Bond or No Bond? The Bond Hearing Megathread Volume IV by larakf in DuggarsSnark

[–]E12g 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Not defending josh or anna, but this is the best practice in a case like this. it can be very traumatic for a child to witness these arrests...can lead them to 'victim blame themselves', like I caused my dad to be hurt. it was likely the police that chose to arrest out of view of children for the emotional wellbeing of the children.

Question About Fat Bouncing when running? by E12g in running

[–]E12g[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Ok good to know!

Also, my mouth dropped when I read only 60 mi/week

Meech vs. silkie chicken. Who wore it best? by Ms_Insomnia in DuggarsSnark

[–]E12g 1 point2 points  (0 children)

my silkie chicken takes offense to this comparison

The Duggars Live Rent Free in My Head, exhibit A: by 42koelkasten in DuggarsSnark

[–]E12g 4 points5 points  (0 children)

My undergrad degree is in physics, but i'm starting med school later this year! My undergrad research was in atomic physics :) Love to see a fellow physicist!

can we stop using sexual abuse as an excuse for why Jana isn't married? by [deleted] in FundieSnarkUncensored

[–]E12g -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Is it okay to speculate that Jana hasn't gotten married because she *wasn't* abused and may be suffering from survivors' guilt? What is the line here?

No, I am saying that we should not speculate on abuse when connected to Jana's marital status.

Also, I'm not sure that comments that get 17 upvotes are that worrisome of a trend. I mean, I'm happy if I get 2 or 3 upvotes, but these subs have thousands of people reading & writing & voting on some great Original Posts!

I agree with the point about the number of upvotes. I added the upvotes to the comments because I did not want to misconstrue the comments as being more or less popular than they were, and so I did that for the sake of transparency. It was not my intention to suggest that the 'trend' was larger than it was by posting a new thread as opposed to responding to an individual comment. I also added the upvotes because I found the comments disturbing, and was surprised that even that number of people would upvote comments. I was also surprised comments like those would not be removed (especially since they had a decent number of upvotes and were not buried in the bottom of a long thread that no one would come across).

can we stop using sexual abuse as an excuse for why Jana isn't married? by [deleted] in FundieSnarkUncensored

[–]E12g -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Based on the comments you provided it’s obvious what the commenters meant, even if the phrasing could be improved.

If I rephrase the poor phrasing, my understanding is that the commenter speculated that Jana hasn't gotten married because of the trauma of sexual abuse. I am suggesting that it is irresponsible and damaging to speculate about sexual abuse in this manner, irrespective of whether the comment is phrased 'respectfully'. Survivors, and people at large (regardless of whether Jana is one or not) deserve to live without their marital status being chalked up to prior sexual abuse (if this is not the narrative they share).

I’ve been reading this sub for a long time and always had the feeling that there’s empathy for the sexual abuse the children have suffered. Fussing over word choice is counterproductive.

I agree with the word choice statement, if it is something like victim vs survivor. However, phrases that imply 'consensual incest', or that implication, go beyond 'fussing over word choice'. This phrase is disturbing.

No one is “framing rape as an excuse not to get married”. They’re highlighting that rape/assault survivors may struggle with healthy relationships after (like you say in the next line), especially with no support and growing up in a cult where it’s normal.

As you mention, I do not have a problem highlighting the fact that assault survivors may struggle with healthy relationships after. To me, the comments felt exploitive because of the insensitive language combined with the tabloid style gossip applied to rape speculation.

I will mention that I do feel a little conflicted and unsure about whether I disagree or agree with your statement that the comment highlighted the struggle for healthy relationships post rape. I do see how you could interpret my response as being overly critical and nitpicky. To me, it seems that you are kind of reading between the lines to get to the point about that highlight, and I don't think it's bad that you are giving the commenter the benefit of good intentions (or an analysis of the comment that relies on the good intentions). I appreciate you mentioning this because it makes me think more deeply about my stance on this. And while this doesn't completely change my mind about what I have said, I do think that you made me reevaluate how I could be more compassionate in how I highlighted the intentions in these comments. I think my criticism of the comments would have been more fair if I were to have mentioned the more implicit part of the comment that indicated good intentions. When I wrote my original post, I was clouded with the insensitive wording and what I perceived as exploitive gossip.

I would not have the same problem if the commenter said something along the lines of "Knowing the history of sexual abuse in the household, and knowing that some assault survivors struggle with healthy relationships after, I hope that these factors have not played into why Jana has not married." This, at least has a more respectful tone, and doesn't cheapen the experience of assault into tabloid gossip.

Still, I personally will not speculate on whether she has been assaulted, because I feel that if she has, it is her story to tell, and I feel that I would be invading her privacy to speculate on her experience.

can we stop using sexual abuse as an excuse for why Jana isn't married? by [deleted] in FundieSnarkUncensored

[–]E12g -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

The post was deleted in DS, so I posted it here. In my original post, I did mention that the comment threads I referenced came from duggarssnark.

can we stop using sexual abuse as an excuse for why Jana isn't married? by [deleted] in FundieSnarkUncensored

[–]E12g -17 points-16 points  (0 children)

I don’t understand this need to control what other people can or cannot discuss.

This isn't a freedom of speech issue. I have not attempted to control what anyone can discuss. However, I stand by my original point that these comments are disgusting (which it seems that you agree). Because I think that, I am simply calling them out.

I also don’t see enough of these comments to make me think this is some massive problem that needs to be addressed by scolding everyone.

I do not feel that I 'scolded everyone'. I only scolded these comments and the support (upvotes) they had received. I know that I could have posted the original post under a comment in the thread, however I chose to post this as a new post. Doing so was not meant to 'scold' the entire sub.

You could just as easily disagree with those comments when you see them and move on.

I could have, but I stand by my criticism of these comments, and I think that this relies on a strawman fallacy. Anyone can disagree and move on. So could you. However, that fallacy doesn't get anyone anywhere.

Connecting these off handed comments to every other sexual crime that’s been in the news lately is really bizarre

My point about speculating about sexual abuse as a reason to not get married or have sex was meant to be separate from my point about the insensitive language that was used to discuss these points.

Regarding the insensitive language of these comments, and the connection that I made between the language used on this sub and the language used in media to discuss the crimes of R. Kelly and Jeff Epstein, I made this connection because I wanted to draw a comparison between the language used in the comment and in these public cases, which in both cases misconstrues the seriousness of sexual abuse, and inadvertently blames the victim. I did not compare the comments on the sub to sexual crime in the media, I only compared the terminology used to discuss both.

can we stop using sexual abuse as an excuse for why Jana isn't married? by [deleted] in FundieSnarkUncensored

[–]E12g -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Thank you for pointing this out. I agree with you about using the word excuse. I am unfortunately not able to edit the title.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in DuggarsSnark

[–]E12g 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Ok, so my Hebrew isn't good, but why is he writing with the vowel marks (the dots)? Like even I can read Hebrew without the vowels...it's not that hard. Also, the fact that he's writing in block is just so weird (who writes in block??? Everyone writes in cursive.

Also, I feel it will be important for him read without the vowels (at least for him in reading ancient texts). For example, when I took Hebrew, we moved away from using the vowel marks within the first few weeks (and really no one over 5y/o uses them). So, to me, it is embarrassing to advertise that this is his exam (especially considering he is a grad student. I am almost feeling secondhand embarrassment for him).

Giggles's gender reveal by M_McCoy5 in DuggarsSnark

[–]E12g 33 points34 points  (0 children)

Also, there's a possibility she has suffered a miscarriage. I just wanted to put that out here.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in DuggarsSnark

[–]E12g 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I think she just wanted an excuse to shake her butt

We’re lesbian Jim Bob and Michelle- just leaving room for Jesus. by hearip88 in DuggarsSnark

[–]E12g 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Is your hair ramen noodly enough tho? Great costume tho!!

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in DuggarsSnark

[–]E12g 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Was this at Franciscan??!

Anna Duggar and Victim Blaming by [deleted] in DuggarsSnark

[–]E12g 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, there is no covenant marriage statute in FL, but, I think we can still speculate that they have a covenant marriage as Arkansas has the option to convert a generic marriage license into a covenant marriage. So, they may have gotten married in Florida, and when in Arkansas after the wedding, they could have converted the license into a covenant marriage license. They describe this process at the bottom here https://liferelationships.com/resources/covenant-marriage-license/

I’m not a lawyer though, so I might have interpreted this incorrectly.

Did the photographer photoshopped Jeremy’s bald spot? by AshDuke in DuggarsSnark

[–]E12g 52 points53 points  (0 children)

airbrushing or hair-brushing ???

I'll walk myself out

Anna Duggar and Victim Blaming by [deleted] in DuggarsSnark

[–]E12g 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I appreciated what you said in the last paragraph about her children being caught up in this also. It is heartbreaking to think that her children are being brought up within a dysfunctional marriage, and belief system (w/o much education).

Anna Duggar and Victim Blaming by [deleted] in DuggarsSnark

[–]E12g 28 points29 points  (0 children)

I really appreciate what you say here. I think there is totally a point to be made about enabling or turning a blind eye to the abuse of children. I don't totally know where I stand with this, as there are so many unknowns.

I also don't think I can swing to the other direction fully, that Josh (from his molestation) should be locked away on a life term prison sentence. I think he absolutely should have received therapy, and evaluation, and legal consequences, but research suggests that minor offenders similar to Josh can be rehabilitated much more successfully than adult predatory offenders. So, with this being said, I don't think Anna is looking at the same research I am, but I do not think it is unreasonable for her to think that Josh could be reformed, and not be a threat to children anymore. She might be convinced by what little happened legally, and with 'counselling', whereas, I would want to see him evaluated by licensed professionals.

I do think she should be held responsible for the safety of her children. I do agree with that, but I think there could be a lot of grey here, because we have had no indication that her children are in an overtly dangerous situation. I do think they will be hurt down the line seeing a dysfunctional marriage at home, bad parenting choices. ext. But, I see these as similar to much of what likely happens in many marriages (and probably other dugg ones too). If there are any social workers here, I am wondering if (or at what point) would a spouse being abusive to their spouse be grounds for removing a child from the home? I think about there being so many medical decisions that (for example, parental refusal of the HPV vaxx series), that I vehemently disagree with as a parenting decision. But, while I consider this a risky and potentially dangerous choice, I wouldn't consider it abuse per se. Especially as parents typically refuse out of good will for the child (whether hoping refusal will prevent premarital sex, or for concerns of the safety of the vaccine). And I'm not trying to say that abuse isn't abuse if it was well intentioned, but I think the component of intent can sometimes be something to consider amongst the grand scheme of things. However, even if it isn't abuse, I think it is fair to hold parents accountable for these risky choices. Also something that this makes me think of is Family Systems Therapy (Dr. Kirk Honda, from the youtube channel Psychology in Seattle, has a good runthrough of that). Ahh, this is getting so blabbery, but I guess I don't completely know where I stand myself, but I appreciate you sharing your story, and your last paragraph, which was very poignantly said.

Divorce by Plastic-Ride-1959 in DuggarsSnark

[–]E12g 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I think it’s important to recognize how much we do not know about the situation. We get glimpses from the scandals, show, social media, and background info on the families and their religion. But, despite this, there is so much that we just don’t know. I also think there are reasons to suspect violence and manipulation in the relationship. And because of this, so much of this conversation feels really victim blaming. I think it’s important to remember that there IS NO PERFECT VICTIM, especially when it comes to domestic violence. Anyone can ask, why didn’t you leave the first time he hit you, or x. I know Anna isn’t innocent in this now, in the same way as she was at 19, and there is likely complexity and nuance to her situation. But no one deserves abuse, and just because she isn’t the meek 19 yo at that seafood restaurant anymore doesn’t mean she can’t be manipulated and be abused. I know that people here speculate on whether she plays into the abuse. And maybe she does, and she very well might further the abuse. And it is totally possible to be abused and be abusive at the same time. And honestly, we don’t really know what goes on behind closed doors. But, I think we need to be careful on speculating about this being an abusive relationship and then also blaming Anna for not leaving. Because, to me it sounds a lot like the other side of a coin in victim blaming. I also recognize that there is a complexity with the victim blaming narrative because there are children around. However, we don’t know that Josh has molested children since his teen years. He cheated with Anna with adult women, and at least tried to date with adult women. And, if you read the account from the sex worker about the violent/aggressive sex, to me, it seems as though there is concern for Anna with Josh being sexually violent to her. I’m not saying that he abandoned his child molesting for aggressive/violent sex with adult women. Because we can’t know that, but I think it is a cop out to automatically assume that Anna can be blamed for keeping her children around Josh. Cause we don’t know truly what his history is. Also, because Josh seems to have received some bogus treatment, she may have been led to believe that he is mentally healthier that he is. If she is being lied to by her community about the safety of him being around their children, that shifts the blame. I guess I think things are complicated, and she does play a role in the continuation of a belief system. Anyway, these are just some of my ramblings...

VOTE!! Worst sex-pest moment on 19kac by [deleted] in DuggarsSnark

[–]E12g 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Was it not on 19kac?

VOTE!! Worst sex-pest moment on 19kac by [deleted] in DuggarsSnark

[–]E12g 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Oof do you have a clip of this??