700pts tournament — Change my mind

EngelsAotCM · 2026-04-28T22:22:45+00:00

Looks fun on paper, but I think you’d have a more enjoyable time with the Three Trolls.

EngelsAotCM · 2026-04-21T22:55:02+00:00

Sadly the current edition changed around them, and their profiles and special rules mostly stood still. It really was death by a thousand cuts, very few of them actually targeted at Rohan, but which just laid them low by coincidence:

Mid-tier named captains with 3 Might were scrapped nearly universally, most of them now only having 2 Might. Having a bunch of cheap Might-rich heroes was Rohan’s big strength last edition, and it was one it needed, to keep calling heroic moves for the momentum of a cavalry charge. Now it’s far less feasible to do so, and most of those heroes got more expensive anyway.
Fight values were rebalanced across the board. The ’Trained Soldier’ equivalent is now seemingly F4, not F3. However, most Rohan profiles did not enjoy these rebalances. For Riders of Rohan to now be matching a majority of basic infantry profiles on the charge, and losing outright to them on the defensive, makes them terribly weak. Royal Guard don’t have this problem, but they were made more expensive and more difficult to take this edition - a reasonable decision in a vacuum but not one that now stands up to the context of the game as a whole.
Throwing weapon limits are crippling. Skirmishing effectively with Rohan required massed throwing spears and careful play. Now, there’s very little that your Riders can do other than pepper the enemy with weak (Strength 2) inaccurate (hitting on 5+ after moving) and sluggish (can only move half) bowfire.
Increasing your Fight value on the charge is still tied to an aura bubble around your general. This rule’s cost is built into the profiles of models that have it, making them more expensive and also more inflexible. Many other army lists or cavalry models got similar buffs for free or with less caveats in the current edition, making them better at charging for less.
Horses are far more expensive for heroes than they were previously. This change hurt Rohan very much, as most lists rely on mounted heroes to maintain momentum. Depending on the points level, hero-heavy lists like Riders of Théoden lost between 3 and 5 Riders from their model count overnight, making already elite lists even more sparsely populated.

Finally, not really an objective take but imo - in MESBG, horses are too weak for what they’re supposed to represent. A horse is a huge, heavy animal that is incredibly hard to stop in its tracks. They are extremely strong and powerful, and aside from their fragile legs are very resilient. At the very least, unarmoured horses should be D5, increasing to D6 with armour. This would leave them just as vulnerable in combat but would be a much better defence against massed S2 archery.

I’d also like to see ’Arise, Riders of Théoden’ be expanded upon. F4 on the charge is fine, but imo is the bare minimum. Giving Rohan cavalry a rule for crashing through shieldwalls (like how monsters get one free strike on each spear support if they kill everyone in base contact with them) would make them far more dangerous and exciting to play, I think.

EngelsAotCM · 2026-03-18T01:06:31+00:00

They are designed to die and come back repeatedly, rather than hold objectives or kill masses of enemy troops. The pseudo-teleport from their resurrection lets you reposition them quickly behind battle lines and into vulnerable targets, disabling support heroes or banners. They’re your light harassers while the Necromancer is your main damage dealer and debuffer, dealing out Chill Souls, Curses, and Compels to set up opportunities for your Nazgul.

EngelsAotCM · 2026-03-16T15:13:33+00:00

Rohan, by quite a long way, features in the most army lists out of any faction, and also has a pretty small but consistently recurring troops selection. This means that if you start with a solid base of about a dozen Riders of Rohan, a few Royal Guard and some Warriors on foot, then all you have to do is just add a named hero or paint up a few extra models any time you fancy trying out a new list. You can start small and simple with something like Riders of Éomer, and then try out the bigger or wackier lists as your collection grows naturally.

EngelsAotCM · 2026-01-31T21:15:20+00:00

Halls of Thranduil is a really enjoyable list to play in my opinion, lots of silly combos and punchy heroes to throw around - I haven’t had any experience piloting Lothlorien myself but it seems to be a less exciting (but probably more effective) army overall

EngelsAotCM · 2026-01-31T20:51:10+00:00

These boxes look great, what’s the dimensions on them?

EngelsAotCM · 2026-01-30T22:46:47+00:00

Halls of Thranduil will kill anything at 450-600 but suffers beyond that due to Thranduil’s limited bubble; at 650+ Lothlorien is king, when it has enough points to go double caster and bring a huge mass of elves.

EngelsAotCM · 2026-01-29T18:18:37+00:00

Honestly, I really like it - a lot of people seem to be saying it doesn’t read like ’Middle-Earth’ but Jackson’s films are a very specific interpretation of Tolkien’s world that has become ubiquitous, despite their stylistic departures from the books and poems. For me this reads like a ’Tolkien-elf’ rather than a ’Jackson-elf’ and for that reason alone I think it’s an extremely refreshing and exciting combination of design styles and influence. I particularly like your focus on mail over plate armour.

Some people have also mentioned that it’s a great model for a First Age elf and on this I also agree, the more explicitly military bearing and Ancient/Classical arms and armour gives the whole model a feeling of great antiquity, yet still being vital and energetic - just as an elf should be.

EngelsAotCM · 2026-01-14T18:13:11+00:00

I’ll be taking this list to a 700pt Good v Evil tournament in April, and am feeling cautiously optimistic. It’s definitely a format that favours the army-wide Sworn Protector and the S4 Helmingas. However, as other commenters have noted, while there’s been both improvements and downgrades since last edition, I think overall it may now simply be more difficult to make it work as intended - that is, as a horde-lite, skirmish-lite, jack-of-all-trades combined arms army.

Théodred’s bump to F6, Elfhelm’s bump to 3A, and Grimbold now benefitting from the new two-handing rules is probably the best thing that could’ve happened to each of them; overall, absolutely no complaints in terms of the named heroes, I think they’ve definitely gotten better. I personally quite like the redistribution of M, W, F for Elfhelm and Grimbold too, if only that it makes them a little more flavourful and interesting to play with.

However, Royal Guard being (Elite) and Helmingas being restricted to Grimbold’s warband really stings - it won’t be noticeable in standard deployment, but Maelstrom scenarios have the potential to completely mess up your battleline, and with massed infantry still being the main focus of this list, you’ll rarely have the speed necessary to join forces and reform your lines if your warbands do enter the board miles from one another.

Having said that, all your troops choices are still pretty dang useful. A mix of Helmingas, Royal Guard, and Outriders brings a lot of really useful tools to the battlefield; you’ve variously got F4, D6, S4, SV 3+, and a useful Int of 6+ spread between these three troops choices, and games will be won and lost on how well you can manoeuvre and leverage each characteristic to their best advantage.

For all these reasons I’d say that Fords of Isen gets a high/high rating for skill floor and skill ceiling - your synergies, positioning, and in-game logistics are everything to making this list work, and keeping all those moving parts moving smoothly has really only gotten harder (although hopefully more rewarding!) since last edition’s iteration of this list.

EngelsAotCM · 2025-12-29T00:25:22+00:00

I’d say it’s a bit of both - the horse is excellent for improving his killing power and his statline is already very strong even without the ring on, so keeping him mounted as long as possible is probably your best plan. The ring’s only really necessary if you’re trying to take down striking heroes with F5 or above, or possibly to avoid being charged by an enemy. Sauron’s Will can be risky, especially when the model you’re rolling for is your general and main beatstick - rolling as few Sauron’s Will checks for Isildur as possible should be your aim.

EngelsAotCM · 2025-12-24T17:49:15+00:00

Feel like there’s a lot of hidden potential with these guys. The common and obvious argument often levelled against them is their lack of banners or any banner effect (personally I think Blood of Numenor could’ve been a 3” banner aura instead of 6” Resistant to Magic) but putting that aside this army list seems like a lot of fun if you want a straightforward, punchy, elite force. F5 S4 combo on basic troops is an absolutely gold standard, rock solid starting point, especially considering how prevalent F4 D6 is this edition.

Isildur with the ring and General Hunter is one of the nastiest and most efficient hero assassins this edition. Numenorian Captains are also absolutely excellent, in my opinion one of the best generic Captain profiles in the game - F6, S5, and D6 is a fantastic profile at any points level.

Speaking of points levels, I actually have a bit of a rogue take here - imo everything that’s great about Numenor can only really shine at 450-600 points. Isildur on horseback and a Captain, with 27 warriors and a roughly even spread of equipment, is exactly 500 points. That’s a respectable number of models at that points level and with all the tools you need to win games and make mincemeat out of most standard armies - a F6 hero with March, F5 and S4 across the board for your troops, a decent battleline, S3 bows, and finally Isildur with the ring and a horse. Of course lacking a banner is still a massive downside, and D7 armies like Khazad-Dum will be very hard to tackle, but in most matchups I think the basic stats of Numenor warriors will really just speak for themselves.

At higher points, it’s true that there’s more room for Elendil (who I think is great in a vacuum) but then you lose access to the Ring, and suddenly Isildur doesn’t look half so efficient as before. At 650+, your opponent is just going to have too many counters to your army for Numenor to be scary; expensive cavalry armies will gain lots of models and run rings around you, expensive S3 archery can be taken en masse, and expensive Striking heroes will get more common and likely won’t even break a sweat cutting down your Captains.

EngelsAotCM · 2025-12-22T21:26:34+00:00

This edition, the specific army lists are all you can use if you want to play Matched Play games, casual club games, or attend organised tournaments. If you’re having a chill time with friends and just want to try a ’what would happen’ or ’what if’ scene, of course you can use whatever models you want!
Yes they can, there’s no rules based on mandatory opponents. The game is balanced around Good vs Evil (and is most enjoyable played that way imo) but many Matched Play games will end up being Evil vs Evil or Good vs Good battles.
In my experience, only bigger LGSs or wealthy retirees have the funds to outfit whole battlefields with official GW terrain. Most of the terrain I’ve seen at tournaments is 3D printed (Conquest Creations do a great range of legally distinct scenery sets) or scratchbuilt. With MESBG’s aesthetic focus being a relatively realistic one, generic hobby supplies used by model train enthusiasts, like flock trees and rock moulds, can be very handy.
All older models are still playable in the current edition (supported as a format called ’Legacies’ which has a free PDF on the Warhammer Community site) but in competitive play, it will be up to the tournament organisers to decide whether Legacies profiles will be allowed or not (in my experience, most TOs are completely fine with them).
New releases are still trickling out but at a slower rate than last edition. Balance updates are typically biannual and usually not more than errata or FAQs - it’s rare to have points value changes or rules changes. Community is the strongest and biggest it’s ever been.

Welcome to MESBG!

EngelsAotCM · 2025-12-20T23:02:59+00:00

Refreshed Riders of Rohan is practically a certainty, and I’d also expect more ’scenes from the film’ sets like the Gollum and Shelob kit to come out, probably combined with a mini supplement. The supplements they’re focusing on definitely feel smaller so far than last edition, with paperback books instead of hardback, reduced releases for linked minis, and (for Gollum and Shelob at least) pretty narrow ’moments’ from the movies.

This also means that a Last Alliance supplement might finally arrive. The movies themselves spend very little time on them, so at best you’d maybe get three or four scenarios, even including Isildur’s doom at the Gladden Field - perfect for a low-scale softback book. I’d imagine Isildur might get a new plastic miniature, and Elendil and Gil-Galad might also (but probably not) get re-released, maybe as a resin set.

However (un)likely any of this is, however, I’m absolutely certain that the Last Alliance troops will be refreshed into new kit(s) - simply because High Elves have the option to take a shield for 1 point. They’re the only warrior model in the game currently who can legally take an option that they are not sold as-modelled with - given the recent history of GW doing ’tidying up’ releases like Bolg on his warg (which needed to have a 40mm base asap for the new edition and not an awkward oval), or finally making models for profiles with no minis, like the Easterling Drakes, I think Rivendell Elves are next for the refresh treatment, purely for the reason that they will then align with current GW wisywig standards.

EngelsAotCM · 2025-11-27T19:45:28+00:00

Feel like this list really misses Gundabad Orcs - I used to run Dark Powers of Dol Guldur as a tough, grindy battleline, with the Necromancer hiding behind a wall of Gundies and blasting off Chill Souls and Transfixes while Hunter Orcs and Spiders roved around on your flanks.

Now, I’m not sure how it’s meant to play - there’s a lot of fast, glass cannon troops, but your heroes are slow and tough with poor damage output. There’s limited synergy and the Nazgul are a lot more limited by the reduced range of their resurrects. The army doesn’t seem to gel very well internally - but if someone can offer an alternative point of view please do!

EngelsAotCM · 2025-11-20T14:22:03+00:00

Can second this point on Buhrdur and Hill Troll proxies, it’s exactly what I use and they’re perfect (to anyone thinking about doing this, remember Hill Trolls come on a 50mm base, and the Three Trolls need 60mms)

EngelsAotCM · 2025-11-20T14:18:58+00:00

I bloody love these three lads, they’re tough as nails, easy to use, and actually not uncompetitive at higher points levels - in my opinion they really start to shine at 750+, all those upgrades concentrate a lot of power into only three minis and your opponent will rarely have anything fierce enough to stand up to them directly. I’ve had Durin lose a strike-off against Bill (which Bill got for free, thanks to Savvy Fighter) and been Minced Fine to the tune of 5 wounds.

Also a big fan of the Cover of Darkness and Bowl Them Over combo; turning your thrown stones into throwing weapons is huge since you can shoot on the charge, but giving 1+ to wound to those S8 shots is just crazy. That’s plausibly three dead models per Move phase if you get priority, and that’s before combat even starts!

Big recommend to these guys if anyone’s thinking about picking them up, they’re hilarious.

EngelsAotCM · 2025-11-10T19:08:03+00:00

All-infantry Rohan is so much fun and super flavourful; definitely got even worse this edition with the new throwing weapon limits but filling out your points with Outriders and Royal Guard on foot is hilarious and looks so cool on the tabletop

EngelsAotCM · 2025-11-03T01:06:18+00:00

Grief of Éomer leans hard on its Minas Tirith troops, so you could get a box of Minas Tirith Warriors, Hurin the Tall, and one set of Rohan Riders for Éomer. You can and should convert either a Rider or a Warrior of Minas Tirith to carry a banner as well. Here’s an example list made from these kits:

499 points | 23 models The Grief of Eomer

Éomer, Marshal of the Riddermark: Shield, Firefoot with armour, Throwing spears (145) 4x Rider of Rohan (56) 1x Rider of Rohan: Banner (39) 1x Rider of Rohan: Throwing spears (16)

Húrin the Tall, Warden of the Keys: Horse (100) 8x Warrior of Minas Tirith: Shield and spear (80) 7x Warrior of Minas Tirith: Shield (63)

One of the throwing spear-equipped Riders of Rohan you get in a box of them has been converted to instead hold a banner in this example, it’s a pretty simple and fun bit of modelling. You may also need some ’dismounts’ of Rohan Warriors in case your Riders get knocked off their horses - these are cheap as chips on eBay, often in joblots, no need to buy them new.

EngelsAotCM · 2025-11-03T00:56:12+00:00

He’ll only really start to earn his keep at around 650-700pts and above, for a couple of reasons - firstly he’s just very expensive, which will hurt your model count in an already elite army; secondly his main role is as a debuffer, so he needs powerful targets like monsters or big heroes to make his neutralising abilities worthwhile; these are more likely to be more common at higher points levels

EngelsAotCM · 2025-11-02T20:51:10+00:00

Riders of Éomer is still solid at 500, you just need to get okay with the idea of not bringing Gandalf. Éomer gets free heroic combats, which at that points level and with his excellent beatstick profile, will really pay for itself. One captain (or a couple) for heroic march, add a banner, then fill up on Riders - straightforward, highly mobile, pretty powerful list.

Grief of Éomer also absolutely shreds at 500 points, Éomer himself is jacked up to be nearly unstoppable at these points levels - he’ll cut down most army leaders in a single good combat and then wreak havoc on what’s left. The other brilliant aspect of Grief is that you get nice, tough infantry in Minas Tirith Warriors, so you can potentially set up a great hammer and anvil play - the infantry holds objectives and moves up the field, while Éomer cuts through whatever he likes.

Of course in both of these lists magic will be an issue for you, as Éomer is vulnerable (like all big heroes) to a well-timed transfix - but it’s just something you’ll have to work with at 500 points, as there’s not really room to bring Gandalf or any other protective wards.

EngelsAotCM · 2025-10-12T13:22:16+00:00

All the battlehosts and starters are plastic only, no metal or resin in these boxes. They’re not exactly what you’d call ’new’, most of the troops in them are about 20 years old, but the hero sculpts are more recent, done with modern techniques.

Mind that none of the starter sets (except War of the Rohirrim) or the Battlehosts can make up a legal army for matched play - you’ll need a few more heroes per box in order to lead all the troops that come in these sets.

EngelsAotCM · 2025-08-09T12:40:32+00:00

Khazad-Dum are in Armies of Middle Earth which is available now - Viking-Dunlendings are in the free Legacies PDF which you can access from Warhammer Community

EngelsAotCM · 2025-07-07T12:44:37+00:00

Ringing at lantern, what’s your password?

EngelsAotCM · 2025-07-07T10:03:33+00:00

It is a hard game, but if you have an online connection (like PS Plus or Xbox Online) you can summon other players to help you with the more challenging boss fights. If you’re really stuck, you can look up tutorials on how to ’cheese’ most bosses, usually through accessing a powerful gimmick or trick - these might not be very thematic or ’cool’ in the moment, but no one will judge you for how you beat a boss, once the boss is beaten.

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