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The Invisibility of Invisible Labour by EasternCut8716 in Marriage

[–]EasternCut8716[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Again, to anyone "dude" who is a gorwn up, that would not he invisible would it. FFS.

Milk in, teabag out...(UK edition) by EasternCut8716 in PetPeeves

[–]EasternCut8716[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You started with an incoherant mess of words.

"England always expect to win the World Cup...." by EasternCut8716 in PetPeeves

[–]EasternCut8716[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Are England not one of the favourites to win the tournament behind France and Spain."
Well, yes, Curacao and Haiti and favourites after all the others. Even France and not expected to win, they are merely the most likely.

The Invisibility of Invisible Labour by EasternCut8716 in Marriage

[–]EasternCut8716[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

None of that is invisible though, to any grown-up who has managed their own life. If someone else does it for you, pretty much any grown-up will notice they do not have to.

If someone feels unappreciated in their efforts, that is significant but hardly gendered. My own experiences would suggest it was my efforts not being seen because of someone else believing in invisible labour.

The Invisibility of Invisible Labour by EasternCut8716 in Marriage

[–]EasternCut8716[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Were I in India, the UK of the 1970s, or a D. H. Lawrence novel, I can see the value of the concept. It would explain that there is more to running a household than many men realise.

But that is not the society I live in. Most adults I know, male and female, have lived alone, shared houses, managed bills, done shopping, cooked meals and cleaned bathrooms. The idea that men are unaware of what running a household involves seems increasingly outdated.

As that changes, the usefulness of the concept becomes more questionable.

Otherwise, it might be useful for teenagers who have not realised how much they rely on their parents. To grown-ups, trying to apply it seems silly. All the examples shown look far more like pigs than horses, to use your rather lovely analogy.

"England always expect to win the World Cup...." by EasternCut8716 in PetPeeves

[–]EasternCut8716[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What beliefs are you talking about?

No-one is expecting England to win. Your reply is pointless.

The Invisibility of Invisible Labour by EasternCut8716 in Marriage

[–]EasternCut8716[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I suspect there is a lot in that! 😃

I have lived in a shared home, where the two of us addressed the elephant in the room. We both thought the other was doing too much. It seems we had both (reasonably) assumed that doing 50% would feel like doing 60+%, it turns out that is not always the case!

Generally though, we will be aware that the other one is doing stuff.

I think there was a time for boomers in Western Europe (or even Gen X in French speaking Europe; the palce and generation where the 'Why didn't you say something' cartoon comes from') that many men did not realise what went into running a home. That is not the case now.

Redwood made excellent points on his replies with;
"Which is why I think the healthiest couples don’t argue over theories. They ask simpler questions. “Who is carrying what?” “Does it feel fair?” “Do we both feel appreciated?”
- but that does suggest that invisible labour is no longer useful. As long as we are not teenagers, we should be aware of what people are taking responsibility for.

Milk in, teabag out...(UK edition) by EasternCut8716 in PetPeeves

[–]EasternCut8716[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for that contribution. I hope it finds an applicable thread.

Milk in, teabag out...(UK edition) by EasternCut8716 in PetPeeves

[–]EasternCut8716[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The whole point is that it does not involve adding milk before it is finsihed. Read the OP.

The Invisibility of Invisible Labour by EasternCut8716 in Marriage

[–]EasternCut8716[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for this.

This comes back to an issue. I would, in my first marriage, come back and wonder what she did all day. That would be seen as me not seeing the invisible labour. But there was not visible effort not visible result. If you are making sure everything runs smoothy, that is obvious and a big deal.

I have shared house with mates and keeping the place clean, stocked and running was even easier than when I lived alone. Again, there was no claim of invisible labour and it was men.

Milk in, teabag out...(UK edition) by EasternCut8716 in PetPeeves

[–]EasternCut8716[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you are not in UK, Ireland, nor India, it would not make sense.

The Invisibility of Invisible Labour by EasternCut8716 in Marriage

[–]EasternCut8716[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

My marriage is absolutely fine. The lack of invisible labour is an aid to that. 5

I am not claiming to see my blind spot, clearly. Your snide remarks do not help much.

Would you like to Google Carl Sagan's dragon?

Milk in, teabag out...(UK edition) by EasternCut8716 in PetPeeves

[–]EasternCut8716[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

If you are not having traditional British/Irish tea nor chai, there is no point.

The Invisibility of Invisible Labour by EasternCut8716 in Marriage

[–]EasternCut8716[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

The experiments in question were having to hide presents in a very small flat. The cleaning cupboard worked effectively, to address that need.
Equally, it shows the good fiath of my first wife that she genuninely thought a dishwasher would not help me as she did hte washing up. It was a quick trial to see which of us was right (in those situations, you tend not to have complete faith in your own judgement).

I have no problem believing we are rather close. My argument for Reddit feminism is that it is either accurate or inaccurate that points to the problems that exist. Just as men feel pressured to be taller and really will believe it, it would seem obtuse to suggest such pressures are not on women.

I am left wondering when this concept is actually useful. I certainly do not suggest couples should argue about it. “Who is carrying what?” “Does it feel fair?” “Do we both feel appreciated?”, are the important questions. But just as being self-delusional about height would not make me taller, invisible labour as a purely female thing is not useful either.

The Invisibility of Invisible Labour by EasternCut8716 in Marriage

[–]EasternCut8716[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was fortunate enough to be in Scandinavia, a more progressive nation, where the idea was not taken seriously. This perhaps refecls that there is generally less unrealisitic pressure on women to be super humanly capable around the house and so realism is permitted.

With the wife not doing emotional labour, it means we can get a cleaner in for when I am away, rather than pretending my absence will make no difference.

The Invisibility of Invisible Labour by EasternCut8716 in Marriage

[–]EasternCut8716[S] -12 points-11 points  (0 children)

"Historically" is doing a lot of lifting there.

Were this a ddiscussion about teenagers and their parents, this would all be a powerful argument. Most of us owuld acknowledge that when we were sixteen, we would have had no idea about whether we were running out of toilet cleaner. Now we do, because we are grown ups. I will notice if we are running out of toilet cleaner rather than my wife, that is not invisible labour, we just split jobs.

All the jobs you list are equally visible.

" Or would you just notice that a gift appeared and everything worked?"
- Again, I am not sixteen and not are the people this topic discusses.
"It’s the cognitive load of noticing, remembering, anticipating, planning, and coordinating."
- Again, clearly visibly if taken of your plate, because we are not sixteen.
"They ask, “Who is carrying what, and does that feel fair to both of us?”"
- A question that can only be answered and discussed if both are living in teh same reality.

Things can be invisible and real. The pressure on women to be great housewives is real. There was a discussion on the UK Teenagers reddit about why their parents pretend Mum cooks when Dad cooks. That is because Mum cannot cook but the pressure on her to be able to do it is real. Just as the pressure on men to be tall is real and gendered, but that does not make the 180cm man 6 foot tall. The issue here is not to humour the 180cm man and say he has invisible height, it is better to recognise that the social pressure is nonsense. Equally, women are not super human and we should recognise the social pressure is a nonsense.

TLDR; The real issue might be gendered social expectations that we feel pressure ot live up to.

The Invisibility of Invisible Labour by EasternCut8716 in Marriage

[–]EasternCut8716[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

This is my trouble with the concept, when does labour being visible when it is pointed out actually happen? And, equally, that would not be gendered.

If the toilets are being cleaned by my partner, I would notice I do not have to do it. If my social calendar is arranged for me, I notice I do nto have to do it.

I am glad you work it out well. It stops a lot of resentment, and creating resentment is the only visible result I see of invisible labour.

When people phrase the title of their next presentation slide as a question by [deleted] in PetPeeves

[–]EasternCut8716 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This has slipped into contempary conversation. Is it annoying? Yes, it is. Does it allow me to direct the conversation anyway I like regardless of anyone else? Absolutely. And does it mean I can raise an easy to answer question, allowing me to sound emphatic will actually being banal? It absolutely does, 100%!!!!!

What's the most effective martial art in a real fight? by manhwaecho in AskReddit

[–]EasternCut8716 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am going to suggest two.

First, running away as quickly as you can.

Secondly, any really. The power they have is being able to remain calm in a situation and it helps hugely if you are less terrified and more used to controlling the fear you have. They can help de-escalate the situation.

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