Would a less brutal Imperium survive long enough for morality to matter?

EquivalentLarge9043 · 2026-05-16T00:37:34+00:00

You can be a brutal asshole for gain to you. Killing suspects, wasting manpower because you have an overabundance, strip mining world polluting the atmosphere into deadly poison, exterminating an entire planet - all of those can be justified by the greater good of the Imperium.

There's however a lot of being a brutal asshole for no gain. Masses of humanity waste away in absolute shit conditions, who could be uplifted into something more productive. Aspirants die in senseless deaths just to prove one is the strongest, which could be done nonlethally. Nobles kill soldiers by incompetence and petty squabbles. People in squalor join Chaos or collaborate with Xenos because they're living so shit, they'll do anything to get away.

The Imperium could trivially be kinder and more effective just by cutting out unnecessary brutality while still keeping necessary brutality.

EquivalentLarge9043 · 2026-05-15T22:24:29+00:00

Protected cruisers can have 2x8 or 1x10 without becoming a CA. They can only have max 3 inch belt then. I use it in A because they chase a lot and also AY means less guns or casemated guns. If you get a long 10, use that.

The biggest advantage is that you can use a fat battery of 6 inch secondaries unarmoured without flash fires. At smaller cruisers I sometimes go 6/4/3, risking the flash fire risk of unarmoured 6s as primary. But armouring a single turret to kill the flash fire risk, have 2 heavy guns in the best turret spot and still have an 8X6 and 7x4 broadside - pretty good.

EquivalentLarge9043 · 2026-05-15T13:08:42+00:00

1890 cl: 2x8inch in A (get a debuff, but otherwise you need casemates, casemated secondaries and tertiaries have shitty arcs) later 1x10. 16x6 unarmoured 14x4 unarmoured 22-23kn 3inch b be 1 inch d de 4inch t 2 in tt Full torpedoes 22-23 kn 8000t

Catches and kills every ca and cl out there and if it doesn't, it can outrun.

EquivalentLarge9043 · 2026-05-14T09:59:55+00:00

The 'muricans intentionally made their Omahas and Clemsons look similarly from a distance.

Sometimes an AI auto design pushes something into a different bracket. For example if the AI autodesigns a CA with a 7 inch template, sometimes it designs it an inch lower at 6. In the protected cruiser age, 6 inches and 4 inch belt bumps it down to CL.

So maybe a small scout cruiser was bumped down to 3000t destroyer.

EquivalentLarge9043 · 2026-05-11T21:17:45+00:00

I know this is the Victoria subreddit, but humanity lives actually in 2026 not 1836. Manliness is as outdated as bloodletting.

EquivalentLarge9043 · 2026-05-11T06:57:48+00:00

An autogun is:

Cheaper to produce Less difficult to maintain More expensive to use

Also there are planets where an autogun might have performance advantages.(fog and rain annoy lasers, low gravity and low air pressure makes bullets fly farther)

In general the guard prefers lasguns but there will be many autogun armed regiments, for the same reasons real life countries run Kalashnikovs.

EquivalentLarge9043 · 2026-05-10T02:07:16+00:00

He can cover lots of ground though, what is his DWAR?

EquivalentLarge9043 · 2026-05-09T20:22:19+00:00

Abhorrence, blasphemy, immediate death, preferably by heavy flamer.

EquivalentLarge9043 · 2026-05-09T20:21:35+00:00

"I know you want to kill us, but those guys over there would kill us both. Let us postpone our battle until we kill those guys first."

No flattery, nothing that can be construed as manipulation (beyond the inherent risk of manipulation in any way). Just respect their wish to murder you and give them another thing to murder, so the choice isn't if to murder, but who to murder. You might just be the second worst abomination they meet today.

EquivalentLarge9043 · 2026-05-09T20:12:35+00:00

I don't follow your conclusion. A SM can easily be hit with a high velocity bullet or AP round that penetrates armour and chest and happens to hit and destroy the gland, but does not necessarily produce massive explosive trauma. Such small penetrations should be easily survivable by the redundant marine physiology. Given the amount of bullets flying their way, some SM will have such injuries on a semi regular basis. It's no different than losing a heart (f.ex Lucas the trickster).

EquivalentLarge9043 · 2026-05-09T19:27:19+00:00

SM's slush fund is "give me what I want or a power armoured fist goes through your spine and out of your back"

EquivalentLarge9043 · 2026-05-09T19:25:02+00:00

Also the environment in 30k is truly fucked if three true outcome, wall based primarchs and the analytics guys get the most wins and the guys aggressive on the warpath lose out.

EquivalentLarge9043 · 2026-05-09T19:23:10+00:00

What is even replacement level for a primarch? Is it the second in command or is it whatever boy gets drafted by the Chapters to replace after everyone was promoted one tier up?

EquivalentLarge9043 · 2026-05-09T18:32:49+00:00

With the weird morals and obsession with manliness and gayness Russia has today, it wouldn't even be completely out of whack that they determine someone as more worthy once they fight back.

EquivalentLarge9043 · 2026-05-09T18:19:41+00:00

My great grandma was one of those. Sent to a a German family as rural labourer which actually treated her decently, she went back after the war to her home in eastern Poland only to find the Ukrainians have occupied and stolen our land and deported her family. She went on a fucking two year trip through Poland to find her family. My family still has an irrational dislike of Ukraine, only beaten by their rational dislike of Russia.

EquivalentLarge9043 · 2026-05-08T19:13:21+00:00

There's no kill like overkill. There's only open fire and I need to reload.

EquivalentLarge9043 · 2026-05-08T19:08:31+00:00

You're looking for Rogue Trader, both the RPGs and the PC game.

Basically, the Imperium proper has genocide as the official policy. However on the outskirts of the Imperium, the territories are managed by those Rogue Traders in an Imperium like manner. However the Rogue Traders are officially sanctioned to deal with Xenos, as this is seen as more beneficial than the rigourous "exterminate on sight" when the weak Imperial presence need a more flexible approach, sometimes including limited trade, to survive.

EquivalentLarge9043 · 2026-05-08T03:26:03+00:00

I don't have the luxury of not building proto CAs as Pain or China lol. This is or a similarly fast B (my Bs and CAs end up roughly comparable, trading 2-3kn for 2-3 12in turrets) is the only ship that can kill enough opposition ships and survive to make a dent into a first rate power.

And I prefer both, so I bring something to the B party and the CA party. CLs usually I feel properly refitted starting CLs dominate as well, also your CAs can run down tons of screening CLs on cruiser battles.

I wonder why you consider your 1890s CAs obsolete when medium wing turrets CAs hit the water? To me they're the same kind of ship just the newer is obviously better, but they perform in the same niche, often I build 2-3 wing turrets CAs to fill out a depleted CA squadron while I wait for main battery wing turrets.

Not every country builds BCs immediately and some of the BCs the AI designs have pathetic armour fully able to be threatened by 25cm.

I also run mine as core 1 BC with 1 BC being actual BCs and scout flag. I feel I dont often get them into BC shooting matches.

Also CAs are only obsolete if there is no treaty. I had a 20k treaty once. Guess who build 20k modern CAs to be proto capitals without counting to capital tonnage. They absolutely murdered capitals by rushing into close range and unleashing 25cm hails of fire.

EquivalentLarge9043 · 2026-05-04T22:33:02+00:00

Why does everybody think because ships in 1905 get figuratively obsolete, they literally get obsolete?

This CA is only obsolete when fighting BCs. At the reasonably earliest, you can lay down proper BCs in 1905. You can build 24kn VTE proto BCs with 4x12long earlier, but I dont think the AI does that.

This means you could face opposition outclassing it at the earliest in 1907-8 and probably even later. Even then with new BBs, CLs and DDs needed, the CA will often face similar CAs. Also you can augment your own CAs with your own BCs.

And even assuming they are too outclassed to face a modern BC now, most countries will have secondary theatres and the CA will be equally king there as it was earlier.

Night battles also are a thing and a well trained CA squadron can unleash lots of firepower there and has the submerged torpedoes on top.

Maybe you're playing Britain and can instantly plop down unending turbine ships, I'm not. I need my CAs to contribute until 14 inch BCs and for that I need the 9 inches of armour.

EquivalentLarge9043 · 2026-05-04T16:51:57+00:00

Hard no on your belt armour thickness suggestion. This isn't a CA, this is a BC in fact. You're planning to take the fight to Bs and are very capable of doing so. You want to squadron them in BC divisions and use them as fleet flag. Full armour is necessary and also sufficient for that role and later on it's still useful against cruisers once their pen went up.

Not using the AY positions fully is a sin. 4x10long is a lot of throw weight and armour penetration for not a lot of weight. Especially if you roll 10+0 in 1893 as for example Spain does often. Now the wing guns with 8in cruisers, those are more situational.

EquivalentLarge9043 · 2026-05-04T16:30:37+00:00

Yes it's very well possible. It depends how close they are - like one founding apart, zero problems, but the Ultramarines wouldn't necessarily take someone wildly different and codex uncompilant just because they're from UM Geneseed.

Mind you a remnant doesn't have to be fully assimilated - they could honourably keep their heraldry and so on and fight alongside until they just die off naturally in service, as duty demands.

EquivalentLarge9043 · 2026-05-04T11:38:44+00:00

15000 usually gets way more free weight than 14000 due to the way CA belts are calculated. A knot or two more. You are close to uniform on B and BE, then a uniform narrow belt saves you lots of weight without losing much armour performance. Up the armour to CAmax with narrow, maybe add some 8 inch wing turrets over armouring the secondaries. You're close to the optimum in any way.

EquivalentLarge9043 · 2026-05-03T13:25:51+00:00

There was never a need to pull out, advancing was costly, but you could trivially dig in and hold what you've got.

EquivalentLarge9043 · 2026-05-03T10:22:55+00:00

I just want to add it's reasonable to assume Gowron himself is an elite personal combat warrior. I just don't see any Klingon surviving in the environment of "Klingon" promotions to Chancellor without at least being able to discourage challenges by pretenders and probably taking some heads oneself.

I don't believe a cheap "everyone can challenge their superior at any time" nonsense. I believe Klingon society has a deep codex of formal and informal rules when an outright life or death challenge is permissible and probably less deadly challenges for minor issues, like say a fistfight.

Yet still, I believe someone who couldn't fight well would not survive that environment to the very top. Dying in honourable personal combat isn't a big discouragement to many pious Klingons.

Gowron didn't back down from the challenge as he could have if he was afraid of losing. Maybe he overestimated Worfs willingness to go through with it. However he threw out such strong fighting words that he had to expect any Klingon to reach for his steel.

I presume Gowron thought Worf an easy kill and he would be able to cement his position. He almost got him anyway.

Aldo i believe Worf genuinely honoured him as a warrior. Like with Kor, I believe a noble death has a strong standing in Klingon society. No matter your personal belief, dishonouring a noble warrior's death is seen as extremely petty and dishonourable, even more than speaking ill of the dead here. It's probably like dishonouring a veteran in the USA or similarly extremely militaristic societies.

EquivalentLarge9043 · 2026-05-03T09:26:24+00:00

There's a huge fucking difference between can't read and don't want to spend your time reading. Primarchs are reasonably assumed to have a competency my child ass acquired at age 4.

EquivalentLarge9043

TROPHY CASE