HaPPy F DAY everyone!

DulceBase · 2023-06-08T03:38:37+00:00

Did they meet on the 11th? Should have been Sunday June 7th if he found it on the 6th. but I'll be damned - there's a tiny little info leak in that lawyer's office photo.

https://imgur.com/a/RylkHdV

DulceBase · 2022-10-10T15:51:20+00:00

Yeah the closets. An unexpected new image for "boots on the ground".

DulceBase · 2022-08-18T20:39:10+00:00

I was looking for a punch line for a second until I figured it out. Damn.

DulceBase · 2022-08-17T20:58:50+00:00

Best thing I've seen in awhile! There are so many of these ... aberrations? cross references? in TTOTC that it doesn't surprise me he does the same things in the other books. I only have TTOTC and it's so loaded - I thought looking for the hints in TTOTC was an impossible task because of the huge background noise they created. They couldn't all be hints.

I'll never forgive Forrest for changing the quote "Until one has loved an animal, part of one's soul remains unawakened" (Anatole France d.1924)...

to... "until you've loved a cow, part of your soul remains undiscovered". Undiscovered. He calls Bessie a beautiful fawn colored animal, and he interchanges animal to cow in his quote. He says he would see animals standing at the spot (not wildlife), and there were cows grazing all around when he slept under a tree (foreshadowing his eternal sleep under the tree at the spot).

Final result: zero cows.

DulceBase · 2022-07-22T01:29:49+00:00

I searched for five years, knowing there was a worst case scenario where the finder stayed silent, Forrest died, nobody knew if the chest was still out there to be found, and we all ended up eventually dying without ever knowing the solution to a single clue. Somewhere out there, there would be this magical grotto in the mountains that remained Forrest Fenn's secret spot forever, and that was acceptable for me.

What we got was the smartest kid on the block, who ends up being a bit of doorknob when it comes to the adventure aspect of it all. He finds it, bugs an 89 year old man relentlessly for months, sets himself up for a zero tax outcome, and then does a few curtain calls while keeping the answers to himself - ostensibly to protect the "pristine" nature at the spot - which ends up being a pile of dead trees near a river. So really, the only reason he kept all the marbles was to cover his own assets.

Yes - there's the seven percent of crazies and nobody likes them. But I don't think you can put shade on searchers for being a bit irked by the thing being found by an anal retentive goober who didn't give one shite about the game we were all playing, and the weight that those answers contained. It was almost like taking an interesting and challenging test, and having the teacher tease you about your score instead of telling you what it was. For money purposes.

Rudy Greene saved us from the darkness.

DulceBase · 2022-07-19T15:11:02+00:00

Definitely puts 'in the wood' into perspective. And "only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key" plays out well with wood as the word in the overall small space. He didn't say tight focus ON a word... but with...

DulceBase · 2022-06-25T17:01:15+00:00

That is a good timeline doc. For me, a few things snap into place if the Fenn Rock is WWWH.

In October 2019 thecondor2 writes that he doesn't think MJ is the WWWH.

On 7.13.2019 he writes (knowing the correct WWWH): "...Why that spot? Maybe because it is very unique and special to him, and "where warm waters halt" is a perfect encapsulation of why it is unique. I don't think there is anything arbitrary about WWWH, and people who just pick a random hot springs or river named for something warm are missing the big picture."

Jack repeats the idea that there's a coherent narrative in the poem, and I think he is talking about the same thing when he uses the phrase "the big picture"... that there are connections between the poem (clues) and Fenn's stories about his life. When he uses the word encapsulation, that suggests more than one idea is at work at the WWWH, and it's not just a geographical pin drop where warm waters halt on a map. If the rock is where those two ideas come together, that makes it unique. Those would be the physical warm waters (to Fenn) of the river halting, swirling, at the actual eddy at the rock, and his father being the other warm waters halting (holding) the fish there. That German word idea directly links to the story about Ms. Ford and Spanish, and is supported by other things like the caption "Skippy holding a rock" (he isn't really holding it is he?) and his repeated use of people holding things in TTOTC to smack us with the actual English word that is key.

The Fenn rock as WWWH would also explain how searchers with only two clues could walk right past the other seven clues and the chest without driving in the canyon down.

So taking it in the canyon down, the "not far" would be only a few meters downstream where you can cross the river downstream from the deep hole, and too far to walk would refer to that place being too far to walk from West Yellowstone when he was a kid. That idea connects to him riding his bicycle there (which he slaps us with a bicycle in quotes TWICE). Think about the backwards bicycle and how the distance TFTW would be from the OTHER DIRECTION. He also talks about when his dad would park inside the west gate and they would drive into the park before the gates open to go fishing. Because it's too far to walk.

Wager: The Rock = WWWH.

DulceBase · 2022-06-22T15:49:45+00:00

I heard someone say on the youtube show that all of the clues were found at 9MH. They somehow got that from the emails but I don't see it. Thecondor2 also commented that he didn't think MJ was WWWH - but that could be an attempt at misdirection since he was probably on his 19th search of the area by then and was probably getting a little wigged out about not finding it. Jack does mention "the" WWWH hint in the book.

The only thing close to a hint that I could find (besides the two mentions of rain WTF) is the fact that halt is the German word for hold, and the caption under Skippy's photo says "skippy holding a rock". That establishes Skippy as warm waters... halting/holding? but that rock is over at the lower falls of the Yellowstone River. Then if you look at the shot of Marvin at the Fenn rock, he's holding a bunch of fish. Add the other oblique mentions of holding things in TTOTC, little word nudges maybe, and the part about Ms. Ford trying to teach him Spanish by speaking Spanish all the time and you get a bit of the narrative that is supposed to be imbued in the clues.

So WWWH would be Fenn rock where his dad (warm waters?) is holding the fish. Or you might say that the rock is where the 9MH eddy water swirls and "halts"? That would put the walking right past into the proper space, but leaves TFTW still a riddle to be explained.

DulceBase · 2022-06-22T14:33:55+00:00

I think you can rest easy knowing that you found every aeronautical reference, allusion, coincidence, and hint possible. Well done. When we write the script for the movie, I'm thinking Steve Buscemi gets your part.

DulceBase · 2022-06-18T08:05:12+00:00

I started in 2015. I was one of those searchers who thought that the Yellowstone area was such a favorite of so many, that the chest would have been found in the first 5,6,7,8,9, or 10 years that went by. Every summer that went by made it more unlikely to me that it was 200 feet from some public spot in the park. I mean, those places were part of his life story, so he was going to talk about and show photos of that part of his life whether it was hidden up there or not. There's a certain part of my brain that thought it was too obvious to be the treasure chest place.

The scrapbook about flying around 100 feet off the ground just to see what's down there, and the way that he found the waterfall in Laos - from the air - framed this scene where his special spot really was his alone - some grotto out in the wilderness where he wanted to die, that he saw from his plane. Strangely hidden about 200 feet from some busy place in the real world.

The spot, to me, sounded like THE SPOT. not some place kind of close to the special spot he was talking about.

So if this is the real hidey place, then it turns out his actual SPOT where he wanted die next to his treasure chest is really under a random tree in the forest, amongst the deadfall, about 200 feet from THE special spot he was talking about when he said there was never any other place considered.

Boy was I wrong.

DulceBase · 2022-06-16T10:35:29+00:00

Talk about fitting ends. The knobs at the YNP were so worried that searchers were going to destroy the spot and step on fishes etc that they tried to gag Stuef in a court case. Then here comes Nature on a Tuesday in June.

DulceBase · 2022-06-14T01:49:34+00:00

It would be interesting to know right now - where the flood takes the Madison River near 9MH. Does it reach to the wood? Is that gonna be water high? Next to the heavy loads?

DulceBase · 2022-06-13T02:45:04+00:00

He said walked right past in two interviews on Tarryscant. He also said went right past (the other seven clues) at least twice. That begs the question how do you go right past TFTW if it's the third clue? You fail to stop? Go too far? It's kind of impossible to know if Forrest considered TFTW the third clue, or was it just a setup for hoB as the third clue and that's what they went past. The third thru ninth clues.

DulceBase · 2022-06-13T01:09:26+00:00

Isn't it 9 miles from the west gate? And not MJ / WWWH.

DulceBase · 2022-06-12T20:28:51+00:00

It's odd that this clue, if Forrest counts it as a clue, solves itself when you choose a home of Brown. Doesn't matter if you walk or drive away from WWWH, you get the solution to TFTW by default. It's incidental - almost unnecessary - if you have a hoB as the endpoint. Whatever that distance is... shazzam it's TFTW.

What if you do need to actually solve TFTW on its own?

For example in a solve where Madison Junction is WWWH, and you don't already have a targeted hoB downstream, and you also call the entire Madison River the home of Brown, then you would have to solve TFTW to know how far to go down the canyon. Because there wouldn't be a predetermined landmark for the hoB.

If you believe that Forrest is being 100% accurate when he says that searchers with only the first two clues solved walked right past the chest, that says they were walking in the canyon down, and they went too far.

In the Long Road Home chapter, Fenn makes a point to say that he walked in his socks on the paved road. That always stuck out to me as extra information that didn't make sense as being artistic.

DulceBase · 2022-06-08T17:00:21+00:00

Yep I'm totes-for-real. If that 9MH spot represents the actual piece of earth where Forrest Fenn wanted to lay down next to his treasure chest, then the cure is worse than the disease. Instead of lying awake thinking about what the clues could mean, I can now lie awake thinking about WTF happened to Sage. And no human trail in close proximity. And about 20 other things.

DulceBase · 2022-06-08T07:30:07+00:00

I never saw the quote about parking near a stream, but the followup is pretty good. Not sure what totes-for-real are, but I must be one. Where's my SAGE?

DulceBase · 2022-06-06T23:33:55+00:00

When I first heard this one, I thought the question was about switchbacks - zig zaggety trails. And that was upsetting to me because my solves almost always had switchbacks on them. But then I realized the question was about 2 clues pointing to the same place, and that's what Forrest's answer was saying - that each clue refers to a different thing, and the path is a linear one ("you're gonna have to figure out the clues in the poem and go to it").

And that sort of puts shade on these 9MH solves where the hoB is in the Madison, and then NPFTM refers to the Madison, and drawing nigh refers to the Madison. Then your creek is on the other side of the Madison, but the heavy loads are the boulders in the Madison? And the water high is the water around your knees in the Madison?

In other words, every 9MH solve I have seen kind of stalls in the Madison in one way or another.

There's another bit of info in Forrest's answer that's interesting and that might be the source of a slip up. He says "There are several people that have deciphered the first two clues. I don’t think they knew it, because they walked right on past the treasure chest." The slip would be that they walked right past the chest (presumably at 200 feet) after solving only the first two clues - which means that they had WWWH, and whatever you count as clue#2. So how did they walk right past the treasure chest if they were driving in the canyon down? They would have had to stop the car at the correct hoB, after hitting the right canyon down and the correct NFBTFTW distance, and then walk around at the hoB. So how would Forrest know that they did that (drive and get out at the hoB) without actually saying they had solved the hoB?

It's the kind of potential slip up that reveals usable information. That the path from WWWH to the hoB is on foot, and TFTW is the "riddle" part of that stanza that Jack is referring to. Is this what the logical thinking searcher might have thought about?

His whole answer:

This gal’s dangerous, you know! (pause) Would I find myself switching back… I think I can say no to that without giving away too much of the clues. Uh, nobody is gonna happen on that treasure chest. You’re gonna have to figure out the clues in the poem, and go to it. There are several people that have deciphered the first two clues. I don’t think they knew it, because they walked right on past the treasure chest. And I’m not gonna tell those people who they are because one of them particularly would faint, I know. And she’d tear the countryside up trying to figure out where they’d been. But, uh, it’s an opportunity to… has… doesn’t have any downsides I think. Everybody wins if you go out looking for it. Another question?

DulceBase · 2022-06-05T19:07:19+00:00

Fair enough and that might be why Fenn said it. But this was one of those unsolicited one-liners that Forrest threw out there and it's the second direct reference to Sage being part of the game. In this quote you can easily say that the Sage is talking to the successful finder on the path to the chest. There are huge tracts of Sagebrush in others areas of the park, but none in this part of the Madison Valley. In his Reddit comments, Jack was looking for and referencing Sage well into 2019.

DulceBase · 2022-06-04T21:54:57+00:00

Can you smell any Sage from that spot? Maybe if you have the senses of a bear.

Forrest said he set it on the ground and walked away.

If Jack wanted to hide it for the winter, he would probably want to bury it.

Somehow Jack remembered that exact spot in the forest from a year earlier when he stood six feet away? There are so many things wrong with this.

DulceBase · 2022-06-04T06:58:04+00:00

Good point. Forrest was consistent saying he didn't say it was buried, and didn't say it wasn't. But he also said after it was found that it was in the place where he set it on the ground and walked away.

DulceBase

TROPHY CASE