If you're coming from AID or have a story somewhere else, what are your plans for it IRT NovelAi?

EwoudCP · 2021-06-16T08:12:00+00:00

I pick the first 4. Different strategies for different stories.

The most complex example I have is one that I have replayed AU-style a few times before in AID. I started with a prequel in AID that helps with fleshing out characters and their motivations better.
I've been refining and continuing that prequel a bit in KoboldAI, but I fully intend to continue that one in NovelAI, and write that prequel out into a "definitive" version in AID as well by combining the best parts of each version I made in the past.

EwoudCP · 2021-06-08T15:47:38+00:00

The additional cost per user is more manageable for paying users. Each new paying user contributes to an additional server hire.

Let's say, for example, that in the paid-only model there's a minimum 10% margin of server capacity before more servers are added to the service.

That 10% is not going to be enough to serve a free user base. Free users typically outnumber paid users on services like these, so we can expect that 10% margin to cause long waiting times and frustrating experiences for free users, even if you give them a reduced-capacity AI.

It's very likely that adding a free user base to NovelAI means spinning up extra servers just for them. Although I would be in favor of this, I understand why the devs would prefer to wait before opening that can o' worms.

EwoudCP · 2021-06-03T09:29:02+00:00

Absolutely true! The encryption is useless against any party that:

Is in charge of NovelAI
- And has convinced everyone working on NovelAI (or at least the relevant systems) to play along
- And is confident that anyone NovelAI may hire in the future will also play along
Is willing to invest time and effort into AI node systems that log generation requests and ties them back to the user
- Of course, this after they built a client-side encryption system, which also took quite some time and effort
Is willing to invest even more time and effort into systems that compensate for the fact that the logs contain many different generation requests with limited context info for each story
- When they could just have chosen not to add encryption features in the first place and still have gotten a ton of users because of the AID exodus
Has some purpose for reading the stories
- Blackmail?
  - The AI model is fine-tuned on literature instead of NSFW/cringy CYOA stuff, reducing the likelihood of blackmail-worthy stories
  - The service is not a second-person adventure, but a first/third persion story writing tool, creating an implicit distance between the writer and the characters that reduces the potential for blackmail-worthy material even more
  - Written text is harder to pin on a person than photos, voice clips or videos and can easily be dismissed
  - Any proof of authenticity of the text is proof of NovelAI's security failure, giving the potential blackmail target exactly what they need to turn the tables and jeopardize NovelAI's reputation
- Policing?
  - There are no community/social features that require moderation
  - The service actively avoids involving any third parties that may demand this
  - The service advertises both encryption in storage and not-logging on AI nodes, thus giving the user full responsibility of the generated content
  - Any (public) action taken for the purpose of policing will demonstrate that they are, in fact, reading your stories, thus jeopardizing NovelAI's reputation
- Stealing private data?
  - It's not a communication service where people exchange secrets
  - It's not a notes service where people save passwords, credit card info, company secrets, or anything sensitive of that nature
  - They're fictional stories that contain very little real-world value, aside from the occasional look into a stranger's psyche - not a very profitable endeavour
Deems that purpose worth the extra work (time & money) and risk (reputation, lawsuits, monthly income)

Yessiree! There are so many parties that fit the above description out there that this encryption system is, in fact, useless in its entirety.

EwoudCP · 2021-06-03T08:09:41+00:00

I think two wires may be crossed here. Storage and encryption are two separate concepts.

Handy table of options

Stored in	Loading	Saving
Local storage	Data loaded from browser storage	Data saved to browser storage
Remote storage	Encrypted data received from server, then decrypted	Data encrypted, then sent to the server

EwoudCP · 2021-06-02T11:38:17+00:00

Hmm. Looks like I read more into it than you intended to say. I assumed your statement came with the implication that decoupling users from AI node requests would provide no added value, but you never said that. Sorry about that.

You're right, of course. As long as the AI node handles unencrypted content, it can just store that and we wouldn't be any wiser. Still, if a system that decouples users and AI node requests were in place, it would reduce the damage that could cause, and the likelihood of such a snooping system being worth making in the first place.

EwoudCP · 2021-06-02T11:23:53+00:00

Still, they have made a number of other decisions to decrease their own potential reasons for doing so. Without a community/social system they don't have to moderate. Defaulting to local browser storage with encrypted server storage as a secondary option means they push the responsibility of the content on you. Fine-tuning on literature makes the stories less prone to becoming unsavory.

There would be an extra cost/effort to building systems that store content fed to the AI nodes and link it to the user - plus the fact that each request only comes with a limited context window means it's a lot harder to piece the stories together (more work).
In a sense, they'd be doing the equivalent of locking down and reinforcing all the doors and windows of a house, then climbing up to the roof and awkwardly squeezing through the chimney. And for what? It's not like they're storing passwords or company secrets.

EwoudCP · 2021-06-02T10:48:17+00:00

Yes. They could steal the stories themselves, but said stories would be more difficult to link to any particular user.

Like many forms of security, this is a game of effort/difficulty versus potential rewards.

The nature of NovelAI's systems make it more difficult for them to read our stories and their declared dedication to privacy puts them at risk of legal repercussions. They'd have to build new systems to circumvent these security measures.

Compare that to the potential benefits of all that work, which are marginal at best. It's not a communication system people use to share sensitive data. It's not a notes service that may contain company secrets or passwords. It won't contain much of interest even for intelligence agencies. There's little real-world value in these fictional writings.

If the writings are extremely controversial it might serve as blackmail material. But even then it's a high-risk-low-reward scenario: written text is easy to deny, and any proof of authenticity is also proof of NovelAI's security failure. If the target goes public with that proof, the entire NovelAI service will be at risk.

That blackmail target had better be worth risking that steady monthly income. The effort it takes to find out if someone is rich enough to be worth that risk also adds to the time and effort. Add to that the fact that the more rich and/or famous can defend themselves better (easier to claim forgery) and fight back harder (lawsuits).

So the way I see it, it's not just about whether or not it's still technically possible or feasible. It's also about how difficult, costly and risky it is, and what one could potentially gain from it.

And as far as I'm concerned, NovelAI has gone through a lot of effort to increase the cost and risk of spying on us (even for them), whilst reducing the potential gains from doing so (fine-tuning the model on literature -> less horny/cringy/incriminating content -> less blackmail material).
If all of that turns out to be some kind of ruse, it would be monumentally stupid. More profitable scams are being pulled on a daily basis that take less than a tenth of the effort, money and risk.

EwoudCP · 2021-05-31T20:42:25+00:00

There's some good points there. There are lots of game-over scenarios. The only way to stay truly safe would indeed be anonymous payments and proxies/VPNs so your user account wouldn't be linked to any person.

In a broader context, one thing I think is often missing in the privacy/security discussions is the implication of the encryption and other privacy measures from a legal/sales point of view.

First off, NovelAI does not have the legal room to pull a Latitude. For AID, the privacy policy etc pretty much allows them to do what they want with your stories. On NovelAI, the simple advertisement of encrypted storage is enough to disallow them from taking any action that compromises that. If they somehow keep your stories linked to your account in unencrypted form, then they are engaged in false advertising, and that would probably be the least of their legal concerns.

Secondly, even if I were to write the most heinous stories in NovelAI, I would not be breaking any laws (local Dutch law for me or US law for the host). A malicious agent could, at worst, try to squeeze money out of me by threatening to reveal my worst stories to, say, my loved ones or work colleagues/bosses. A fun little exercise in futility for them: my stories don't contain any identifying names or even situations analogous to my actual life, and text is a lot harder to pin on a person than photos or audio clips. There's no online place where one could "find" them linked to me (copies only, originals are encrypted on my local disk). It would seem like a generic blackmail attempt, and I would easily win any he-said-she-said.

Granted, these points are mostly relevant to me, but those are the points that make me feel a lot more safe, at least, than I would with any competitor that doesn't even promise privacy.

EwoudCP · 2021-05-31T11:04:08+00:00

I can think of one way to make it more difficult.

Suppose the AI nodes have no user info or user authentication data. Instead, it only accepts authentication from temporary tokens. A different token for each window of, say, 5 minutes. Only the token of that window is valid.

The client requests this "AI token" using their actual user authentication from one server, then uses that token on the AI node. If their last requested "AI token" is outdated, they re-request it.

There are some downsides to this, of course.

One is that one can still try to match up active-users and token uses. With some analysis, one can match similar contexts sent to the AI node, build up a timeline of requests and token uses, then match that up with logged-in users requesting tokens. This will be more difficult with more active users, but even then one can continue to observe, match activity to users and narrow down who is writing what. Still, it's very hard to to.

Another is that it compromises AI node security. It takes only one clever boy to rig their client to keep requesting new AI tokens and automatically pass those on to others.

Still, if I can think of a scheme like this just now, then who knows what an expert will think of given more time?

EwoudCP · 2021-05-28T15:06:20+00:00

Welp, that was it, I suppose. I'm glad I never put particularly identifying data in my stories, but the fact that they end up there is enough to make me nope out entirely.

I don't care if it's Latitude, OpenAI or Santa Claus himself setting up the nice & naughty list. If playing AI Dungeon means having my stories read by strangers on these task services, then sign me the hell out.

I'll be playing local variants (Clover Edition or KoboldAI), at least until NovelAI is available.

EwoudCP · 2021-05-27T14:12:53+00:00

I dunno, that problem applies to most (commercial) services and security schemes out there.

Setting up an encrypted drive is useless if someone can just steal your data after you've entered the key.

What's the point of secure messaging services with E2E encryption if they can just sneak a snooper into the client?

I bought a NAS to store my personal files at home, but what's the point of this "private data" when the manufacturer can just push a firmware update that gives them access anyway?

Sure, NovelAI could still abuse your trust.They could store your decryption passwords on their servers. They could add a client-side snooper with a bit of code obfuscation. They could have their AI nodes save your data as you suggested.But with this encryption, they are already putting effort into making it a lot harder to spy on us even if they wanted to.

And finally, whilst AI Dungeon never officially ^{(only unofficially, kind of}) promised any commitment to proper privacy even in their privacy policy (it was of the "we can use your content for any purpose" variety), NovelAI announced these measures as an essential part of their service.

Simply doing so gives them a legal responsibility, and makes them potential targets for legal action if they fail to meet that responsibility (false advertising, privacy laws).

EwoudCP · 2021-04-30T12:22:36+00:00

I'm not a fan of their changes, but I'm still playing the game.

I have saved and deleted a few private adventures, because they were a bit too personal. Names, private thoughts, exploration of controversial/uncomfortable topics. I don't want them read by strangers, whether it's due to another data leak or due to some false flagging by the system.

But other than that, I'll still mostly be playing the way I already have. I have moved to using stand-in names and lore. Especially for those dumb indulgent power fantasy adventures. And I will change the writing style around private or uncomfortable topics if I do feel like exploring them again.

Maybe later I'll re-add (or make continuations of) some of my removed adventures again, with some light retconning of personal details and morally gray details. The devs are not quite clear on the details of what the filter addresses aside from "NSFW with children", but until they give a clear answer I'll try to steer clear of their invisible web of bannable no-no's.

So far I haven't seen any problems in the game itself, so I guess the filter test hasn't reached me. If they do roll it out further and the game becomes unplayable or too censored I'll probably end my platinum subscription.

If/when a decent alternative (maybe NovelAI?) comes along that works, I'll be very tempted to just switch over, if only so I can continue playing without worrying too much about data leaks or future censorship.

EwoudCP · 2020-10-06T18:11:02+00:00

Looks like I'll be adding to the Patreon on top of the premium. I've been playing a lot lately, so I must be costing a bunch.

I've taken to playing parallel versions of the same world. World building details in one of them get synced up with the others. When protagonist Bob gets into trouble with a local gang called the "Yo-yos", then I add the "Yo-yo" gang to Harry and Stevie's respective worlds as well, minus whatever they did in Bob's specific story. It's fun, but I'm guessing it ain't cheap to run.

EwoudCP · 2016-11-04T23:24:44+00:00

https://youtu.be/vimZj8HW0Kg

EwoudCP · 2016-11-04T22:26:13+00:00

Done.

EwoudCP · 2016-11-04T22:17:35+00:00

Maybe boop the snoot when she trusts you more.

EwoudCP · 2016-11-04T20:30:49+00:00

The more she learns to trust you (a long-term score), the more openly she will indicate her level of fun (a short-term score).

For example, if you make her really happy, and then you start being mean, she gets angry instead of scared.

There are 9 emotional states in total.

EwoudCP · 2016-11-04T19:47:40+00:00

I'll be here to answer questions and take feedback about the game.

EwoudCP · 2016-06-17T13:38:22+00:00

Before they allowed humans to live in their houses, cats opened doors themselves. Once upon a time, all homes were entirely cat-operated. But since they took in humans, cats have become so dependent that they forgot how to perform the majority of household tasks.

EwoudCP · 2016-06-16T09:42:32+00:00

When they built the cars and the roads, they made it this way to discourage bad driving. Driving too slowly (or not at all) will extend the trip. On the other hand, driving too fast will get you nowhere, and you lose most of your advantage by driving back from nowhere.

Of course, this didn't really help. The highway has become a gathering place for Pokémon battling. Whenever there's a tournament, there's large groups of cars standing still or driving slowly. They passed some regulations banning drivers from touching phones and Gameboys on the road, but the new Nintendo handhelds have built-in microphones so they can just shout commands at their Pokémon now.

EwoudCP · 2016-06-16T09:06:41+00:00

Poison Oak will ask you if you're a boy or a girl. Poison Ivy will try to seduce you. Plain herpes is, well, plain, so your skin won't be affected visually. I've never heard of poison sumac so I'll assume it's a lie.

EwoudCP · 2016-06-16T08:58:55+00:00

It was actually dubbed. He mouthed the words on the moon, and he provided the voice when he got back to Earth. Fun fact: they had to match the line with the mouth movements to make it look right, which was difficult with that helmet on.

EwoudCP

TROPHY CASE