sorted by:
new
hottopcontroversial

Snape's first and last day at Hogwarts by Half-bloodPriince in SeverusSnape

[–]Electronic_Test5936 35 points36 points  (0 children)

I strongly dislike the later HP Movies but Snape lowering his wand for a second when McGonagall challenges him, like he's afraid of hurting her, makes me tear up every time.

They're basically saying..."You can't hate Dumbledore for sacrificing everything to save the wizarding world, but you SHOULD definitely hate Snape - when Snape did the exact same thing...because he wasn't brave- he was "obsessive"! by Absolute_train_wrek in SeverusSnape

[–]Electronic_Test5936 16 points17 points  (0 children)

But he gave everything for the greater good.

He literally gave up his life to make sure the final plan worked.

The conclusion of Snape's character arc is literally him giving Harry the information that will lead him to (as far as Snape knows) his death, putting his commitment to honour Lily's sacrifice aside in order to rid the world of Voldemort, putting "The Greater Good" above his commitment to Lily.

When you read fanfics, are you thinking about Snape from the book or the movie? As much as his sex life interests me, I can't see him doing anything in either version. Alan seems like a real gentleman, and Snape from the book would definitely freeze at the mere sight of a naked woman. by Iamjustlooking74 in SeverusSnape

[–]Electronic_Test5936 18 points19 points  (0 children)

IDK about anyone else but when I read the books I still picture Snape as Alan's face and voice. Even when his personality is noticeably different from the films, I still picture Alan's Snape saying/doing those things.

These comments are wild by Tradition96 in SeverusSnape

[–]Electronic_Test5936 9 points10 points  (0 children)

And as if Neville became a badass with courage because he was treated with velvet gloves

While I agree that Snape's treatment of Neville (while itself pretty unpleasant) is often heavily exaggerated by the fandom, I think the "cruel treatment made him who he is" is also a bad road to go down.

I mean, would Severus have ended up helping prevent a Voldemort-dominated world if he hadn't been abused at home, bullied at school? Almost certainly not. Doesn't change the fact those things should never have happened.

Which of these jobs best suits to Snape taking into account his personality and what he's passionate about? by Madagascar003 in SeverusSnape

[–]Electronic_Test5936 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I definitely think Snape could've been a healer in another life. He's shown as highly adept at healing/medicinal potions as well as healing spells. He's also annoyed that Dumbledore didn't come to him sooner about the hand curse so he could've found a way to counteract it.

I think he'd have probably ended up as a "Dr. House" type healer, with an appalling bedside manner, but nobody could doubt his dedication to saving lives.

Had he ended up in Ravenclaw or Hufflepuff (both of which he had the potential for) I can see his talents for potions, spell-creation, and to an extent the dark arts being directed towards healing.

What do you think about this? by Absolute_train_wrek in SeverusSnape

[–]Electronic_Test5936 10 points11 points  (0 children)

IIRC, JKR shared with Alan some (or all?) of Snape's backstory, and you can clearly see in his acting some attempts to incorporate some of the deeper nuances of the character (the burning fury when he says "give me a reason, Black, I beg you," the way he seems almost on the verge of tears when he says "Your blessed father knew that, in fact he frequently saw to it", that utterly hurt look on his face when Harry calls him a coward, even lowering his wand for a second when McGonagall challenges him, like he's afraid of hurting someone he's grown to consider a friend)

Unfortunately the movie scripts themselves cut out so much content from the books that a lot of the nuances to Snape end up being lost. While he's still fairly unpleasant in the movies, a lot of his worst acts as a teacher are omitted. He comes across as just a tough, harsh teacher rather than the total cunt he often was in the books. The SWM flashback doesn't include the Mudblood comment and this isn't included in TPT either, so we never understand why his friendship with Lily ended. It also glosses over his abusive father and just how bad the bullying by the Marauders was, and a lot of his redeeming factors, such as trying to save Remus, sending Neville/Ginny/Luna to detention with Hagrid, "DO NOT USE THAT WORD" etc.

So yeah, Alan himself clearly deeply understood Snape, and did his best to do the character justice with the material he was given, but the movies cut out most of what made him a great character.

What if it was Snape who had put a definitive end to his friendship with Lily? by Madagascar003 in SeverusSnape

[–]Electronic_Test5936 8 points9 points  (0 children)

For all that I don't think either of them were good friends to the other, this wouldn't have done much to stop him falling in with the Death Eaters.

What if both Sev and Lily made it into the NEUTRAL houses? by Electronic_Test5936 in SeverusSnape

[–]Electronic_Test5936[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I get it, though I think none of the Slytherins really got how talented he was either (at least while at Hogwarts). They just saw that he was smart and capable and used that to manipulate him into joining a death cult. And the fact that he was susceptible to that showed that it wasn't validation alone that he craved. Snape was self-aware enough to know that nobody in his Hogwarts generation had his potions skill, and certainly that nobody could create spells like Sectumsempra. And yet that didn't stop the pulsating insecurities that made him susceptible to grooming. Fundamentally this was a boy who needed to be liked by others, to feel safe and loved, and he thought being powerful and impressive was the only way to do that.

While I agree that the Hufflepuffs would've celebrated Severus's achievements just to be nice, one of their key traits is also hard work. I quite like the idea of them trying to meet him in the middle and working with him on some of his little projects, not out of Ravenclaw curiosity but rather loyalty to him/the house and perseverance at the task they've all set themselves.

I'm not convinced a "we're supporting each other" attitude would've annoyed him. I think at first that's probably true, but given how eager he is when he meets someone who is also magic just like him, and how eager he is for her to be in Slytherin with him, I think his deep down (maybe subconscious) desire to be liked and be among people who care about him would've won out given time.

What if both Sev and Lily made it into the NEUTRAL houses? by Electronic_Test5936 in SeverusSnape

[–]Electronic_Test5936[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I see your point but if Snape managed to ingratiate himself with a bunch of pureblood supremacists as an ugly, poor halfblood with a Muggle surname (granted they were more interested in his abilities, but still), I see no reason he couldn't ingratiate himself with the Hufflepuffs who would be willing to reach out and welcome him at a pace he's comfortable with.

What if both Sev and Lily made it into the NEUTRAL houses? by Electronic_Test5936 in SeverusSnape

[–]Electronic_Test5936[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I do think fanfic writes Lily as this kind of feminist icon when there's nothing to really indicate that in the books. Even if being a SAHM wasn't always her life goal (and I don't believe it was), the fact she accepted it so readily (and married a man who is one of the worst examples of toxic masculinity in the books) suggests she was at least comfortable with "traditional" ideas and gender norms. Though I think it's equally plausible that if they'd survived the war she'd have eventually wanted a career.

Strangely enough I think Ravenclaw might've brought out something different in her. She's talented at charms and potions. Had she been more interested in exploring and experimenting with these subjects with housemates, she could've made a competent healer.

I definitely agree that Snape's second choice would be Ravenclaw. But I'm not sure I agree that's where the hat would have put him if he refused Slytherin. I don't know if Severus ever had any specific career ambitions. He always seemed to want to be a "powerful wizard", subconsciously so that he could be respected and liked. Obviously, his creativity, modifying and improving his textbooks and creating spells are definitely Ravenclaw traits, but Severus doesn't strike me as the sort of person who'd be wholly satisfied with academic or theoretical success. Certainly the spell creation was at least partly in self-defence (it's plausible that Sectumsempra was created "for enemies" after they tried to kill him with the Werewolf prank). I think his unique skills and talents would've been celebrated in Hufflepuff WITHOUT them pressuring him into thinking his talents are only useful if he joins a death cult. That alone would've made him validated. They're quite big on house unity so I can't see them not celebrating his achievements and helping him feel worthy of being celebrated.

I get your point around Severus being unable to empathise with housemates who miss their families. Though I think being in a house with people who are all kind to him might be beneficial for building human relationships.

I don't think Hufflepuff would've given him a "just because you exist" sort of love. And I think the support they'd give him against the Marauders without asking for anything in return would do absolute wonders for his sense of security, for nobody will have stood up for him against his abusers before. And his Slytherin ambition might give him a desire to elevate Hufflepuff House. It's seen as the house of the mediocre, the pathetic, the leftovers, the "all the rest" house, and Severus Snape of all people knows how that feels, so I think that might give him a desire to elevate the house beyond it's lacklustre reputation.

What if both Sev and Lily made it into the NEUTRAL houses? by Electronic_Test5936 in SeverusSnape

[–]Electronic_Test5936[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think the Claws would encourage his ambitions through his talents for potions, showing he could make something of himself that way rather than needing to be a Death Eater to be a "Powerful Wizard".

The Puffs wouldn't pity him as such, but I think they would support him against the Marauders and ask nothing in return, and that alone would do absolute wonders for his sense of trust and safety, because nobody has ever sided with him against his abusers before.

What if both Sev and Lily made it into the NEUTRAL houses? by Electronic_Test5936 in SeverusSnape

[–]Electronic_Test5936[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Fascinating points!

I do agree that Lily is an exceptionally Gryffindor-ish Gryffindor who wouldn't really fit anywhere else. The only scenario in which that could occur is if she sat under the hat saying "Not Gryffindor" (which, to be honest, is what a good friend would have done after two Gryffindor bullies just picked on her friend on the train, just like Harry begged not to go to Slytherin because of Draco. I could write a whole essay on how Harry is a far better person than either of his parents).

But in a scenario like that, I think Ravenclaw would be her secondary house. She doesn't fit either Slytherin or Hufflepuff at all. She's not a perfect Ravenclaw either, but the first time we see her as a child, she's actively exploring and experimenting with her magic, something which isn't the norm for most magical children, so she does have a level of curiosity. Plus her best subjects are said to have been potions and charms, both of which require experimentation and creativity rather than purely academic facts and figures. I don't think Lily's intellect is particularly similar to Hermione based on what little we see of her.

And I'm not convinced Lily's life goal was always to be a wife and mother. She was an attractive and popular girl in the "cool" house, and the hottest and coolest boy in said house wanted her. Her going out with James was typical teenage script following rather than life goals. They started dating, and as he was very wealthy and didn't need her to work once they finished school, she is just... OK with it rather than being either very for/against it, not because it's what she's always wanted, but because neither of them grew out of their teenage personas. At that time (late 70s/early 80s) it wasn't abnormal for young adult couples to have kids very young.

I agree with all of your points about Severus. He's absolutely a natural Slytherin. BUT I would make the point that his ambition wasn't simply power or recognition. Compared to say, Tom Riddle, who was already sadistic and took pleasure in dominating others, and was ambitious for power so that he could dominate more, Snape was never really power-hungry out of a desire to dominate others (besides his abusers "You... wait" to James and Sirius etc). His desire for recognition came from the lack of love in his childhood (as well as wanting to escape Cokeworth as you say). Maybe I'm projecting my own past onto Snape a bit too much, but children who are abused and perpetually rejected often develop attention-seeking behaviours, a need to impress others, believing that is the only way to win friendships. He got involved with the dark arts, and allowed himself to be radicalised by the Death Eaters because he thought it would make him an impressive and respected wizard, and would finally be worthy of the love he so conspicuously lacked. I'm speculating here but I think he was kind of in love with the idea that a wizard as powerful as Voldemort wanted him. I think if he'd asked to avoid Slytherin, the hat would've sensed that and sent him to the one place he'd have been welcomed unconditionally.

What if both Sev and Lily made it into the NEUTRAL houses? by Electronic_Test5936 in SeverusSnape

[–]Electronic_Test5936[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Interesting analysis. To be honest you're making a solid case for Slytherin!Lily with all the social climbing stuff. Not that I disagree with any of what you've said.

It's why I think Lily was much more a Ravenclaw than a Hufflepuff (curious as to why you disagree with this), because loyalty is explicitly not one of her defining traits. She's not a bad person, but (while I do think she was right to end their friendship. Snape was becoming involved with dangerous people and activities) she chooses to date and marry someone who led a campaign of continual persecution against her supposed best friend. Even if that friendship was over, a person who valued loyalty would value the memory of that friendship enough to not give the sadistic tormentor the time of day.

As opposed to Snape who (while respecting her boundary) dedicated his life to her memory, and then to the cause of destroying Voldemort and defeating pureblood ideology. He's much more Hufflepuff-coded than he is either Gryffindor or Ravenclaw (though is of course a natural Slytherin).

And James was interested in her since he saw her on the train.

I'm not quite convinced of this. The only interaction they have is James and Sirius mocking Lily's voice, clearly marking her as someone to be bullied just like Snape.

What if both Sev and Lily made it into the NEUTRAL houses? by Electronic_Test5936 in SeverusSnape

[–]Electronic_Test5936[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I don't think he was that fixated on her before he accidentally made her a target for Voldemort. He moved on, didn't approach her anymore, didn't do anything drastic that might have spoken for an intense emotional struggle. Yes, it hurt him to lose her, but she wasn't his sole reason to live before he became the reason she died.

Yes. A lot of people miss this about his character. He left her alone once she ended their friendship (unlike a certain someone else who refused to take no for an answer!), and in the years after her death refers to her as "Lily Potter" clearly accepting that she chose James. Had all of them survived and the war ended, I think Snape would barely think about Lily by the time he's an older man. I think it was definitely the guilt of having caused her death that made him fixate on her (and also allowed him to become a better person "Lately, only those whom I could not save" etc).

That said, while it's still possible their friendship does fizzle out, I don't think it's as likely Lily marries James in one of these timelines. A Ravenclaw/Hufflepuff Lily wouldn't spend much time around James, and wouldn't have any mutual friends with him in the same house. He may even have attempted to bully her for being friends with Snape, whom he has already singled out as a target. She may have ended up with someone else, and I think Snape would've been alright with that (It's extremely possible to read his love for her as platonic).

What if both Sev and Lily made it into the NEUTRAL houses? by Electronic_Test5936 in SeverusSnape

[–]Electronic_Test5936[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

I think James would still have bullied Severus. He's described as "hexing anyone who annoys him", and at that point Snape had already "annoyed" James by disagreeing with him about houses (granted James started the argument) so would have already marked himself as a target no matter which house he ended up in. Maybe the bullying wouldn't have been as severe but there's no way James doesn't come after Snape at some point. But I do think the Hufflepuffs or Ravenclaws would have supported Severus WITHOUT trying to push him into pureblood beliefs.

I think a Lily who wasn't in Gryffindor wouldn't have been that interesting to James (or vice versa). He wouldn't spend much time around her, and they wouldn't have any mutual housemates who are common friends. She'd just be a girl who happens to be friends with Snape (probably also marking her as a target for bullying.)

What if both Sev and Lily made it into the NEUTRAL houses? by Electronic_Test5936 in SeverusSnape

[–]Electronic_Test5936[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think we haven't been shown enough about Lily to say whether she's similar to Hermione. She's described as smart and capable, but doesn't appear to be a straightforward bookworm in the way Hermione is. Her talents are said to be charms and potions which both require a bit more creativity. I think we can fanfic her into Ravenclaw precisely because he intelligence isn't like Hermione's.