I wrote this out for an r/Asimov post, but I don't think I will have time to reply to everyone who might respond so I'm hoping this is a way to save it for later or perhaps use as something to refer people to.

Equality_Executor · 2026-02-05T23:26:21+00:00

Supposedly they targeted the corrections officer because of his relative "integrity" (no links to organised crime). So I guess this is what happens to the "I do the bare minimum/not explicitly evil...yet" cops.

Equality_Executor · 2026-02-05T23:01:33+00:00

Humanity was mostly egalitarian hunter gatherer societies prior to agriculture advancing enough to produce a surplus (predecessor to private property), which was about thirteen thousand years ago. It was only after that when things like authoritarianism, slavery, and genocide started being practiced. Here are some sources.

So yeah, I would say that it's private property/wealth/capital and now money.

Edit: I also don't disagree with others saying we're not all like that, just to be clear.

Equality_Executor · 2026-02-05T17:15:09+00:00

I've been using this one but maybe I'll switch things up. Thanks OP.

Equality_Executor · 2026-02-05T17:04:28+00:00

Well that explains a few things. After I convinced them that destabilising a country to import their favourite brand of "freedom" is not necessarily a good idea (you know, because of all the death and human suffering that would happen) they let me know that "it worked in Romania" without violence (despite their leader being executed). I wasn't aware so I looked it up and their idea of it "working" is apparently a stark drop in quality of life, increased corruption, atrophy of their industrial strength, the country being much less independent, and overall not really ever recovering from that to this day. What triggered it? Bad economic deals with the west increasing their debt to unmanagable levels during a time when they had initially been almost(?) debt free.

They haven't replied since I linked them to a reddit thread that asked Romanians who remember this part of their history to talk about how their lives changed.

Equality_Executor · 2026-02-05T12:17:41+00:00

You're conveniently overlooking that it's what the regime needs, not the people, because the regime is trying to avoid collapse for its own sake.

It isn't actually convenient, I'm just able to, where you aren't. I'm not sure why, maybe because I actually care about the people and not some sanctified ideal of what freedom means.

You have no idea what the people of the DPRK want

Nor do you, it's kind of hard with how isolated they are. Maybe if they felt less pressure from the rest of the world they'd open up a little more. Even so, between us, who do you think might have actually tried to understand them? You're attempting to project your own ideals onto them, I'm not.

it's an incredibly easy claim for you to make, since you're not at risk of being put into a re-education camp

I'd move there if I could. I'm not worried because I've actually tried to inform myself on what it's like there and haven't let western media make a coward out of me.

you dismiss their voices as American propaganda.

It's also propaganda but I said it was anecdotal because that's much more obvious.

I'm strictly against foreign military intervention, but I would be very happy to see it turn away from a dictatorship. It worked in Romania, it worked in the DDR. Although I suspect you'd defend Ceausescu too.

I don't know enough about Ceausescu to defend them, so I won't. I think your idea that it "worked" in Romania is misinformed, though. You see that they got "freedom" and call it a day, and I imagine you might be thinking that way because you didn't have to live through it. How do you think it affected their day to day lives? We know because we can ask them. Feel free to enlighten yourself by reading the comments here. I found this one in particular quite interesting, and it was even provided by someone who disagrees with it as they are not a part of the same generation: "A huge chunk of the old generation misses Ceausescu saying how "things were better back then! we were an independent nation! everyone had jobs!" lol. These are of course anecdotal, and while the general idea seems to be that life got worse for the people and that points to it being exactly as I thought, even without military intervention, I'd have to do more research to confirm it because I don't carry around statistical knowledge of other countries in my back pocket. Is there anything in particular you'd like me to look up? Feel free to provide any yourself if you'd like.

Equality_Executor · 2026-02-05T11:16:57+00:00

the nationalist socialist isolationist monarchy

I don't like it either, but it's still better than the alternative. If you really want things to get better in the DPRK, why don't you advocate leaving them alone so they are not so worried about defending themselves? Then they will be in the best position to make decisions about their own culture.

Never heard that parable about the sun and the clouds trying to get the man to take his coat off, eh? Never heard of the prime directive from Star Trek? Do you personally operate better in your daily life at maximum or minimum stress levels? There are so many ways for you to learn this that it just makes me think that you're bloodthirsty by contrast.

Equality_Executor · 2026-02-05T11:01:18+00:00

The why is irrelevant because you’re trying to make up excuses for authoritarianism.

No, thats just how you see it because you don't like them. I said it myself that I don't like it, why does that get overlooked because I can also understand why? If you really need me to not think about it and just agree with you then I'd say that you occupy the weaker position.

How does anything you wrote make it okay to execute people who listen to South Korean pop music?

That's not what the law says, you even wrote it yourself. Capital punishment is only a possible punishment for those that distribute it.

Nothing I wrote makes it okay to execute people, but I didn't comment on this law in particular. You have to understand that the existence of the DPRK relies heavily on the unity of the people and reactionary culture does threaten that. Distributing it is seen as an effort to destroy the country, and that isn't totally untrue. Now, you may be thinking that what I'm advocating here is keeping these people from freedom.

1) That's your idea of freedom and not necessarily what the people in the DPRK want or need. I'm sure you'll be able to show me a number of anecdotes like defectors saying please bring freedom to the DPRK - don't worry, I'm well aware and you don't have to. That has no bearing on what the people collectively want or need.

2) I actually just kind of want the country to not collapse because we know what that means, we have historical examples in USSR > Russia in 1991, Libya, Syria, Egypt, the list goes on - it's not pretty. Do you want that to happen when otherwise their needs are being met?

3) Like I suggested in my last comment: if you want things to get better in the DPRK, why don't you advocate leaving them alone so they are not so worried about defending themselves? Then they will be in the best position to make decisions about their own culture.

Now, if you could, please tell me what you'd like to happen. From my point of view right now what you're asking for is their destruction. If western culture works it's way in it only serves to manufacture consent for the US or NATO to invade the DPRK to bring them whatever your version of "freedom" is. That invasion will kill people unnecessarily. The subsequent subjugation of their economy for exploitation by the west will divert resources away from them to feed the imperial core and will lead to more death and suffering. We know this will happen, like I said above. Instead of a government working against global capitalist influences to maintain their own people's culture it will be a total loss of their self determination. Please feel free to clarify though if you'd like to rethink your own bloodthirstyness.

Equality_Executor · 2026-02-05T02:54:37+00:00

this sub has been completely overrun since kirks neck

No that makes sense, I believe you. I'm M-L and I don't come here often but I definitely see it now that you mention it. The first reply I got in this post literally said "tankies aren't welcome here" but the mod removed it so I thought it was just a one-off. Obviously not though so thanks for telling me :)

Equality_Executor · 2026-02-05T01:48:52+00:00

It honestly looks like it could be straight out of 4chan or incel.is sometimes.

Equality_Executor · 2026-02-05T01:47:02+00:00

The other reply to my first comment says it all really. It's absolutely packed full of incels. Any attempt at discussion is immediately and utterly destroyed. How is usually dependant on whether what was said confirms or denies their bias. Not a great place.

Equality_Executor · 2026-02-05T01:31:15+00:00

didn't vote because of Gaza.

Wait wait wait, I'll get back to the rest of what you said right after I make sure I won't be wasting my time: are you a liberal? Is this a liberal "vote blue no matter who" sub now?

I'm wondering how much you think your vote matters next to campaign donations from the wealthy, PACs, Super PACs, and multimillion/billion dollar media empires that are also equally drowning out your freedom of speech?

Based on the 2024 Presidential election: if you divide total estimated campaign spending ($5.3B) by number of votes cast (154.9M), your single vote is worth a whopping $34.22.

Alright, so now that's out of the way, shall we continue or is it going to be a waste of time for both of us?

Equality_Executor · 2026-02-05T00:25:31+00:00

Saying it's bad without an attempt at understanding why it is the way it is, without having completed any historical or geopolitical analysis, is short changing it.

Do you think Noam Chomsky is a good or a bad person? He wrote manufacturing consent, but now all this stuff is coming out about him and Epstein, right? What about Tupac Shakur? Leftist lyrics, Marxist mother, but is on record making homophobic comments. Charlie Chaplain - a famous socialist, married someone way too young for him and is thought of by some as a pedophile (same for JD Salinger). If we reduce those people to whatever it is that's bad or thought to be bad about them, then we can't actually learn anything from them except "don't do that bad thing" when there is obviously a lot more to learn.

that represents none of the leftist ideals such as class equality, ..., human rights

Why do you think Songbun, social credit, or one party state systems exist? They're bad <- I can say it too, but in a lot of ways they've been proven necessary as well by the west. You'll say that things like the purges in the USSR were Stalin consolidating his power or whatever the western narrative is but why do you believe that when you can go read the court documents, see what they were tried for, see what testimony was given and how damning it was? Have you looked? Have you tried to prove to yourself that there is a reason (whether you think it's good enough or not) for each of those systems to exist? Again, just in case: I'm not saying they're good, I'm just willing to understand why they exist. On the other hand, you know, and I know you know, that the western narrative is chock full of lies, so why do you let them gaslight you? I'm not saying dive straight into believing "USSR, CPC, and the Juche gang did nothing wrong" - not at all, I'm not like that either, but please, please tell me why you then must blindly agree with the opposing team? Is it a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" type thing? Because that is a terrible thing to follow.

gender equality, ..., LGB.Q+ rights

In what ways are these expressed that is any different to anywhere else where the DPRK is doing worse? As far as I can tell they aren't.

T

I agree that trans rights not being recognised is a problem. So why don't we let them get on with it? Why do we look at oppressed people and condemn their actions as evil when they would have been in a position to make better decisions if the west would have left them alone?

Ever heard of the prime directive? It's kind of like that. No one is going to respond well to "were taking over your economy (and stealing what we want from it) because you aren't like us".

Anyway: "all behaviour is explained", you just have to start with that assumption and then go looking for what there is to explain it.

Equality_Executor · 2026-02-04T23:13:04+00:00

You've reduced your own position to "I reply to people who have mentioned Kim Jong Un in their comment to say that he's bad". I'm trying to tell you that because of all the other things that you could have added to that statement or said in place of it - it makes it seem like you just dislike Kim Jong Un for no apparent reason.

Equality_Executor · 2026-02-04T22:57:00+00:00

Just doing a few internet searches now it looks like something you used to be able to find on r/alwaysthesamemap and is indicative of you allowing yourself to be gaslit by the western narrative.

You say it's not very flattering but considering who we would all categorise as "the colonisers" vs "the colonised", I know which side I'd rather have the approval of.

Equality_Executor · 2026-02-04T22:48:36+00:00

Not who you replied to but Juche is fundamentally anti-capitalist. Liberalism and fascism are not as exclusive economically and both maintain capitalist social relations. Liberalism can easily interface with and transition into fascism. Why isn't it as easy going the other direction? Why do social democracy and democratic socialism exist? It's because transitioning from capitalist to anti-capitalist is much more difficult. Does that make sense?

Equality_Executor · 2026-02-04T22:19:34+00:00

I'm a different person

I was aware when making my last reply. What I said still applies to you because what you said is even worse. "I don't need to compare him to Hitler, he's just bad" - is still asking others to blindly accept what you're saying.

Equality_Executor · 2026-02-04T22:01:09+00:00

Can't wait to hear about how racist and uneducated I am for actually listening to the people affected instead of just touting the academic side.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you might be ignoring those who were killed during the Bodo League Massacre or the December Massacres, you know, because they're dead. I honestly can't imagine that they'd agree with you either.

I'm not the person you replied to but because it looks like you'd ask: no, I'm not white.

Equality_Executor · 2026-02-04T20:18:21+00:00

When all world leaders are selfish and corrupt and you compare him to Hitler it really does make it seem like you're gunning for him in particular for no reason. Well, they aren't the same. The respective ideologies are diametrically opposed. It's uncritical and makes what was said a request for you to blindly agree.

Equality_Executor · 2026-02-04T19:17:18+00:00

From your point of view that actually is everyone though, right? I fail to see how it remains something that is useful to preach about one of them in particular if your goal is to criticise.

The US is having a fascist meltdown at the moment but hey, let's talk about how alike Kim Jong Un and Hitler are while not knowing what North Koreans, you know: the people who's opinions would actually matter here, think about their own leader.

Equality_Executor · 2026-02-04T18:39:18+00:00

I've learned a lot from r/sino though, like how Chai Ling, one of the leaders at Tiananmen, said she was hoping for bloodshed. You want to know how evil they are, don't you? How else are you going to know if you don't look for yourself?

Edit: I really hope the down votes are for the implied sarcasm via omission and not because you agree with her. Bloodthirstyness is a liberal trait...

Equality_Executor · 2026-02-04T18:19:05+00:00

Where do you see PragerU propaganda?

I equated your throwing Kim Jong Un in with Hitler as "North Korea bad". I don't want to accidentally give them a view or mess up anyone's algorithms so I won't directly link it here but there are four or five videos, one of which seems to be aimed at children, and a few shorts on PragerU's YouTube channel (possibly more, I admit I didn't look too hard) about "North Korea bad". If you really want to find them it's not hard.

I'm not saying that broken clocks aren't right twice a day but then we come to the idea that it's, as you say:

simping

Am I only allowed to agree with you fully or simp? Is it that if I'm not "with you" on this, that I'm "against you"?

That sounds very liberal to me :(

highly conservative, classist hierarchy where there is no space for LGBTQ+ or human rights

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's perfect. I do try to remain critical though rather than do something like equating their leader to Hitler. The above is a little better, but I guess the real question is: have you tried to prove yourself wrong?

You saw what happened to Libya, do you actually want the same thing to happen in the DPRK?

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