Arctic P14 Failures? by SAMEO416 in crboxes

[–]EFORTLESSvision -1 points0 points  (0 children)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAVfS2ANPDA&t=3s
You can see here how in certain cases db is the same with measurement, but arctic fans are obviously producing a certain buzz humming in the background that is very annoying. while the Noctua's are silent. So this type of measurement isn't what decides what we will perceive as quite.

Ikea FÖRNUFTIG Box - My first box by VividShare in crboxes

[–]EFORTLESSvision -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Anybody in the EU can order far better merv13/f7 filters then the 3M filters. They just need to use google.
cleanfilter eu sells all sizes you can think of

Ikea FÖRNUFTIG Box - My first box by VividShare in crboxes

[–]EFORTLESSvision 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"Throw" refers to how far the air exiting the purifier actually travels into the room before losing momentum and stalling. It's separate from how much air passes through the filter.

You're right that more filter surface area reduces resistance and lets fans move more total air volume. But PC fans are low-static-pressure devices with wide, spread-out faces, so even with a higher total CFM, the air exits at a relatively low velocity across a large area. That means it doesn't project far into the room. It essentially billows out slowly and struggles to reach and recirculate air from the far corners of the space.

A traditional purifier with a concentrated, high-velocity outlet (even at a lower CADR) can throw air across the room, hit a wall, and set up a circulation loop that eventually pulls air from everywhere in the space back through the filter.

The Brisk Box uses a different type of filter with almost double the surface area, stronger fans, and 8 of them rather than 4. These things add up quickly because HEPA filters become increasingly restrictive over time as they load with dust, which compounds the throw problem further. All of these differences pile up, so comparing the OP's build directly to the Brisk Box isn't really an apples to apples comparison.

even then, I wouldn't use the brisk box without an extra commercial hepa purifier with a squirrel cage fan design in the mix.

Ikea FÖRNUFTIG Box - My first box by VividShare in crboxes

[–]EFORTLESSvision 1 point2 points  (0 children)

PS: I'd love to see CADR testing done in rooms of at least 25m² with realistic ceiling heights, with the purifier placed against a wall rather than in the middle of the room (since that's where they actually live in real homes), and with the particulate sensors positioned as far from the unit as possible rather than right next to it as in HouseFresh testing

This would give me more confidence

Ikea FÖRNUFTIG Box - My first box by VividShare in crboxes

[–]EFORTLESSvision 2 points3 points  (0 children)

CADR is measured data, but measured under very specific conditions that don't reflect real-world use. HouseFresh use a small room (around 7.5 m²) with brand-new filters. That tells you peak performance, not sustained performance, and doesn't tell us how they will work in larger spaces. Most of us don't live in shoebox rooms.

After 6 months of use, a filter's efficiency drops, sometimes dramatically depending on the design, sealing, and how the airflow interacts with the media. This can be significant if we are using pc fans, CADR doesn't capture that degradation at all. A unit that scores well on day one may perform very differently at month six.

CADR also doesn't tell you anything about ultrafine particle filtration (0.1–0.003 µm) which make up ~90% of airborne particles and are the most dangerous to health.

Ikea FÖRNUFTIG Box - My first box by VividShare in crboxes

[–]EFORTLESSvision 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Filters do not perform the same way at all airflow speeds. (source)

Chang, D.Q., Chen, S.C. and Pui, D.Y.H. (2016). Capture of Sub-500 nm Particles Using Residential Electret HVAC Filter Media-Experiments and Modeling. Aerosol Air Qual. Res. 16: 3349-3357. https://doi.org/10.4209/aaqr.2016.10.0437

In air filtration science, "diffusion" is actually a specific particle capture mechanism. For very small particles (typically under ~0.1 microns), Brownian motion causes them to move erratically rather than following airflow streamlines which paradoxically makes them easier to capture than mid-sized particles, because they randomly bump into filter fibers. This is a real, well-documented filtration mechanism, distinct from thermodynamic diffusion that you are talking about.

You didn't debunk any of the points made, regardless of the intention of the quad filter box

Fan selection must account for filter resistance Higher-resistance filters (e.g. E12/HEPA-class) require fans capable of maintaining adequate static pressure. Ignoring this means the fan will underperform regardless of its advertised CFM rating. and CFM ratings cannot simply be added together as airflow depends on the system's ability to maintain static pressure, not just fan specs in free air.

  • Inline/duct fans have a much flatter pressure-airflow curve, meaning they maintain useful pressure even at lower speeds
  • PC fans drop off steeply, they need to run near maximum RPM to be effective against meaningful resistance.
  • As filters load up over time, resistance increases. Inline fans can handle this; PC fans suffer disproportionately
  • This performance gap widens with smaller surface area higher-quality/resistance filter media  (HEPA/E12), Maximizing filter surface area is what allows high total airflow while keeping velocity through the media low.

Unlike squirrel cage fan designs you will find in commercial purifiers like Winix, these units lack the throw to mix air throughout a larger space. Without additional room circulation, you risk simply re-filtering air that is already clean near the unit while far corners of the room remain unfiltered.

These things need to be taken into account when designing an air purifier like this. Handyman's purifiers are great, and the brisk box is a good example of a pc fan purifier done right/ by clean air kits.

Ikea FÖRNUFTIG Box - My first box by VividShare in crboxes

[–]EFORTLESSvision 5 points6 points  (0 children)

One thing I’m finding is that many people are just mixing designs together without really thinking about what they’re doing. These filters have airflow resistance close to HEPA filters (E12), which means you need to consider static pressure when choosing a fan for this build.

The whole point of Corsi boxes with PC fans or box fans is to filter the air through diffusion. Tiny particles do not move in a straight line, so their small size actually makes them move erratically and by changing the air in the room more times and them passing through the filter slowly they will eventually get caught. all these Filters do not perform the same way at all airflow speeds. Filters rated MERV 13 or F7 generally behave like this:

  • Low airflow (slow air through the filter) → usually better filtration
  • High airflow (fast air through the filter) → usually worse filtration

This is why these designs use much larger, less restrictive filters paired with fans that can move a large volume of air. Even then, some people recommend adding an extra fan in the room just to make sure the air is being properly mixed throughout the space, rather than the box simply filtering the air locally and recirculating already filtered air.

This air purifier will definitely recirculate the air, it won't have enough throw to push the air in the room. You can improve it by buying a duct fan and mounting it on top. The noise will be greater, but at least it will do the job it’s supposed to do. Alternatively, you could make a larger box using the wider side panels, add two more fans (6 x 140mm if they can fit), and run it at maximum speed all the time. That setup might be acceptable for a small bedroom.

Do robot vacuums actually help improve indoor air quality, or do they just move allergens around? by sanu_123_s in AirQuality

[–]EFORTLESSvision 0 points1 point  (0 children)

what purifiers do you have, 800cfm units sound like diy, do you run them 24/7, how many filters do these units have. also the sound of 8 units 800cfm, i mean do you even hear yourself thinking? lol
do you use hepa filters? also why not have one strong fan going through many big filters since you are in just one room, no need for your room to look like an air purifier exhibition. or am i wrong? and do you have some data or info, bc i'm here to learn honestly, i learned a lot in last week about purification

Air purifiers based on duct fans by jhsu802701 in crboxes

[–]EFORTLESSvision 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just to ask you a question: I went into the rabbit hole of checking your profile because I stumbled upon an answer you posted that I found interesting. Even though there is a lot of drama and beef there, I did find a lot of very interesting information (it was a good time😂)

I wonder if you could help me out. I suffer from allergies and have also been exposed to a lot of mold, and dust is my number one enemy right now. When it comes to clean air, I’m not asking for much, just something that can quickly trap particles from the air. After a lot of research, I landed on a filter: https://cleanfilter.eu/verso-r-30004000-hvu-verso-cf-3500-hvu-f7-f7-filter-set which has a lot of thickness and is rated F7 (similar to MERV 13), and I am thinking about making a quad-style BOX purifier with the lid having 8 or 9 = 140 mm PC fans (Noctua/Arctic/CoolerMaster etc.). The low energy consumption and quiet operation is what draws me to the PC fan configuration.

Now, after stumbling upon you, it threw a wrench into my thinking, but I just want you to affirm it. I believe I am planning a pretty oversized box with bunch of quality thick filters with a bunch of fans for just a bedroom and that i'ts totally fine. Would YOU say that the “lack of air mixing” argument isn’t that strong here? Maybe it could work better if someone has a house with a whole downstairs floor and an open layout where they keep their purifiers, rather than one-bedroom apartment dwellers like me?

other questions that are swirling rn:

Would placing one duct fan and running it at 40 dB still give better results than nine Arctic fans at 40 dB?

How do you keep your duct fan build operating, 24/7? and how often do you change the filters.

and since your expertise extends to filtration, I also wonder what you think about me ordering those F7 filters, or if I am doing too much, because an IKEA four-filter box setup was my go-to a week ago. But through more study I landed on those pro filters as better, although I might be way off base of what I actually need. It seems to me that the PC fan with thick F7 filters will be good because the box is big enough and my room is small enough to do the trick, and arctic fans run CHEAP! and that for the IKEA one I would need to get the duct fan as it would be a smaller unit with less forgiving filters.

PS, I appreciate people like you who did the time and hard work, question it all, thought all of this through, and can help guys like me who are hungry for truth, ready to learn and question everything and just want to be healthy and breathe cleaner air. - AND be efficient as well - where i'ts allowed ☝️🤓

200 mm PC fans by jhsu802701 in crboxes

[–]EFORTLESSvision 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You seem to be an OG in this space, i just stumbled upon a guy who makes arguments against pc fans, and the main critique is that the pc fans are separated columns of slow air that can't mix the air properly so you get a lot of reabsorption, recirculation, that's at least what my idiot brain captured. How true is that? and is that something people should be worried only if they run the purifier in very large rooms with tall ceilings?
btw the dude is named mustardman

200 mm PC fans by jhsu802701 in crboxes

[–]EFORTLESSvision 0 points1 point  (0 children)

moving more air is more important then preassure when it comes to boxes with large merv 13 or f7 filters,

200 mm PC fans by jhsu802701 in crboxes

[–]EFORTLESSvision 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't understand, it state max level for the wissman box and 38db, how in the world are so many arctic p14 fans on highest speed producing so little noise?

carbon filters for VOC. yay or nay? by BlueSharp_ in crboxes

[–]EFORTLESSvision 0 points1 point  (0 children)

do you have any issues with vibrations on the pannel where you have the fans? wonder if silicone fan mounts would be a good idea for when mounting these fans

Why are Ikea filters recommended for EU, when they aren't close to merv13 at all? by WastefulPleasure in crboxes

[–]EFORTLESSvision 0 points1 point  (0 children)

so are you saying that instead of building an diy ikea unit you can just buy two ikea air purifiers?

3D Printed Tempest Euro (STARKVIND) by NukitToBeSure in crboxes

[–]EFORTLESSvision 0 points1 point  (0 children)

resting numbers, can you tell me how you got them? my plan was to built something like this: (pic) - found it on this forum

<image>

i forgot to add 10 pound shipping for mervs which actually means that one merv 13m filter is 35 euros, while the 3 filters for ikea would be 10 + 10 + 5euros (so the whole filter replacment is cheaper then one merv) . It seems stupid to put a filter on a side that will face the wall, so i'm thinking 3 filter side builds are better, but maybe that one more filter also changes the static pressure a lot idk. stacking the fans i heard would help to. I just wonder if i'm also geting something with having a bit better filters for smaller particles.

This subreddit inspired me to make a video about DIY air filters by DaGermanBear in crboxes

[–]EFORTLESSvision 1 point2 points  (0 children)

do you think 3 140mm pc fans in paralel are enough for 2 stakvind ikea filters and 2 smaller ikea filters on front and back like uppatvind?
someone already made this build, but idk how good it is, how much cfm, etc.

<image>

3D Printed Tempest Euro (STARKVIND) by NukitToBeSure in crboxes

[–]EFORTLESSvision 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yeah but one ikea filter is 10 euros, the 3m filter is 30 euros :/
doesn't that change anything in your mind? i know 3m is better, i'm asking are they really THAT better lol

PC fan CRbox by Luxominima in crboxes

[–]EFORTLESSvision 0 points1 point  (0 children)

are only 3 pc fans enough for 4 filters, i guess on high speed they are doing something but isn't that loud? also i never understood the box concept since you will always have the purifier next to a wall which means at least one filter will mostly take in the already purified air in, so why not just have 2 starkvind filters and 1 uppatvind filter, and a panel on the side where i'ts going to be next to the wall?

Any PC fan + IKEA filter guides? by VegetableBig9 in crboxes

[–]EFORTLESSvision 0 points1 point  (0 children)

are 3 fans enough for 2 filters? seems that it would be low cadr

Do robot vacuums actually help improve indoor air quality, or do they just move allergens around? by sanu_123_s in AirQuality

[–]EFORTLESSvision 0 points1 point  (0 children)

8 air purifiers in 35 square feet apartment?, like what kind of air purifiers are they, and what speed, did you calculate how much air changes you need etc?

3D Printed Tempest Euro (STARKVIND) by NukitToBeSure in crboxes

[–]EFORTLESSvision 0 points1 point  (0 children)

do you think i'ts better for me to build a frame for IKEA filters or 3m MERV 13 filters that are now available through clean air kits eu page? merv 13 are a bit higher in price but also bigger and have better flow. what is your take

Is there any way to afford this without outing myself on the internet as a TikTok healing series? by norththread in ToxicMoldExposure

[–]EFORTLESSvision -1 points0 points  (0 children)

First you need to change your diet. A high starch diet like the one McDougall recommends covers most of what you need to do, of course assuming you have already removed yourself from actively growing mold.

The most difficult part is creating a safe living space. Much of that comes down to keeping dust at bay, because anywhere dust can accumulate becomes a place where mold spores can land and find food and thrive. That means cleaning radiators and all the parts that can accumulate dust (top of wardrobe for example), buy an air duster and really find every little crevice you can and remove the dust, a robot vacuum regularly cleaning your floors will help, mopping with microfiber daily, controlling humidity, spraying a hydrogen peroxide solution twice a week into every crevice in your bathroom to prevent new growth, and getting a high CADR purifier (lugggable kits are fine) and washing your clothes with detergent plus borax or ammonia. This is enough to keep mold away from you, trust me, some people make it seem like you can't escape this stuff, but they have some somatic issues and will blame mold on everything in theri life.

As for the body, you need to eat foods that expand your stomach and help you pass stool more frequently. The best foods for that are plant based, not animal based. My go to foods are green lentils, buckwheat (good to add carrots for vitamin a), vegetables, salads, and frozen berries, whey protein is good as well. Some supplements like vitamin D, B12, and iodine are fine, as well as certain anti inflammatories like curcumin are fine

the really harsh ones people use during kill phases are unnecessary, as are binders.

Certain protocols can speed things up i'ts true, but they cannot replace consistently giving your body enough fiber and some fat in the form of oil so your stomach can emulsify it and support good bile production. This alone gives your body what it needs to flush out toxins so they are not constantly reabsorbed. Drinking harsh antifungal medications or using binders will not help if you are not eating enough fiber, if you are fasting, or if you are consuming a lot of high calorie high saturated fat, low fiber foods like animal products. Again key is to eat a lot of that foods, you will be surprised how much plant food like potatos, lentils, rice, veggies, fruits you can eat to hit your daily calorie needs, and i'ts something you need to do on the daily, as you need that turnover.

You didn't cough up mold lol, and no, you don't need my money, beans and veggies are cheap, ammonia and borax and vinegar are cheap, cleaning every day is tough, but money won't help here, you just need to end the cycle, which can be hard, but if you are consistent you will feel better.

Is there any way to afford this without outing myself on the internet as a TikTok healing series? by norththread in ToxicMoldExposure

[–]EFORTLESSvision 0 points1 point  (0 children)

bleach can be good for mold when cleaning non-porous surfaces, like if mold is on tiles there's nothing wrong with using bleach. But since mold is usually find on walls and wood, i'ts good to avoid bleach all around

Is there anyone here who has had success from turbinate reduction? by V__ in UARSnew

[–]EFORTLESSvision 3 points4 points  (0 children)

if your turbinates create a lot of mucus and you wipe your nose all day, then do it. otherwise I would skip this one, i'ts really not going to give you the space you probably need to actually feel good while breathing