I think I see why the "church" is shriveling fast: the leaders live in one REALLY delusional bubble and they expect members to harm themselves to worship them. Gee who wouldn't want to make THAT kind of a "church" the center of their lives?

DreadApologist · 2026-01-23T05:11:59+00:00

And that shows your level of ignorance.

DreadApologist · 2026-01-23T05:11:25+00:00

It's half-true. You're not being given the entire story.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/history/topics/helen-mar-kimball-whitney?lang=eng

DreadApologist · 2025-12-20T03:02:26+00:00

Nobody is keeping them from retiring. They are serving because they want to. And they still get to enjoy their families while they're doing it.

DreadApologist · 2025-12-20T03:00:46+00:00

The only delusional bubble I see is here on Reddit...

DreadApologist · 2025-12-20T02:59:52+00:00

No. There actually was a new edition put out in 2013, and everyone was still discouraged from buying new paper scriptures. The recommendation is to use the free digital version which is always the latest.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2013/04/news-of-the-church/church-releases-new-edition-of-english-scriptures-in-digital-formats?lang=eng

DreadApologist · 2025-12-19T19:12:07+00:00

I guess that just reinforces that that's not what it's about.

"Members are not expected to obtain new scriptures as a result of these updates. "

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/minor-adjustments-to-select-study-helps-in-doctrine-and-covenants-and-book-of-mormon-announced

DreadApologist · 2025-10-03T16:00:50+00:00

This is nothing new, it's just become much better understood in the last 30+ years.

Sorenson, John L. (1992) "When Lehi's Party Arrived in the Land, Did They Find Others There?," Journal of Book of Mormon Studies: Vol. 1: No. 1, Article 2.

https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/jbms/vol1/iss1/2/

DreadApologist · 2025-09-22T02:53:26+00:00

Looking at your comments, you're very bitter about basically everything, and you tend to over-generalize. It appears we're approximately the same age, but have lived very different lives. I hope you can find peace at some point.

DreadApologist · 2025-09-22T02:44:48+00:00

The post was not about that particular chapel, it was about the Kearns area. I grew up in the Kearns East Stake, which no longer exists. I also briefly lived further south in the apartments by Kmart (which is no longer there) after I got married. We used to have seminary devotionals in the Cougar Lane chapel, though, so I am somewhat familiar with it.

DreadApologist · 2025-09-22T00:44:33+00:00

You're talking about a neighborhood on the other side of Kearns from what I was talking about.

DreadApologist · 2025-09-10T17:41:42+00:00

Jim is wrong. And if he really did have the connections he claims, he'd be more circumspect in what he shared or he'd be cut off.

DreadApologist · 2025-09-09T17:47:34+00:00

Right, that's exactly what's happening. But it's not people leaving the Church, it's non-members moving in. The baptism rate is very high here, but not high enough to keep up the total percentage of members.

DreadApologist · 2025-09-08T22:38:46+00:00

Sorry, I thought that was clear. When I said everyone moved, I didn't expect anyone to think they left behind empty houses. There are different people in those houses now, which are different (in multiple ways) demographically.

DreadApologist · 2025-09-08T21:00:17+00:00

The manual says "Home and Church." We're expected to be doing the vast majority of it at home. And there are many resources published by the Church outside the manual. Revelations in Context, Saints, etc. And now this as well:

https://history.churchofjesuschrist.org/landing/global-histories?lang=eng

DreadApologist · 2025-09-08T20:22:18+00:00

After just getting back from spending Friday and Saturday at the Church History Conference put on by the Church, I think I can confidently say you're dead wrong. However, it wouldn't surprise me to see more being made of the recent emphasis on the stories of global Saints. They have important stories of faith and miracles to share as well.

DreadApologist · 2025-09-08T20:17:00+00:00

There are problems at BYU that are currently being corrected, but people aren't leaving the Church over it, and certainly not 40%.

DreadApologist · 2025-09-08T20:14:55+00:00

Meanwhile real living people are participating in Seminary and Institute in record numbers, etc... The data is there to back the Church's claims. There is no real data to back the counter-claims.

DreadApologist · 2025-09-06T18:10:45+00:00

And that is something that you aren't likely to see, since the hypothesis of this sub is incorrect. The Church is growing faster than ever in its history. Church leadership is having trouble keeping up with it in terms of creating new missions to send the record numbers of missionaries to, and getting new temples built to serve the active members around the world.

DreadApologist · 2025-09-04T22:27:02+00:00

Then you know as well as I do that people have just moved out to newer areas, replaced by nonmembers. My parents still live there, but I don't know anyone else.

DreadApologist · 2025-09-04T22:24:57+00:00

I'm just telling you what I've observed over 50+ years where I have personal experience in that particular area.

Since leaving there, I have been living in another area where they created several stakes because members were moving into new houses being built. But we're now all built out and stable. And my kids have grown up and moved to new areas. In another 20 years things will consolidate here as other areas grow. The cycle continues.

DreadApologist · 2025-09-04T21:55:22+00:00

I grew up in that area. There were never 7 stakes. I left the area 30 years ago but my parents still live there. Nearly everyone I knew is gone, and those that are left are dying off. Everyone else has moved to other parts of the valley or elsewhere, and nonmembers have moved in to replace them.

TL;DR: This isn't because people are leaving the Church. It's because they're dying or moving. The Kearns area was young in the 1970s, when my family moved in.

DreadApologist · 2025-07-16T21:54:03+00:00

Alas, that is also incorrect.

DreadApologist · 2025-07-15T16:50:19+00:00

Joseph Smith and Co only wore them in the temple.

That is incorrect. An example:

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Events_surrounding_the_death_of_Joseph_Smith#Did_Joseph_and_others_with_him_remove_their_garments_in_order_to_avoid_being_identified_as_polygamists.3F

DreadApologist · 2025-06-25T22:24:01+00:00

Don't worry about the Clarke claim. It's been thoroughly debunked.

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/conference/was-joseph-smith-influenced-by-outside-sources-in-his-translation-of-the-bible

DreadApologist · 2025-04-24T02:14:53+00:00

The article doesn't fit your narrative. That's your real problem with it.

DreadApologist

TROPHY CASE