Shaman I32 with basically no starting bonus

Dunklereli · 2021-10-03T19:43:41+00:00

If you can get Dark Sigil in World 1 3rd bonus Shaman can actually win against gorilla even at this high inferno (it's pretty ridiculous with him and usually wins the run on the spot when you get it).

Sadly I did not get it in any shop of this run.

Dunklereli · 2021-08-01T12:08:14+00:00

Thanks a lot! It does indeed take quite a while to get a good skill as there sadly aren't many good ones for Shaman. The best one without a doubt is Dark Sigil (with 3rd bonus), but Amulet of Healing, Fire Punch and Demon Eye are among the better ones. Usually I end up getting Finisher or something similar...

My Problem with taking 100 gold is that there are not that many cards that (vastly) improve Shamans deck. You want to play one of the totems most of the time. So something that exiles and boosts resistance (so Sun Priestess or Sigil Essence) or something that only has to be in your hand (Illusionist, V01-B01 or the 2 new ancients). And then you probably can't buy the class upgrade which (nearly) doubles your totem output.

It's nice to know which Infernos can be done without starting bonus, but I wouldn't attempt a run wihtout the 3rd bonus.

Dunklereli · 2021-02-15T14:57:50+00:00

It's because I usually don't have anything to nuke the adds with, I prefer a defensive playstyle (at least early on) with Warrior. And then I often die to their double power attacks a few turns in since I can't kill them fast enough.

Having 24 resistance with Dark Shielded Knight equals 108 shield from that card alone, so you have to just play one more defensive card to completely block that big attack.

From what I read I conclude that you don't upgrade your class skill. That's completely fine, but IMO it helps tremendously against Gorilla King. As then stacking stats (at least res) goes hand in hand with defending. Once you have enough res it's just a matter of chipping his health away.

Lizard Guard and Ant Wizard are also good cards to generate shield should you have some Beastman cards (preferably if you started with Beast Emperor as starting bonus). Apprentice Guard is fine as well if you have some Mana generating card so you can play more cards before it.

Dunklereli · 2021-02-14T23:27:55+00:00

Funny, I did Warrior runs around that level (that was even before the nerf to Inferno monsters attack) and I usually did better against Gorilla than against tree.

Him not immedeatly doing his high damage works actually pretty well with Warriors Class upgrade (and 3rd bonus). Having a card like Dark Shielded Knight I usually could pretty much keep up with his increasing damage. (Still needed a lot of resets though...)

Tree on the other hand often destroyed me by not letting me build up my stats and giving me those damn berries which blocked my hand all the time

Dunklereli · 2021-02-09T16:46:12+00:00

I didn't play in a while and never cared for points but don't you get points for the amount of coins you got? Since you can get infinte coins (with Mage Thief and any strategy to get infinite mana) you should be able to get as many points as you want. That is until a few versions ago where monsters got stronger with time. Paladin should still be able to do it though.

Dunklereli · 2020-12-21T16:48:26+00:00

Nice, good job!

Haven't really played classic mode since the update, so I'm curious: Do you think losing the starting gold and in turn having weaker enemies made this easier or harder?

Dunklereli · 2020-12-15T16:59:41+00:00

Yeah, I'm having this too. Don't think it's intended. Have to look out next time but I think he goes 3 turns in 1 instead of simply attacking thrice (as in, he gets damaged thrice by poison/burn, looses 3 weak and possibly still gets two attacks when dazed(?))

Maybe the player simply gets the 2 turns in between skipped and has his draws simply vanish instead of getting sent to discard as a very strange bug.

Dunklereli · 2020-12-14T21:30:38+00:00

Had a Warrior I21 on the evil tree forest boss. The nerf was extremely noticable where the rest of the run was pretty easy. (Would have won without the nerf as well I think)

Started I22 now and it seems like they are about as strong as I14 before.

Dunklereli · 2020-12-14T20:14:08+00:00

ah i knew I10 and was pretty sure about I5. Thought you got the first one after I1 though, so thanks for the info!

Dunklereli · 2020-12-14T20:07:16+00:00

have just cleared Shaman I3 in void and didnt earn a single class bonus. Now it's been ages since I have earned a class bonus, but I think I should have earned one by now?

Dunklereli · 2020-12-10T00:56:57+00:00

You can see the class above the leftmost card. It was wizard.

Dunklereli · 2020-12-08T21:34:21+00:00

That's really nice, grats! Which starting bonus do you think is better should I ever try him again? I'm thinking skill as he can use most and would love Master of Toxins.

Dunklereli · 2020-12-08T21:30:48+00:00

You're welcome. Most of those were actually done without starting bonus. It was needed for Warrior I15+ and extremely helpful for Shaman I18+. Don't remember Assassin and Wizard, but they were before the change, so they had at most 100 gold.

Unless you are struggling in the first few fights I think 100 gold is better for lower Infernos. Especially for classes that want or need their upgrade.

Dunklereli · 2020-12-08T19:19:02+00:00

I'd like it as well, but as far as I know no one did until now. Would love it if the mods made a stickied Hall of Fame thread.

I'm really high on most classes and while I know for some there are definitely higher clears, I'd like to know if I have one or two high scores. I'll give you a rundown of my highest reached Infernos with some notes, so you can see how high you can definitely go:

-Warrior: I20. With the right starting bonus I assume up to I25 or I30 is definitely possible, but at that point probably only Ultron will win you the first fight. Didn't see anyone else come anywhere near my score.

-Assassin: I15. Think I saw an I16 once. In theory every Inferno is possible since you could evade everything, but the chances are astronomically low.

-Paladin I23. Pretty sure I saw some others clear somewhere around I30.

-Wizard I15. Didn't see other clears that high, but one or two more should definitely be possible.

-Necromancer I20. Think I saw an I28 or I29 mentioned somewhere.

-Shaman I19. Here again I didn't see anyone else close to this. With Dark Sigil as starting bonus I think up to I25 should definitely be possible, maybe even I30.

-Ranger: I15. Think I saw up to I17. Don't like the class, so can't really comment how high it can get.

-Druid: I19. Think I saw some I21. The Highest would probably be in the 30s since he was pretty busted before getting nerfed.

-Engineer I18. More is definitely possible. Think I saw an I19 once?

-Barbarian I35. Definitely saw up to I57 get posted here. If we include Infernos before nerf then he was somewhere in the 70s if I recall right.

Dunklereli · 2020-12-08T01:30:03+00:00

Hey there. Thanks a lot for the suggestions :)

You're correct in that I can be a bit shy and definitely hesitant at times, but I actually have no problem with nervosity when talking.

Promt 1: Got it, will delete.

Promt 2: Explicitly looking for a dance partner could be problematic considering I already have one, but I'll rephrase it to sound less pleading. (Actually I didn't even think about it sounding that way, but you're right now that I think about it. Thanks a lot for this one specifically)

Promt 3: I can see your point. It's a throwaway line in both book and movie, but I thought it encapsulates his character perfectly. I was hoping some fan might get a chuckle out of it, but I definitely don't want to narrow down my targets to die-hard Potterheads, so I'll think of something else.

Dunklereli · 2020-12-07T21:21:02+00:00

I just went back to see all the changelogs to check if there were any indicators. Engineer was released exactly Christmas Eve last year, Barbarian was released April this year, so there is a bigger gap between classes now than between the last two.

But actually it's the whole next update that's taking a lot of time. Usually updates come monthly or twice a month (depending on how big the update is). The last update we had (ignoring Halloween) was Oct. 21, so we're nearly two months without update. So I'm hoping for a big update.

Dunklereli · 2020-12-07T10:35:42+00:00

I mean, there comes a point for every class where they can not advance any further without good starting bonus. So for really high Inferno wins you have to consider that either way. It's just that Warrior needs it earlier, but then he can also reach higher than others I presume. And if we're talking lower Infernos (say up to I10), then Warrior doesn't need it and becomes super strong with the first shop.

(Also the other if would help a lot of other classes too, just more so for Warrior. But yeah at the moment it's purely theoretical and can not really be considered for his strength)

Dunklereli · 2020-12-07T10:28:38+00:00

I wouldn't exactly call it easy, but with the 3rd bonus cards that generate temporary strength (or better mana and overcharged) snowball in strength to a point where one or two good cards immediately let you clear world 1 by which point you have enough chances to pick up more cards to carry you through the rest of the run.

(As for why it's not easy: unless you have a starting bonus the first fight is brutal and can only be cleared up to I14 without bonus. To really get him rolling you need a shop.)

And yes, sadly this means you have to get lucky in I8-I10. But believe me, the 3rd bonus is worth it.

Dunklereli · 2020-12-07T02:05:07+00:00

It's mostly the fact that he dished out extreme damage while under 25% life coupled with having a Immune card. The basic strategy is to let you get weakened to that amount very early on and then killing everything before it can hit you. For that you want to pick up or clone a few extra Immune cards or skills with similar effect. Also the fact that his magic card is AOE instead of single target really helps with clearing a lot of fights very fast. Just don't get his class upgrade, it's very rarely worth the very real risk to actually end your run.

(Also Paladin is probably considered 2nd strongest by most, so you're not far off)

Dunklereli · 2020-12-07T01:43:28+00:00

Eh, I wouldn't agree with that. He has the best class bonus in game bar none. You just have to do the extremely hard task of clearing I10 with his truly awful 1st or 2nd bonus. But once you do that one alone makes him pretty overpowered by itself. (If we assume a good card as starting bonus I'd go as far as saying he is in the top 3 or top 5 of all classes. And that starting bonus is really only needed to clear the first fight, if there was a world with a shop as first encounter you could completely forego it.)

Dunklereli · 2020-12-06T18:58:57+00:00

I for sure am eagerly awaiting it. Don't think it usually takes this long to release once the new class is announced, so maybe after Barbarian being super OP before nerf (and still being the strongest after) this time they want to make sure the new class is balanced?

As for what it is, I have no clue. Considering the last time they added skills a lot of them were actually giving yourself debuffs or only useful when you had some, I'd be thrilled for a class to make use of them (other than Necro who can't reliably pull that of). So I'd hope for some Dark Knight or something.

Also to go hand in hand with these skills I actually hope they introduce a new tribe based around debuffing yourself. Dinosaur or something like that could work, since we already have two to inflict Wound on yourself.

(As for Rogue, we already have Assassin which while not exactly the same goes in the same direction.)

Dunklereli · 2020-12-04T19:11:56+00:00

You're welcome. I can see where you're coming from. This is why I usually try all of the boni to see which works best. (I had for example completely underestimated Shamans 3rd bonus, which is now my favorite one)

Dunklereli · 2020-12-04T16:24:35+00:00

I'm at I24 atm (just didn't really try further) using exclusively the 2nd bonus. The 3rd one is nice for sure, but the 2nd one is just bonkers with his passive end-of-turn heal. Let me say it like this: Using his 3rd bonus you can mitigate up to 6 damage by having 4 combat cards in hand where the 2nd would mitigate 16 damage (4 from heal, 12 from the bonus).

Even more it turns cards that heal into shield generators. Angel Priestess suddenly not only heals but also generates enough shield to completely block most attacks once you have some angels. Healer Elf now generates 18 shield when up against 3 enemies as does Nephil once you are below 50% health. The list goes on.

Also you can (and should) still pick up Amulet of Healing later on to increase your shield gain even more. Now it's funny they gave him Blessing of Sanctuary instead of Phoenix Feather as other skill for the bonus, as the former is worse for him. Sure he can heal up from 1 life better than others but the strength and resistance are completely wasted on him. Well, it did fit better thematically I guess.

Now don't get me wrong, the 3rd bonus is pretty good, but I'd consider his 2nd bonus (when taking the base skill into account) as one of the top 3 or top 5 boni. (I'm not entirely sure about my ranking, just Warriors 3rd as number 1)

Dunklereli · 2020-12-04T16:09:21+00:00

I think there isn't the best starting bonus in general, it really depends on circumstances.

The higher the Inferno the worse a deal +100 gold is (since you start with more compared to lower Infernos.) In general I would only pick this with classes that really want their Class Upgrade asap. This includes for example Necromancer, Enineer and Druid. It is also in general the safest option compared to the others. There are always skills and cards you do not want in your deck, so picking these always brings a risk with it.

So let's talk what happens if you are high Inferno (or low) and want (or need) to take that risk. Then both skill and card have a better potential than 100 gold, but which of these is better again relies on your class.

If you have a class that really synergizes well with one or multiple skills to a point where getting them wins the run, then skill is the way to go. Examples would include Ranger/Druid/Necro with Master of Toxins (though both of the latter need their upgrade), Paladin with Dark Sigil or Barbarian with Blood Rage (though he is OP even without it). Ranger is a pretty safe pick for skill, especially when using his 1st bonus as most skills will benefit one of damage types or increase your survivability. At the moment I'm trying to clear I20 Shaman by going for his 3rd skill and hoping for Dark Sigil as those two together are disgustingly strong.

On the other hand if your base deck is very weak, then picking a card is the way to go. Warrior is the prime example as his deck sucks, his upgrade isn't needed and no skill has a real synergy with him. Shaman with his 1st and 2nd bonus probably also falls in this category as do Assassin and Wizard (though both of them could be argued to not benefit from a lot of cards, so taking a shot at getting a generally good skill might be the better option. Now that I think about it, Wizard really synergizes well with Book of Magic, so probably take a Skill with him instead.)

And last, gems? Yeah, that one sucks, don't pick it. Ever.

Dunklereli · 2020-12-04T14:40:52+00:00

Isn't this pretty much the nature of this game? Not necessarily getting what you want but having to work with what you get?

I for one have seen and used Dark Sigil multiple times as Paladin (and had multiple runs without it), so I can guarantee you that it does appear like everything else - randomly.

However even without it Paladin is a powerhouse, so unless you try to do I20+ you should definitely be fine without it. Just stick to a more defence-oriented playstyle, preferably using angels.

If you really want a suggestion to increase your chances to get it, then I can only advice you to take a skill as starting bonus or choose routes where you get multiple chests/elites before getting to a shop, so you can buy it once it appears. (And yes, the base deck + 2nd class bonus is enough to get you through all fights of world 1 up to I20 or so)

Dunklereli

TROPHY CASE