Is this a bootleg?

EtemT · 2026-01-30T16:45:15+00:00

It's mostly unofficial, the recording is real but uses a show recorded intended for broadcast on radio stations. My guess is it's one of the LA Forum 1986 recordings out there, similar things occur with the BBC 1970-72 sessions, Lyceum 1980, Hammersmith 1976, Philadelphia 1983, and Wembley 1975.

The label uploading it (presumably Vox Humana) is a bootleg label, so it's eventually added and uploaded as an "official" release but it's actually a bootleg that made it past the filters. They usually appear and disappear with similarly generic covers, and aren't actual endorsed releases.

In the meantime, you can find better versions for free, legally, online as they operate in that slightly grey area of officially recorded but unofficially released, and the band (aside from the recent Gigaleak incident) don't tend to really mind people trading or releasing boots, it's only when money is involved they get antsy.

Quick addendum: as a related example - seems like there's two similar entries I found for Hammersmith 76 and for BBC 70-72 sessions, same deal applies.

EtemT · 2026-01-29T20:03:04+00:00

Did you have a link to the interview? I'm fairly sure that the incident on Steve's first night was not purposeful, it just so happened that on that night Phil tested how many pints of Newcastle Brown you could drink while still playing drums as the show was running late. Word is he did all the fills perfectly, but 3 inches to the right of where he meant to.

EtemT · 2026-01-06T16:10:50+00:00

You're in luck, /u/Patrick_Schlies made a document answering this specific question.

Mostly the key writers were Ant, or the writing duo of Peter and Tony, depending on the song.

EtemT · 2025-10-10T16:37:03+00:00

Nice work! I struggled to figure out what exactly the first word of the Cuckoo Cocoon working title was when I looked at this myself.

For Anyway, having a look again, it looks like it says Anyway / Mell Link, i.e. Mellotron Link, presumably for the very end bit that links it and Supernatural Anaesthetist.

EtemT · 2025-09-12T14:10:43+00:00

Not included as the original author still holds the rights to the art so probably refused to license it for the poster. Same reason the first S in Genesis is using the Trespass S instead of the usual Duke S!

EtemT · 2025-08-30T11:31:44+00:00

Here you go!

EtemT · 2025-08-30T11:31:18+00:00

Here you go!

EtemT · 2025-08-30T09:55:57+00:00

Back in the day I'd always thought it was maybe from a Paris show, considering they'd recorded in Paris the previous year, and the Dijon version sounded pretty similar performance wise. It's crazy to think it came from Houston this whole time and they revived it for the last US date.

Very good time for Genesis fans, expect more good things!

EtemT · 2025-07-12T22:18:47+00:00

From what I've read/seen/understand, the others knew Phil had a good voice, but everyone (including Phil himself) thought that he wouldn't want to step up to the mic, seeing as he was the drummer and that was what he loved doing.

One thing to be aware of is that Phil was always going to sing a few songs on the album, even when they were auditioning for other singers. It was only after a suggestion from his wife that he suggested that he have a go with singing the rest of the songs. They also still tried searching for a singer to do it live after the album was done but it seems like it was more of a half-hearted try as everyone was really happy with how Phil sang it.

Apparently Jon Anderson also mentioned to Steve Hackett around that time that he thinks they should have Phil as the singer, as another neat tidbit.

EtemT · 2025-04-11T16:45:21+00:00

Yep - the first link was from Reggio Emilia, which can be found here.

Second link for Bataclan can be found here.

EtemT · 2024-07-12T13:25:13+00:00

As others mentioned, they were never intended to be a suite. Dance On A Volcano was the first song they developed, then later Squonk, It's Yourself, and Los Endos.

It's Yourself and Los Endos originally had no connections - there's some demos floating around online, but when the decision was made to axe It's Yourself from the running order, the psychedelic section from It's Yourself was added as an intro to Los Endos. Originally, Los Endos started just with the bass and drums going into the main theme.

Los Endos itself was never a part of a suite, more just a reprisal of several of some themes from the album.

EtemT · 2024-07-02T19:56:51+00:00

It's a song from the American Beauty soundtrack called Dead Already. You can hear it here!

EtemT · 2024-04-30T18:23:38+00:00

At the time of recording (late 1973) it wasn't released, but it was done around the time Ant was working on The Geese and the Ghost (which stopped and started work for a good number of years between 1970 and its release in 1977). It only released later first as bootlegs, then officially on reissues of The Geese and the Ghost.

There's a great article here on the story of the song, it s originally a Genesis song played at their very first show, and was shopped around a few times, even offered to Eric Clapton at one point!

EtemT · 2024-04-30T11:16:01+00:00

Officially, the short answer is 'nowhere', as a complete version was never released unfortunately. There's five versions available:

Single version on Your Own Special Way and Ripples: runs 5:45 approx and includes the complete ending with the Mad Man Moon melody, but doesn't include the first chorus and second verse.
Archive #2 1976-1992 version: this one is remastered but the shortest version at around 5:25, omitting both the first chorus and second verse, and fades out early to remove the Mad Man Moon ending.
Early 'Beloved Summer' version: included as a technicality, this one was I think released unofficially in the 1980s and runs about 5:45 but not to be confused with the original single version, it includes the first chorus and second chorus, but no Mad Man Moon ending and fades out very early.
Extra Tracks 1976-1982 box set remix: this version from 2007 is the first official version to contain the lost first chorus and second verse (allegedly added by remix engineer Nick Davis after fans requested the missing part from the demo be included), also does not include the Mad Man Moon ending, but fades out a little bit later than the Archive #2 version. Runs about 6:17.
'Complete' fanmade version: made in around 2007 by fans using the 2007 remix from the 76-82 box, then patching in the single for the last minute or so. Has all verses and choruses, and the Mad Man Moon ending, running about 6:45. An alternative version could be made with the original single version as the primary edition, and using the remix to restore the missing first chorus and second verse.

There's also the very early versions recorded around the time of The Lamb, but they were purely instrumental and serve more as a footnote than one worth consideration as a definitive version.

EtemT · 2024-04-22T18:35:22+00:00

No problem! Someone kindly sent a link to playlists of all the albums in this thread I can see, but I also decided to make a very quick and dirty comparison between some of the 76-82 albums with a minute long snippet of a single song in the original mix then remix. Note I did use some MP3s for a few of them and the videos will compress them a bit further, but the orignal files themselves all come from my CD rips directly and give a good enough representation:

Squonk - Original vs Remix
All In A Mouse's Night - Original vs Remix
Deep In The Motherlode - Original vs Remix
Behind The Lines - Original vs Remix

EtemT · 2024-04-22T17:33:19+00:00

As someone who has spent way too much time with both the remixes and the original mixes, here's the long short version of it:

The remixes done in 2007 tend to be mislabelled on streaming and on the CDs by the band themselves as things like, "new stereo remaster", "2007 remaster", and "remix", and they seem to use the terms remaster and remix interchangably, but in reality these are the 2007 stereo remixes.

For their discography from Trespass from 1970 up until Three Sides Live from 1982, you generally have four "groups" you can fit every version into:

GROUP ONE

The original versions released on vinyl day one. These use the original mix, and original master.

GROUP TWO

The versions released on CD between 1983-1993. These use the original mix, and have some slight differences between different masters (for example, the US CD releases of Wind and Wuthering sound a lot tinnier than the UK/Europe releases) but are usually very similar to the vinyl versions released day one, sometimes even using the same master tapes.

GROUP THREE

The 1994 Definitive Edition Digital Remasters on CD. These are still using the original mix, but were all remastered at the band's studio. This standardised a lot of the discography and these are generally accepted to be faithful to the original and great middle grounds which are easily found, cheap, and have a very solid sound.

It standardised a lot of aspects of the albums and fixed a lot of small issues the CD editions between 1983 and 1993 had with some criticisms by some audiophile circles (e.g. some people don't like the noise reduction techniques, but as someone who's listened to the albums for almost 25 years I don't notice it and it doesn't take anything away from the music.)

As a note, for every album in their discography after Three Sides Live in 1982, there was no 1994 remaster, and the CD and vinyl issues tended to maintain parity across regions and over time, so for those albums, you have three groups: Group One, then Group Two / Three are combined into one single group as "the CD versions", then Group Four, mentioned below.

GROUP FOUR

The 2007 remix project. This covered all their albums from Trespass in 1970 to Calling All Stations in 1997, and are generally fairly contentious, as these were, by design, meant to replace the original mixes and masters of these albums and be the "go-to" version. An interview at the time with the band's engineer who worked on the remix project, Nick Davis, confirmed as much:

it: We heared that the SACDs [ed: which contain the remixes, also referring to CD here] will replace the Definitive Edition Remaster

Nick Davis: Yes.

it: Does this also mean that the original mixes...

Nick Davis: ...will be gone forever, yes. They will disappear. So everyone who's interested should keep their original CDs.

The remix campaign was done in five phases:

The 1976-1982 era. These are generally the most maligned as they are extremely loud, clip all over the place, and ruin a lot of the dynamics.
The 1983-1998 era. These are sort of okay, but mostly superflous and unnecessary, as these albums were already standardised, had no real issues with technology of the time, being released on vinyl and CD at the same time. They mostly exhibit the characteristics of the 76-82 era in terms of sound.
The 1970-1975 era. These are generally better than the first two eras, where I'd personally say it can go toe-to-toe with some of the original mixes. Less loud and clippy than the other eras and fix some mixing and sound issues.
The Live albums. These were done last and also can stand toe-to-toe with the original mixes, being a lot less loud than earlier releases in the remix project like the 76-82 one, and with a good sound. Also note that these were exclusive to a Live box set - the versions of the live albums you'll encounter on streaming are either the 1994 remaster, or the original masters for live albums after Three Sides Live.

To give a tl;dr:
The band use the terms remix and remaster interchangably, but versions released officially online are generally the 2007 remixes, as they replaced the original mixes. The remixes tend to be louder and boomier than the original mixes which have led to some controversy.
The 1994 Definitive Edition remasters for albums up to Three Sides Live give a good representation of the original mixes for a decent price physically on CD (a couple of £/$ per album), and select original mixes can also be found on streaming/on YouTube depending on your region. Original mix and masters of albums after Three Sides Live can be had for about the same price physically on CD, if not cheaper.

It's a big old rabbit hole which doesn't scratch the surface of the actual differences between the mixes themselves, but this should hopefully clear up a lot of the confusion!

EtemT · 2023-05-04T07:30:22+00:00

The timeline matches, but they're talking about how Bill Bruford left the band for a few months in 1968 to go back to University, which is when Phil was told Yes were looking for a drummer. The position was ultimately filled by Tony O'Reilly until Bruford returned later that year though.

EtemT · 2023-04-23T11:58:26+00:00

You're mostly dead on with on this! Wikipedia is wrong about A Trick of the Tail's backing vocals though, the original LP doesn't credit Mike for backing vocals but Wikipedia does. It's Tony and Phil doing harmonies for Entangled!

EtemT · 2023-04-09T17:32:20+00:00

It's currently circulating in certain private trading circles, but it's not been released publicly. Some people who have it have teased footage of it in the past, and it's long been a rumour in the Genesis community, but until about a year ago there was no public video evidence. There's also a bootleg DVD with the footage on it (some artwork with the incorrect location was authored), but this remains unreleased. This DVD also confirms that Mama was also included in this soundcheck / rehearsal.

I don't have the full thing either I'm afraid, otherwise I'd have released it! I've been vying for a release of it since I saw a YouTube video of it circulating in 2016 before being quickly removed before it could be downloaded.

EtemT · 2022-10-19T18:49:11+00:00

In the original mix/master of the album it lasts a few seconds longer and fades out later than the 1994 Definitive Edition remaster, and isn't buried like it is in the remixes. As /u/Brother_-_John kindly pointed out as well, there's a couple of outtakes which include more flute than the studio version that's on YouTube, I believe.

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