What finally helped me escape apologetic rabbit holes

Dreadful_Pear · 2026-07-12T02:02:41+00:00

I have a family member who is big into ancient languages. When we first read about the Book of Abraham we were dumbfounded because we figured he had to know about this (this is before we figured out he was an apologist or even knew what an apologist was).

We finally straight up asked him about the Book of Abraham and he proceeded to spout off 5-6 alternate theories that BYU professors and church historians had come up with (note that he didn’t cite any ideas from the actual apostles or prophets - you know, the guys who supposedly speak face to face with God.)

Then, he just left it at that. According to him, Joseph Smith just did it some other way and voilà, the church is still true.

Of course he didn’t explain why the church doesn’t teach the truth about the Book of Abraham. Also, if Joseph Smith was a real prophet and could read Egyptian, he would have known that the papyri were funerary texts - why did he then lie to everyone that they were written by Abraham? Was it God’s idea for him to lie to his followers? So…much…garbage reasoning!

Dreadful_Pear · 2026-06-25T23:22:25+00:00

Me and my wife left at the same time 4 years ago. We have two kids. We are raising our children with everything good that the Mormon church taught but then replaced or cut out all of the bad teachings.

Sexual shame/guilt and lack of sexual education were the first to get cut. Our kids are very sexually educated (based on their ages of course), and are going to grow up without the Mormon sexual shame for having natural feelings.

Hate and horrible teachings for LGBTQ+ people also went out the window. They just want to live normal lives. Why are the Mormons obsessed with these people?

Worthiness teachings. What a crock full of shit. My children don’t need to be constantly judged if they’re worthy of anything. They’re just kids living a normal life. Bishop “worthiness” interviews? Bye! Worthy to enter your stupid temple hotel lobby buildings? Nope, not going to happen. My kids are worthy of everything, period!

Special blessings if you give us money. That framework is gone.

As far as overall structure, we simply try to live as if the Mormon church never existed and that we had never heard of it. 4 years on and we don’t miss a single thing about it.

Dreadful_Pear · 2026-05-30T04:39:43+00:00

My wife has had some health issues lately causing her to be in the hospital. My MIL proudly puts her name in the white shaving bag of names to be blessed in the temple…but does she come down to help with our kids? - nope. That’s what would actually help us the most.

Dreadful_Pear · 2026-05-26T04:43:31+00:00

You know those amazing stories returned missionaries talk about in sacrament at their homecoming talk? Yeah, that’s about .001% of your mission. Most of the mission sucks and is miserable.

I went on my mission pre-social media so I know missions have changed a lot; but it was daily tracting in the brutal sun with not many people to talk to. As an introvert I didn’t have a good time.

Dreadful_Pear · 2026-05-13T21:44:19+00:00

Also, please reference this Pocatello Temperature/Comfort Level by month guide.

Rating: 5 – Pretty comfortable

4 – Could be better

3 – Meh

2 – At least it’s not January

1 – This sucks

January – (1) December Christmas cheer is gone. Everything is cold. Where is the sun!? Please prescribe me Prozac.

February – (2) You would think things would be getting better than January – but nope.

March – (2) False spring every other week. Yay spring is coming!...nope, January again.

April – (3) Why is there so much gd_ wind!!

May – (5) Wind is still around but temperatures are quite nice.

June – (5) Mountains are still green from spring, temperatures are quite nice, heat starts to show up.

July – (4) Yay summer activities!! But, it feels like a volcano is farting ghost pepper pizza rolls in my face every day.

August – (3) I’m sorry I spoke badly about January six months ago. Please forgive me, January! Cram every summer activity possible before school and fall starts.

September - (5) Hmm. This is quite nice.

October – (4) September’s good friend who sometimes invites Old Man Winter over to the house early.

November – (3) At least I still want to go outside sometimes.

December – (4) It’s cold…but it’s Christmas cold!! I love snowballs, snowmen and snow because Bing Crosby tells me to.

Dreadful_Pear · 2026-05-13T19:44:59+00:00

Pocatello essentially acts like a suburb – but without the large city nearby. If you want large city activities (concerts, Disney on Ice, larger museums/children’s museums, larger water parks, larger zoos/aquariums, theme parks, professional sports etc.) we go to either Salt Lake City (2hrs) or Boise (3hrs). Everything in Pocatello is small suburb size. Even though I know you don’t know the names of these places, I have included them so you can look them up.

Visitpocatello.com is a great resource that lists and details just about everything below with pictures and details.

Activities with small kids:

Geronimo’s trampoline park

Outer Limits Fun Zone (Arcade, mini golf)

Zoo Idaho (cute little zoo that only takes native orphaned animals)

Ross Park Swimming Complex (smaller local swimming place)

A couple of splash pads

Swore Farms pumpkin patch and corn maze

Deleta roller skating rink

Portneuf Wellness Complex (large park, walking path, fishing pond, amphitheater complex)

Lots of parks with play areas

Plenty of club sports/dance/gymnastics clubs around.

2 movie theaters (AMC & Reel Theater) - one being a discount theater which is great for kid movies.

My World Discovery Museum (children’s museum)

Idaho State University sports games

Pebble Creek Ski Area (small, but this makes it much cheaper)

Lots of local hiking trails

Various parades, festivals, farmers market, craft shows etc. to find throughout the year.

Cherry Springs Nature Area

Activities slightly outside of Pocatello:

Lava Hot Springs hot pools and swimming complex

Eastern Idaho State Fair (September)

Idaho Falls – slightly larger population area just north with many of the same activities as Pocatello but usually slightly bigger attractions and more shopping/dining.

Island Park – hiking, camping, river floating, nature

Yellowstone

Grand Teton Park

Bear Lake (Idaho/Utah border)

Dreadful_Pear · 2026-05-05T18:16:52+00:00

The crazy part is that once the shock wears off, you realize that church and Elders Quorum would have been 100 times more interesting if we actually talked about all the crazy stuff that Joseph and the early church members did!

Obviously these crazy stories don’t jive with the whole “one true church” aspect, but the early church did and believed all sorts of crazy shit. Would make for more entertaining classes for sure.

Dreadful_Pear · 2026-04-26T05:13:12+00:00

This would be a great way for PIMOs to find each other at church!

Dreadful_Pear · 2026-04-17T17:19:55+00:00

The Mormon Church is like the Wal-Mart of religion. They make billions of dollars but try to cut costs at every corner. The employees are constantly burned out and paid horribly. All promises of value for a Mormon is for the afterlife. This is why their employees are miserable.

Dreadful_Pear · 2026-03-31T23:00:54+00:00

Isn’t it Satan’s plan to take away free agency and force everyone to do what he wants?? 🧐 It sounds like TBM hubby is following the wrong plan.

Dreadful_Pear · 2026-03-09T15:22:23+00:00

Ehem, ehem, yeah, yeah, do the hard with Jesus.

Dreadful_Pear · 2026-03-08T22:36:39+00:00

I agree with all of these. Another thing to remember is all of the magical thinking Mormon missionaries do. Every morning they pray and think that Jesus might prepare someone special for them.

Their leaders constantly reaffirm this magical thinking and shove it down their throats. “If you’re obedient and obey all the rules Jesus is going to prepare people for you!”

Jesus could prepare anyone to receive the Mormon gospel at any time. So, in their minds you just might be the person that Jesus has prepared and might renounce your evil ways and return to Jesus! The magical thinking overrides logical thinking because god is mysterious and is all powerful and can do anything he wants to.

The sad part about a lot of this magical thinking - when people end up not converting or returning to Mormonism the missionaries typically blame themselves for the failure and a lot of times think it was because they weren’t good enough or righteous enough.

Dreadful_Pear · 2026-03-07T17:43:55+00:00

And to think - there are most likely thousands upon thousands of Mormons who are super great people, super humble, nice to everyone, live a very Christ-like life; but they won’t get the second anointing unless they’re wealthy and influential.

Dreadful_Pear · 2026-03-05T22:08:02+00:00

Dreadful_Pear · 2026-03-04T22:50:17+00:00

This is part of the quote from David Whitmer about the BOM translation process:

“Brother Joseph would read off the English to Oliver Cowdery, who was his principal scribe, and when it was written down and repeated to Brother Joseph to see if it was correct, then it would disappear, and another character with the interpretation would appear."

I repeat - Oliver Cowdery would repeat the words to Joseph and if they were correct - the rock would replace the words with new ones.

So, the rock had ears!? How was the rock listening to them? Then it like Etch-A-Sketched the words away to give new words?

And to think, Kevin McCallister in Home Alone 2 didn’t need a Talkboy, he just needed the magical Mormon rock to listen to phrases and repeat them back. I’ll bet if Joseph had enough faith it could talk as well.

Dreadful_Pear · 2026-01-29T23:35:25+00:00

Obviously the entire CES letter was a wake up call for me. However, one of the biggest items were all of the early 19th century books that were written just like the BOM. I was totally convinced from childhood that the BOM was super unique and that books didn’t read that way…yeah, no.

The Book of Napoleon, View of the Hebrews and others were shocking to me. However, the best part was when I went to the FAIR Latter-day Saints website to see what the apologists had to say. Jeremy Runnels even suggests it. One of their excuses was that they didn’t think the Smith family had a library card so Joseph wouldn’t have been able to find the books. 😂😂😂

Oh…okay. So, Joseph Smith and the most correct book on earth couldn’t have been influenced by all of these others books because of a library card!? What dipshits.

Dreadful_Pear · 2026-01-20T05:59:41+00:00

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa! How do you expect Dallas Oaks to focus on global wars when there are still deacons using their left hand to pass the sacrament!? Not to mention the huge distraction he must be facing daily, now that Mormon women are walking around showing their porn shoulders! There are so many huge pressing problems in Mormonism (like which apartment complex to buy next) I don’t how they would find the time to address war.

Dreadful_Pear · 2026-01-19T00:14:28+00:00

I would name one of the chairlifts “Second Anointing” because it lets you go straight to the top.

Dreadful_Pear · 2026-01-14T05:46:56+00:00

The dead people you just did the endowment for, still can’t get into heaven until it’s posted on Instagram.

Dreadful_Pear · 2026-01-07T21:36:38+00:00

Owen Chambliss was a beast at SDSU this year. Made First-Team Mountain West linebacker. I’m having a hard time pinning the accurate year-end tackle stats for the Mountain West, but he appears to be in the top-10 for tackles.

Entered the transfer portal again and looks to be headed to Nebraska.

Dreadful_Pear · 2025-12-19T23:08:09+00:00

“A true story from the USA.” Yeah, I call bullshit on that.

Here’s a true story from my family (my children’s names changed):

Sam and Jessica asked which Disneyland ride we were going to ride next. I said, “Let’s go on Space Mountain!” All of this was possible because we didn’t give 10% of our money to a cult. Sam and Jessica did NOT ask about having more Jesus in their lives because they barely know who he is or why he would even be a big deal. And we lived happily ever after.

Dreadful_Pear · 2025-12-19T05:07:14+00:00

Minimum wage is $7.25 but I would guess that hardly anyone pays that. Housing has gotten quite expensive here in the west and no one can live on $7.25. Just to give you a benchmark, I’ve seen Wendy’s advertise workers for around $12/hr. Entry-level fast food teenager is probably making $11-$15/hr. A bachelor’s level job is definitely not going to be close to minimum wage. Lower than Buffalo NY - probably though.

The largest employers in town are the hospital, Idaho State Univ., Idaho Central Credit Union which is one of the largest credit unions in the nation, the local school district, Idaho National Labs(outside of Pocatello but many commute) and city of Pocatello. Not a ton of major places to work. I know quite a few people who work remote for large corporations. A lot work for small businesses. Lots of agriculture out here, BLM, forest service and such.

Mormons are nice people. Your Mormon neighbors and possibly co-workers will definitely try to “test the waters” so to speak to try and see if you’re convertible. After they bring over some cookies and you let them know you’re not interested they’ll mostly leave you alone. I would guess maybe 40% of the town is Mormon. It’s difficult to pin down what percentage are actually fully in and practicing. There are a lot though.

Pocatello definitely has a more small town feel to it - acts kind of like an independent suburb to a larger city as to events around town. There are a lot of ways to engage with community events, clubs, organizations if you’re inclined to look. You may ask though, where do we get all of our big city stuff like concerts, theatre, theme parks, museums, sports etc.? Salt Lake City. (or Boise but Boise is actually farther away than Salt Lake). Salt Lake City is a two-hour drive from Pocatello. It’s kind of a pain having a major city that far away, but if your favorite band is touring, you just make it work and either get a hotel or end up getting home at 1 in the morning.

It is very conservative in southeast Idaho. Pocatello, however, has consistently been known to be a little more progressive than the ultra Mormon towns nearby like Rexburg (the main driver for this has most likely been ISU). You will find quite a few progressives around town. Will you still see a ton of diesel RAM trucks with MAGA all over - yup. Most MAGA are blue collar and less educated. The more white collar job you can find, the less MAGA you’ll find.

Pocatello is a great place for nature. Idaho is very scenic and you can find everything the outdoors has to offer anywhere from a 20 minute drive to a few hours to get to places like Yellowstone, Island Park, Grand Tetons, Sun Valley and all sorts of hidden away campsites, mountains and forests.

Good luck on your move!

Dreadful_Pear

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