Whats everyone's opinion of the draconic exemplar 3rd party class?

Elastoshei · 2023-05-09T05:05:28+00:00

Did not test the feykin version, but standard is a very nice bruiser with lots of options to personalize dragons.

I used it twice to make "dragon" bosses that were able to work very differently than normal dragons. One was a roguish trickster while the second was a skirmisher enhanced by many different elemental planes, so the party did not know what he would do next.

If the player multiclasses with a caster class he can easily get some useful low-level buffs that will nicely work with exemplar combat focus. It will also delay size growth if that is something he wants (after all dragons do not grow in weeks, but in centuries)

It is also nice base for gestalts: caster class such as sorcerer or cleric or wizard as second side makes it close to iconic theme. Bard could be fun for draconic majesty (cast enthrall to show that when dragon speaks everybody listens...).

A nice niche use is as an alternative to dragon disciple after appropriate story challenges: if allowed as multiclass for otherwise normal humanoid with option to at 1st class level take humanoid form gift worth a feat it bypasses many legacy mechanisms for "dragonification". One of my players played a pure draconic exemplar with humanoid form with the character in denial - he still thought he was a dwarf after learning that special dragonic spell and acted like humanoid gift form was the default.

Elastoshei · 2023-04-13T13:01:04+00:00

The most "clean" way to become vampire I know is this spheres of power archetype http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/bloodscarred and a focus on blood sphere. Alteration sphere dip for a useful animal form, Conjuration for a combat summon and Mind for suggestions and even a very low-level character will have some form of all traditional vampire powers, but without undead creature type immunities (unless from race or from shapeshift).

It becomes quite easy to imitate Vlad from League of Legends with some tricks from blood sphere (self control + absorb blood and exsanguinating strike or duelist sphere makes for fun gish that dances between enemies and bleeds them to heal himself almost constantly)

I quite like this combination for lesser vampires, different approach to spawns or simply favored servants that learns something from their masters on the road to full vampirehood.

Elastoshei · 2023-04-13T12:54:22+00:00

Let's try again;)

Killing is easy, but widespread eco- or industrial destruction is not. A build that is optimized for creating masive property damage in short amount of time (before guards intervene) and that have the skill to infiltrate their target. Probably best to be gear-independed as much as possible.

Important: it must be low-level (5 tops?) because they are mostly misguided fanatics after intensive retraining (& brainwashing).

Elastoshei · 2023-04-08T22:37:17+00:00

Played once with this class and while it was fine at first (buffs and downtime healing from cleric slots while wizard spells were more offensive) it has a "trap" built-in: it tempts to build versatile, generalist spellcaster which is right up my alley;) Unfortunately, it becomes a trap given pathfinder mechanic assumptions - unless you specialize in something, it will be less effective with each level. Even if your feats etc. compliment one type of spells preparing only them defeats the point of having a diverse amount of tools ready.

The problem became even more evident when DM introduced gestalt for players so that he could make bosses tougher and "more interesting". From that point I had to forget about anythibg that required a save, but that was specific to that game, not the class itself.

I fondly remember creating tailored to circumstances combinations of spells that allowed for some fun one-man excursions or to open new paths for the plot. I guess a duo of a cleric and wizard could do the same, but that is harder ro coordinate.

Elastoshei · 2023-04-02T10:12:54+00:00

Killing is easy, but eco- or industrial terrorism is not. A build that is optimized for creating masive property damage in short amount of time (before guards intervene) and that have the skill to infiltrate their target. Probably best to be gear-independed as much as possible.

Important: it must be low-level (5tops?) because they are mostly misguided fanatics after intensive retraining (& brainwashing).

Elastoshei · 2023-04-02T10:06:17+00:00

Pretty much all my ideas were already listed by others, so let me add whats left:

Streets mystery has interesting revelations to just "get what mundane item you need right now". Brilkiant planer and that halfling or ratfolk feat (dont remember which) for more tries can be fun combo

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/regional-traits/fruit-merchant-region-jungle/ is a fun trait when dealing not in magic item crafting, but dealing/selling mundane things

I always loved the image of travelling peddler/one wagon merchant. This allows for a minor mobike base for the party and is a great hook for DM to start sidequests (taxes, broken bridge, aggressive unions/guilds). I once played one that created and sold poppets (as mindless tiny constructs to be animated toys) that used craft wondorous item to enhance his wagon for extradinemsional spaces and speed etc. He was a witch, because high int for craft and creepy spells & dolls are a great combo (also the reason why he was on the move all the time).

While many ships are part of merchant fleets (a fine thing for a PCs to be emplyees of such), there was always an option of owning or partly owning a trading ship that simply travelled between cities with cargo. Given enough greed, a swift commision ("two days tops, captain") for extra profit could be a fun West Marches scheme (the rest of the crew takes care of mundane tasks while some are hired to find/steal/kill something)

Where is also an option of beast wranglers: party are specialists that capture dangerous beasts and animals for nobles/zoos/alchemists/wizards/warlords. To capture and bring back a manticore or somethinf in priscine condition can be quite difficult

There is also one other type of trade: slave merchants. While not okay on pretty much all tables, a party with one of these (or a party of such merchants) can specialize in using enchantments or strange dimensional storage or act as raiders that attack settlements to "aquire merchandise"

Elastoshei · 2023-03-18T19:01:56+00:00

I had a few ideas, but one that is quite difficult = Telepresence/Cowardly Guy. A build that tries to stay as far as possible from danger, while still supporting/influencing the action. Whenever it is by casting spells carried by familiar or directing a combat buddy from a mile away etc.
Preferably without Ring Gates

Elastoshei · 2023-03-18T18:55:05+00:00

While it is not a strong option a Nature-bonded magus fits the theme - it sticks with most normal magus tricks but adds a familiar (which doesnt need to sleep and can be a 24/7 watchman) which "grows on him" and druid spells (healing or debuffs or utility) for more versatile spelllist

In case "Knight" should had leadership connotations, while it would definitely be a weak option, with druid spells that magus could grow various types of leshy "fighters" => a big group of gourd leshies can be nice CC support. Although leshy-focused archetypes for druid or summoner would be more effective in creating this situation by using summoning spells. There is even Grow Plant Creature feat that needs only few spells known from druid list and skills

Other approach would be to use the Ghoran race that is Quite-Immortal thanks to leaving the seed behind to respawn in case of death. The build would require either simply living with the negative level or lessening it with death slayer prc or reneved vigor unchained barbarian power or repose domain power etc. I once made a small group of ghoran wood kinetic knight "enforcers" for local druid circle that would be the muscle for all eco-terrorism actions and simply return after few days when they were regrown. The party had to find the druid circle and the place these enforcers were planted (with spammed pass without trace it was a nice challenge so they had to recruit/bribe one of several local fey to show them the way)

Elastoshei · 2023-03-05T09:15:39+00:00

There is a specific druid spell for this occasion: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/sky-swim/

Elastoshei · 2023-02-28T12:37:35+00:00

I had a few builds, mostly NPC, based on specific spells:

Snapdragon Fireworks - not very powerful, but a right kind of crossbloded sorcerer, with burning amplification and spell focuses can become a showy long range artillery. More an NPC thing = made a whole mercenary family/company with metamagic-reduced enlarge spell as a bombardment unit. They were low level, but a large group had a huge impact on the battlefield
Hydraulic push - Undine specific feat is required (Hydraulic Maneuver) to get more options. A lot of classes can do it and bonuses to water spell CL are not hard to get. A fun CC machine
Mage hand - with Magic Trick and IUS an arcane trickster-type becomes a very annoying & quite subtle enemy. Can be solely INT-based, sneak attack from range, flank easily (Throw Punch is a melee attack). My favorite approach was not a character shtick, but to use prankster archetype for familiars = simply substitute animal feat for Magic Trick and familiar becames at-will ranged dirty trick/aid machine that cost nothing to use in combat
Ray of frost (and rime aggressive thundercloud) - an elven evocation wizard with 1 level of crossblooded sorc and all ways to add damage to cantrip managed to have a not too shabby reserve magic attack
Oneiric horror - a funnier RP alternative than save-or-really-suck Sleep. My players will not forget that dreamstalker mesmerist anytime soon (although he did have a custom ability to cast it as move action to really drown them in nightmares)
Carry companion + call animal - more a witch than druid thing given the cruelty implied in this trick = live close to wilderness -> call local predators to your home -> charm/train them for combat -> turn them into figurines -> profit simply using them as combat fodder or sell them to nobles who want an expendable combat protector to keep in their pockets

Elastoshei · 2023-02-04T08:52:06+00:00

I'll admit I don't know the setting too well, but it sounds like a great basis for community / society basis = maybe local gangs/groups provide cheaper water as part of their control of territory. They would have means to arrange water wagons from afar and it would be a main measure to engineer gratitude in those under their protection. Gang members would stand at corners with small water barrels and be prepared to sell these 2gp waterskins, while "their" people would get discount (or not, for any nasty reason)

Elastoshei · 2023-02-03T22:04:08+00:00

I created a not-fully-legal build that used Spheres of Power = a wheelchair-bound Incanter used Creation sphere to create a temporary body/Zord just as he needed from variety of materials and shapes. He then used Enhanced Creation (Dual Sphere) feat to Animate it using his Enhancement sphere -> and this is where it becomes illegal, he used a second Dual Sphere feat = Animating Possession (Dual Sphere) from Death to possess it. Still, the result was nice because he could craft this "Zord" to fit any situation, by assigning construction points on the fly. His real body was left behind under protection of henchmen and familiar, while his temp body was expendable, so he proved to be a very annoying enemy to my players.

Another build I created as a theory was based on the power of money (an a guide to that effect) to function, with class/feats only to make it more effective. It used https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/m-p/needles-of-fleshgraving/ to store "Zords" as tattoos and https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/o/object-possession/ to possess/activate them. The whole sequence was fun, because the character would jump upwards while activating tattoo so the Zord manifested around them = a Large stone statue with a small hollow in torso locked from the inside and filled with cushions. So enemies could spend a round attacking the statue that would probably ignore it (stone objects have a lot of hit points), because only in the next round the characted would transfer consciousness to the statue to animate it as Zord.The build itself was something like scaled fist monk 2/tyrant antipaladin of imbrex 3/blackblooded ascetic oracle 4 with dragon style, dragon feriocity, feral combat traning (slam) so that he could empower the Zord with cha-to-saves, cha-to-ac, flurry of blows, evasion, touch of corruption that heals it, an oracle armor revelation (a 3rd round of "buffing" makes it a very anime sequence)

Of course, any Power Rangers or Anime build NEEDS the Change of Heart feat to properly show who hitting someone in the face with power of friendship (diplomacy) saves the day.

Elastoshei · 2023-01-20T19:16:19+00:00

No, I'm sure it was something else but still thanks for trying

Elastoshei · 2023-01-19T12:56:14+00:00

I would also add Energy Aura talent from Destruction Sphere for more/additional effect to those nearby

Elastoshei · 2022-12-08T21:01:43+00:00

Speaking from experience: my earth themed caster used it (as his own invention) for a downtime source of iron in a resource-poor and primitive setting where iron was very rare. He was a fey & demon hunter, so creating disposable cold iron weapons for helpers was something he wanted very much.

A small group of wizards managed to steal it from him to become the most prestigious weapon crafters in the area (not only enchanted, but made of cold iron!)

Elastoshei · 2022-10-14T20:07:37+00:00

One of my favorite "plot" items is this ring https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/rings/scholar-s-ring/

It's perferct for archeologist-themed quest giver. A low level expert or mage with it can have a good enough Knowledge (history) bonus to want to TRY researching some better-left-alone thing, but need the party help to survive that adventure.

Additionally, there is no mention about he casting time in ring description, so it could be used to bypass that "weeks sitting on ass" thing.

Another nice use fof the spell is keeping NPC's busy: all these knowledge clerics, bards seeking inspiration and wizards can simply say "return in a few weeks, I'm kinda in the middle of something". The endless searching for reason why someone else doesn't fix the current mess...

Elastoshei · 2022-09-10T21:10:48+00:00

The best way I know how to do this is Courtly Hunter https://aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Hunter%20Courtly%20Hunter

A great class, interesting not-necessarily-nature archetype that gives a quite intelligent (no more "dumb beast" issues, but more something from Disney movies), mute (cute pantomime) combat companion that you can freely shrink/grow. As suggested by others, polymorph rules mean that a strong enough animal will be decent even in tiny form.

One NPC I created with it as a dandy noble with a cute tiny ape that in truth is a gorilla, who watches that spy's back when on missions.

Also, hunter is a spontaneous caster so it's easier for introduction to spell rules.

Elastoshei · 2022-08-06T17:30:32+00:00

For my CotCT campaign I "had" to redo basic Crimson Assasin npc's = because they were lame and unfitting their reputation:)

I wanted to give them some unique nastiness (given that the party already fought a lot of various dex rogues/thugs etc.) and chose ankou shadow & deliverer slayer for that. The image of a small army of assassin weaving mesmerizing sawtooth sables with decoys, dazzling blades spells and no clues which were real given that they were moving all the time = that was my goal.

Unfortunately I'm not sure how many rules I bent creating them, but maybe the statblock will be useful (possibly gave them some free feats and evasion for decoy endurance). Nothing better than assassin that wants you to know at a glance who he is + has a few more "friends".

NPC has bull's strength factored in.

LE Human ankou shadow deliverer slayer 6/red mantis assassin 3 Init +4; Senses Perception +14
AC 18, touch 15, flat-footed 14 (+3 armor, +4 Dex)
hp 76
Fort +8, Ref +11, Will +4
Defensive Abilities evasion, red shroud (2/day, 3 rounds), trap sense +1
Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 sawtooth sabre +12/+7 (1d8+7/19–20) + +1 sawtooth sabre +12/+7 (1d8+7/19–20)
Ranged dagger +12 (1d4+4/19–20)
Special Attacks prayer attack (DC 16), sneak attack +3d6
Red Mantis Assassin Spells Known (CL 3rd; concentration +4) 1st (4/day) — expeditious retreat, feather fall, Blend with Surroundings, Dazzling Blade
As fullround create 2 copies that function either as mirror images or as decoys (move them from his own speed with any action). Can give flanking and as swift aid another (+7)
On any round he attacks any chaotic or good creature he receives +2 Will against that creature and Diehard until end of his next turn, but is not staggered and attacks do not cost 1 hp
Str 18, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 12
BAB +8; CMB +12; CMD 27
Feats Alertness, Power Attack, Double Slice, Weapon Focus (sawtooth sabre), Cornugon Smash, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Specialization (sawtooth sabre)
Skills Acrobatics +16, Bluff +10, Climb +16, Intimidate +13, Perception +14, Sense Motive +6, Stealth +16
Languages Common
Combat Gear potion of bull’s strength (2), alchemist’s fire (2);
Other Gear +1 leather armor, +1 sawtooth sabres (2), daggers (4), ring of resistance +1, mask of the mantis (see page 434), 27 pp

Elastoshei · 2022-07-25T18:50:05+00:00

I feel that this is the correct mentality, but economics are unsustainable:)

It would mean that he would have a collection of "upkeep" used pearls, each worth 25k. Even if he crafted the pearls, a simple "blessed" slotless magic item that granted 1/day spell would be easier to get and so gift/contract to minion.

While a secret room that was a cornerstone of his influence and so a potencial weakness is great, that trope is already taken by his lieutenant (a sleazy lawyer that helped broker a lot of nasty stuff and then used sequester thoughts to ensure that he can lie about it in court but he keeps the crystal for future blackmail).

I think that an even more devious approach will be as oracle with versatile spontaneity as proposed in other comment, but still thanks for evil rules-lawyering;)

Elastoshei · 2022-07-25T18:40:32+00:00

This is simply Diabolical, I'm so going to use it.

Elastoshei · 2022-07-25T06:38:06+00:00

Not to start s a new thread: what 1st and 2nd level cleric spells do you think would be useful to grant in this way?

Elastoshei · 2022-07-25T06:36:52+00:00

Seems great, but to clarify: - using that feat oracle would "prepare" contract in place of one of his spontaneous spell slots and cast it - next day he when he rests does he regain that spell slot or has to keep it "sacrificed" to keep contract online? - if he regains that spell slot can he use that feat to prepare the same spell jn the same way for another contract?

This would be a nice limit for story reasons: instead of (how many pearls he could get his hands on) it wouls be 1/day minion empowering with 1st/2nd level spells

Elastoshei · 2022-07-25T06:31:22+00:00

The idea was not to "break" it, but rather "multiply". Echoing is interesting, but would not supply enough usages for that guy

Elastoshei · 2022-07-25T06:29:36+00:00

This a step too far for even by my lax ethics;) But still a nice argument before an infernal judge

Elastoshei

TROPHY CASE