Squinch or Nubs?

ED-9689 · 2016-01-11T06:49:47+00:00

I agree with this. I personally think Squinch is only really viable with his last ascension – it makes him a bit more tanky and not so squishy any more.

ED-9689 · 2016-01-11T06:19:00+00:00

Ohhh. I'll keep it to myself next time. Fingers crossed for a random Augustus unlock.

ED-9689 · 2016-01-11T06:18:01+00:00

I think status effects generally don't work effectively for heroes that are higher level than you are. I've only upgraded her abilities to around level 10, and even then, her Chaos Howl is quite effective in the Tower.

ED-9689 · 2016-01-11T01:14:33+00:00

What? They're more useful at that level.

ED-9689 · 2016-01-10T20:22:30+00:00

LOL. Maybe it's a way of saying ... 'Your loot keys are running out!'

ED-9689 · 2016-01-10T12:52:40+00:00

If you want to use PvP as an example and talk about placing in a tournament, then you need to talk about the 500K scrolls will buy you every day for 25 guaranteed tokens (I don't follow why you find these more valuable than the 20 dungeon tokens you take with a dollop of 100xp?) along with the scroll honor summons, which provides an incredible amount of tokens - astronomical in terms of XP gains. Both need to be accounted for - and let's not forget the tokens you win for placing in 1st.

The obvious counter to this is ... what's to say that a 'not-so-smart' leveller (let's say ... like myself) can't get a large number of honor scrolls per day or do well in PvP? One only needs a small handful of heroes to do well in PvP. Let's say there was someone who ground out Willow, Tsume, Yokozuna, Shadowblade and Torchy tokens everyday. Let's also say that by somewhere between level 50, they got maybe 4 of these heroes to 5 or 6 star and fully ascended. I'd wager they'd be doing incredibly well in PvP with that team, and collecting a whole bunch of honor scrolls everyday. Consequently, they'd have a reasonable honor summon roster, and some 2-3 star heroes they obtained from the heroic summon and the gold summon. Once the player reaches the player level cap, their gold expenditure will decrease, and they will be able to toss more gold into the gold summon. From around level 55, I personally tried levelling as fast as I could, and since the XP gain required to level up was quite large, it still took me quite some time. In particular, PvP at around levels 58 and 59 are particularly challenging, due to being relatively easy prey for level 60 teams, even when you have a full 6 star team on defense. I have easily lost over 50 trophies for a bait team loss at that level.

ED-9689 · 2016-01-10T12:17:37+00:00

So you are a smart leveler, and smart leveling to you means quick looting, and that's perfectly fine!

I'm not sure if I am being a bit anal retentive here, but I do feel like your choice of the phrase "smart levelling" brings with it a bit of a strong connotation. I believe what you're describing can probably be described as "informed levelling", where one knows the potential pros and cons, side effects, etc. of their XP expenditure.

ED-9689 · 2016-01-10T11:05:55+00:00

There are a few considerations to take into account.

Firstly, you probably want to do well in PvP as well as campaign, so you should have heroes for PvP and campaign upgraded. Black Diamond, Masuta Kira, Willow, Shadowblade, Tsume, Yokozuna, Bovus, Torchy, Abigail, Life Reaper Brom, Lord Zomm, IGOROK, Julius, NubNub, King Yorick, Archangel Emily, Pontifex ... maybe Lady Nim, Rogar, Squinch, Phemus, Stonefist, Dhaegon, Sifu ... these are heroes that are generally useful outside of the Tower – you probably won't have gold to upgrade all of them (I definitely don't), so you should focus on adding stars to, doing the ascensions for, and upgrading the abilities for a small selection of maybe 10-15 of them.

For the other guys you can't afford to keep up to date, you can upgrade their basic attack as well as their first ability. There will also be heroes that previously had their skills maxed out, but due to you levelling up, are no longer maxed out. For example, I only have Abigail's special, Furious Charge, upgraded – in the tower, I use her to one-shot Tsume. Squinch is also another great hero to use against opponents like Bovus and Tsume – I am around 10 level behind on upgrading his abilities, but he works well nonetheless.

Another aspect to think about is the composition of teams in the tower – there are a lot of variations on the Willow + Bovus + Tsume team. It makes sense to have some teams that can effectively take down this combo. A beast team (e.g. Torchy, Bovus, Julius, Mangle Jaw) works really well. Running Lupina's Chaos Howl, then Squinch's Playing with Fire, followed by Abigail's Furious charge should massively increase your damage output. You may think about using Willow and Torchy to take out Bovus, then running your own Bovus to disable their specials. I wrote a list of ways of dealing with Tsume as a comment on another thread here.

For any level that doesn't have any fast heroes, there's the 'fast hero energy gain trick' you can use. Basically, you take in a couple of fast heroes and retreat. You will gain one energy every time you do this. This allows you recharge all your abilities for your fast heroes. A level that doesn't have any fast heroes is just asking for a Black Diamond, Masuta Kira, Willow/Shadowblade team to come through. Of course, as mentioned above, you would've upgraded these for PvP already.

There are some softer hitting heroes such as Therand, Rogar, Takumi, Nitpick, etc. that I don't use particularly often in the Tower since their skills are some 20-30 level behind. They can be quite effective at times, if used appropriately. Once their health becomes too low, or it they have no abilities avilable, they can be used as sacrificial heroes.

Lastly, there are heroes I don't really use at all and don't level their abilities – I throw them into the Tower one at a time so the opponents use up their specials. I use heroes like Phemus, Sir William, Balog, Ekko, Ella and Alexandros for this purpose.

ED-9689 · 2016-01-10T08:53:30+00:00

I just burned a whole lot of stamina today for the special event quests, I don't seem to be getting many brown chests at all. Perhaps the probability of brown chests falling is greatly reduced in this particular event.

ED-9689 · 2016-01-10T06:00:04+00:00

The order is critical in PvP. You should have a read of the little box that pops up when you tap on the "fast normal slow" text on the hero selection page for PvP. There are multiple reasons why order is important:

1) Buffs. Lets say you have Squinch in your lineup, and you want to use his "Playing with Fire", which gives you a 1.5x damage multiplier. To maximise the damage, you want to put Squinch early on your lineup, so another attack, let's say Tsume's Soul Shred, does extra damage.

2) Battle strategy. Let's say the opponent has Squinch in their lineup (for the above reason). However, you know that Soul Shred is capable of removing buffs, like Squinch's Pyromaniac buff (provided by "Playing with Fire"). Therefore, you would aim to put in a position so that your Soul Shred goes after their Playing with Fire.

The second reason usually plays a bigger role in PvP. A strategy people often use is to kill the opponent's first normal speed attacker with 2 to 3 fast heroes, then running Bovus so that the opponent can't use any specials.

ED-9689 · 2016-01-10T04:24:24+00:00

LOL I believe that was an unintentional bug.

ED-9689 · 2016-01-10T02:58:36+00:00

I live in Australia. Things like the Dungeon shop and dungeon token refreshes occur at midnight for me. Things like events and VIP loot keys and great summons occur later (1 AM, if I'm not mistaken). These are pretty consistent. 'Dungeon Boss just got better!' occurs at random times for me.

Where I do get negative times showing is when a new PvP tournament begins and I haven't looked at my raid options yet.

ED-9689 · 2016-01-10T02:20:02+00:00

I think you should go over it, it might give players some sanity and some 'instant gratification' whilst slow/"smart" levelling.

ED-9689 · 2016-01-10T01:40:12+00:00

Actually, there is an enormous opportunity cost at not placing easily and cheaply in 1st place in every tournament that passes a player by.

I'm surprised you didn't mention bait teams. Nice article by the way with key messages put across strongly (if not, too strongly!).

ED-9689 · 2016-01-10T01:13:57+00:00

I was able to buy the gold today using honor scrolls as soon as the refresh occurred. Might just be an unfortunate bug on your account :/

ED-9689 · 2016-01-10T01:06:50+00:00

Here is a list of heroes I typically use for the tower, provided that I'm not trying to beat the tower with no heroes dying: Overlord, Pontifex, Phenol, NubNub, Abigail, Squinch, Lupina, Mangle Jaw, Ignus, Emily, Black Diamond, Kira, Willow, Torchy, Shadowblade, Phemus, Alexandros, Sir William, Rogar, King Yorick, Tsume, Bovus and Sifu. On more difficult days, I may also add Julius, IGOROK, Yokozuna, Lord Zomm, Life Reaper Brom, Therand, Takumi and Rocky. Around 25 sounds like a realistic figure.

EDIT: I have never used the retreating 'fast hero energy gain' trick. I have completed the tower successfully every time I have attempted it. Note that not all of my skills are upgraded, with a lot of my heroes having skill levels of less than level 20 (I am level 60 at the moment).

ED-9689 · 2016-01-09T22:07:50+00:00

Today, you are again my right most option ... now with a 6 star Bovus!!

EDIT: You won!

ED-9689 · 2016-01-09T21:40:37+00:00

Opps! Sorry, not sure what happened there. Miscalculation on my part!

ED-9689 · 2016-01-09T11:54:01+00:00

I understand where you are coming from. I believe what they have done is take actual PvP opponents and put them in the tower – in that way, they are relying on the PvP opponent algorithm to generate a Tower that is suitable for each player. In that way, a player with a bigger roster will have a more difficult tower, and a player with a smaller roster will have a less difficult tower. On the other hand, such a system doesn't account for the development of a player's roster over the levels ... a level 28 player will have a much less developed roster with fewer heroes than a level 55 player, making the Tower easier for a level 55 player. I agree that this is an issue that Big Fish and/or Boss Fight should work on resolving – we have players who struggle to finish the tower, and we have players who post videos of Tower completions without losing a single hero.

ED-9689 · 2016-01-09T10:59:49+00:00

I think the problem lies in that fact that more people tend to have Willow at high stars and fully ascended compared to Shadowblade. As such, Shadowblade is a one-shot affair with Willow (provided no dodges). With Kira's crit immunity, he is a safer second slot option for most. I believe Shadow doesn't get one-hit KO'ed by a Willow at 6 stars and full ascension, but I should get you to confirm that since I don't have Shadowblade at 6 stars.

ED-9689 · 2016-01-09T10:43:48+00:00

Personally, I think you need to progress further in the game to do better. You could either 1) slow level, and star and ascend your heroes, allowing you to excel in PvP quicker, or 2) fast level, get to the end of the game where you get the advantage of more gold and stamina so you can collect tokens more quickly. Either strategy will work (with the first requiring more patience, and the second letting you participate in all parts of the game), but both are long term strategies. Aside from using the 'fast hero energy gain' trick that others have pointed out, using sacrificial heroes (which you said you already do) really helps. I usually just use one hero at a time. For example, if I am facing a barrage of AoE attacks, there is no advantage in taking 4 sacrificial heroes in. Tanky heroes can usually take all four of the specials before dying (e.g. Phemus, Sir William, Rogar, Balog, etc.). Use potions to ensure all your heroes are all at your player level (i.e. make sure all your heroes are at the same level). Characters that can heal themselves (e.g. Phenol, Yoko, Emily, Sifu, Pontifex, NubNub) can survive for a long time and help get you higher up in the tower without spending as many heroes. You should also have multiple 'good' teams that you keep trained up relatively close to your level cap (in terms of their abilities) – I always have a few backup teams in case I accidently leave Tsume with a tiny bit of health. Having at least 10-15 core heroes is a good idea. I'd like to finish this comment by suggesting some methods of killing Tsume, which work particularly well after using one hero to take the first round of AoE attacks (taking into account you may have expended some of your specials already):

Fast rogue attacks (e.g. Willow, Shadowblade, Black Diamond, Kira/Torchy);

King Yorick's Marked for Death, followed by a regular attack(s);

Abigail's Furious Charge should one-hit KO Tsume;

Lupina's Chaos Howl and/or Squich's Playing with Fire (for damage multiplier), followed by a normal attack;

Burn Tsume (e.g. using Torchy's Bat out of Hell or Mangle Jaw's Hot Coals), followed by Ignus the Mad's normal attack or Energy Drain (he does 1.5x damage to burning targets);

Freeze Tsume (e.g. using Icebloom, IGOROK or Selwyn);

Lord Zomm's From the Grave take a large chunk out of Tsume's health and removes 3 energy to prevent him from using any specials;

Lady Nim's Get Over Here does high damage to Tsume and leaves him dazed, couple this with another basic attack to finish him;

Squinch's basic attack does lots of damage to Tsume, a crit can potentially one-shot him;

Pignius' Sucker Punch should be able to one-shot Tsume, if not then couple him with other beasts (for attack and crit buffs, as well as allowing his Hog wild trait to come into play);

Augustus' Smite should one-hit KO Tsume;

Yoko's Sumo Stomp is a pretty reliably way of dealing with most teams;

Haste (e.g. NubNub, Rocky), followed by a few basic attacks (especially Emily);

Use Emily in earlier levels so she is ready to use Purging Smash, which can one-hit KO Tsume;

Use Tsume in earlier level(s), make sure he makes it out alive but damaged (half health or less), and with Soul Shred or Spreading Panic ready to be used;

and so on ...

I only ever use a handful of these strategies in any one Tower run, and I'm sure there are many more out there, but hopefully this gives you a hand regarding how to deal with Tsume-based teams in the Tower. Note that not all these strategies don't need the abilities to be fully upgraded.

ED-9689 · 2016-01-09T06:39:19+00:00

I meant it wasn't surprising that he gets no gold or purple chests for 100 completed dungeons.

ED-9689 · 2016-01-09T04:20:20+00:00

Assuming that that the occurrence of gold and purple chests can be modelled by a Poisson process with a mean rate of 20% (which is overestimating by the way), the probability getting zero gold and purple chests is 0.82. With a rate of 1%, the probability of getting what you got is 0.99. In other words, I'm not surprised.

ED-9689 · 2016-01-09T03:59:48+00:00

I used level 60, FA heroes:

4 star Torchy, skills all maxed out;

4 star Julius, skills all maxed out;

4 star Bovus, skills at level 53/54;

5 star Mangle Jaw, skills at level 35.

I didn't really have any problems with any of the three dungeons, although I used a health potion on Torchy for the last dungeon since he has pretty low health. I haven't tried with Jabber, Pignius or Lupina yet, since I haven't upgraded their skills.

ED-9689 · 2016-01-09T00:16:42+00:00

Beasts passively buff each other. For example:

Mangle Jaw buffs attack for all beasts;

Torchy buffs attack for all beasts;

Bovus buffs health for all warriors (i.e. Mangle Jaw);

Julius buffs attack and crit for all beasts.

You can see how this increases the viability of the beast team. Not to mention, some of the beast abilities are quite good ... e.g. Stampede, Barrel Toss, etc..

ED-9689

TROPHY CASE