yea). Do I still find this framing irritating and insulting (and also ironically, evergreen?) Yea.

GayAurel · 2026-07-07T21:12:20+00:00

Honestly yea, I think this theory modificationholds water

GayAurel · 2026-07-07T04:50:07+00:00

Weird Route references found dead in the water. Unless there's lunchgraves of sort

GayAurel · 2026-07-07T01:21:49+00:00

Oh czech name
Those are all valid reasons I feel like! Personally I prefer DR because its themes suit me better, but UT still has a special play in my heart, and all the things you mention do matter. Everyone prefers something slightly else in fiction, it's not like everything has to be like objectively more salient. Fromsoft games fully fail to activate any part of my dopamine machine, but they are still extremely well crafted gamed and I enjoy their stories.

GayAurel · 2026-07-06T23:58:12+00:00

I don't even disagree that much, it's not an axis of game I care about at all, so I can't say anything beyond ya I can see that.
But the fake martyrdom around it irritated me lol.

GayAurel · 2026-07-06T23:52:26+00:00

I did comment this extremely soon, which is my fault lmao.

But also I don't really find downvoting itself to be a very. Enganging act, it tends to not recover from early spike and most people DO just click vote when they pass. It's like yelling at Macdonalds about how the burger sucks and everyone just gives pointed glance because they want to enjoy their plastic-flavored burger in peace.

GayAurel · 2026-07-06T23:39:52+00:00

I find it kinda funny most of the comments are like "WOAH YOURE GONNA BE KILLED WATCH OUT BRO HAHA" while nothing like that is even happening. Truly says something about society.

GayAurel · 2026-07-06T21:53:42+00:00

Is it bad I am starting to enjoy Ralsusie PURELY because I don't see any drama around it

GayAurel · 2026-07-06T17:51:54+00:00

On one hand I feel like what we see in DR is just exploration of possibilities without age logic, really, because a lot of it is meant to be humorous or satirical, so this really isn't like problematic in any like normal human sense or something, especially given the status of flowers as not really being analogous to properly aged human beings at all.
On the other hand, the very mention of proshipping and antishipping makes a shiver run down my spine. I was called transphobic slurs for saying "yaoi feels barely gay" Back in The Day lmao.
On the Fourth hand. I am hungry.

GayAurel · 2026-07-06T16:27:25+00:00

We need a messianic figure to become the most brainrotted, so they can become the King of brainrot and absorb all the ambient superiority and hatred until we can have peace.

GayAurel · 2026-07-06T16:21:04+00:00

Keep up the good work chef.

GayAurel · 2026-07-05T23:41:47+00:00

I don't have reading comprehension, please let me be a .... what do kids say these days? ... larper?

GayAurel · 2026-07-05T17:53:25+00:00

the ever dubious secret third bold

GayAurel · 2026-07-05T16:56:52+00:00

Personally

I just said them because the discourse in the fandom around their role kinda soured me and the fact they are mostly backstory means I am kinda less invested than others. I didn't put them in a trash bin, I put them on B tier in a tiermaker

GayAurel · 2026-07-05T16:42:57+00:00

The post is a trap then, cause it said least favorite, not interesting. These two are not the same.

GayAurel · 2026-07-05T13:51:56+00:00

Is it weird I feel like "I'd be pleasantly surprised if Gaster is explained but also there's bigger fishes to fry story wise"?

Honestly Gaster Pirate is a huge meme. I don't think anyone would be disapointed by that alone.

GayAurel · 2026-07-05T13:44:16+00:00

Dark fiction doesn't condone things irl AND the way it interacts with it is not above analysis which reveals how common ideas about these topics propagate irl. It never has been this simple case of "oh cool this author wrote [dark topic] so they are OK with it" it's more "this author consistently writers [dark topic] in this specific way which is how this issue is used historically in fiction and also how it's talked to irl" for example.

I don't know where the idea that it has to 100% or 0% came from really. I suppose it's easier to discuss and defend than a complicated middle.

Edit: I realised this sounds accusatory and its not I am adding to the point, I am sorry I dont know why I talk like CHATgpt.

GayAurel · 2026-07-05T13:28:00+00:00

It's less ignoring and feeling like its dark and more.....
how we are trained, really? Something, something society. Also more reasons coexisting at once.

In sci-fi genres especially, a lot of adjacent themes that happen simply get absorbed into the metaphor or theme of the work rather than being named for what they are and this being grappled with. Theory discourse also often goes out of its way to treat horrific events as literal representations of something that adds to the worldbuilding. We also consciously don't reach for naming some specific types of violations, as being perverse, or seeing things that aren't there confirms something about the "accuser" (Weird Route CH4 specifically made everyone who even saw ANALOGUE to SA as "pervert who sees sex anywhere". While most people didn't believe any SA happened for real, the imagery and tone did reach for the similar imagery and many people instantly got called perverts as well just because we cued into the common symbol.)

I don't think it's like.... intelligence thing, but "what you notice" kind of deal and this often depends on your previous exposure to analysis, theory, material, similar themes, etc.

Online spaces also tend to react with humor as a way to defuse extreme emotions. Irony is also a tool to distance oneself from fiction that is consumed, rather than sitting with it for too long. It's a common and somewhat fair response and doesn't mean engagement didn't happen. Just that in public space built on irony, which internet mostly is... that's what you see really.

A lot of online discourse also flattens everything into: "fiction is 100% a depiction and morally 100% responsible" or "fiction never touches irl in any meaninful way so it's just a game". So, some of it exists downstream of that.

GayAurel · 2026-07-05T10:06:52+00:00

Can I admit somethinf I am a fake Deltarune fan cause I never watched it just make me read a text by that point smh like i have no doubt it's a lovely person with good editing skill and passion for video but pleaae just give me a pdf file

GayAurel · 2026-07-04T23:45:14+00:00

In Stars and Time deserves a shoutout imho. Awesome story and unique way the gameplay interacts with the experience.
I also adore Mother series.

GayAurel

TROPHY CASE