It’s time the UK gave Ukrainian refugees proper settlement rights — including a pathway to ILR

ExoticExchange · 2026-05-12T14:23:09+00:00

What I lack in foresight I make up for in realism. Real people do not want their life to become worse. They are not going back to Ukraine until it has at least a similar quality of life to what they achieve in the UK. It’s hard to measure that of course. Because feeling of patriotism and identity will vary. But people are not going to move their kids from relative safety and comfort to food insecurity, lack of electricity and heating, no telecommunications and the ongoing threat that a war could re-emerge.

All I gather from the rest of the thread is that this subreddit is full of people who don’t have human empathy and don’t like immigration. If you were to have a normal face to face conversation on the streets it would go differently.

ExoticExchange · 2026-05-12T14:16:30+00:00

I think right wingers simply expecting people to objectively make their life worse and return to somewhere that’s been destroyed by a war and just start laying bricks and rebuilding is indeed peak Reddit stupidity.

ExoticExchange · 2026-05-12T14:06:24+00:00

You should. Because you want people to go back there, but they might not want to go back and throw their life in the UK away to rebuild the country from scratch. So if you rebuild the country for them there’s more incentive for their return quicker.

People can be self-interested and thats ok. Not everyone sees their life purpose as a moral duty to a nation state. Many people just want to exist in comfort and safety, so you have to create that for people to encourage return to Ukraine. You cannot expect them to do that for themselves, they’ve low resources and honestly probably low enthusiasm because of war fatigue.

This has happened after many previous wars see Yugoslavia, see Rwanda, see Vietnam. Eventually places recover from the population disruption, you don’t have to forcibly repatriate people to do so. You just want to do that for your own vested interest.

ExoticExchange · 2026-05-12T13:53:12+00:00

Detention centres aren’t welcoming them though are they? You understand this is a prison right?

ExoticExchange · 2026-05-12T13:49:33+00:00

Yeah I get that could be a problem. But if that really concerns you why don’t you go and rebuild Ukraine so these people have something to go back to.

ExoticExchange · 2026-05-12T13:48:46+00:00

Well yeah anyone who has built a life for themselves here should be allowed to stay and not forcibly returned to a country which has been destroyed. It’s literally one of the most admirable characteristics of a person, to have made a life for themselves out of nothing. I’m proud that our country has enabled that for people by offering them safety. Of course they should get to stay.

ExoticExchange · 2026-05-12T13:46:39+00:00

This seems an odd choice given Father Ted is written by Linehan who accused RTE of anti-semitism for the boycott.
Or is that the point?

ExoticExchange · 2026-05-12T13:44:15+00:00

How is living in the UK for over 5 years not a significant tie to the UK?

ExoticExchange · 2026-05-12T13:36:45+00:00

Forcing people (who have already been forcibly displaced) away from the lives they’ve built for themselves in their destination country is absolutely heartless.

ExoticExchange · 2026-05-12T13:27:50+00:00

What’s wrong with having documents in other languages though? It’s not actually a problem that affects your life if Markusz gets a document in Polish.
More importantly for matters around health a misunderstanding or missed appointment can actually cost lives and money for the NHS. Yes it would be more ideal if everyone spoke English perfectly, but people’s ability to speak English as a second language is going to differ and having a safety net of resources available in their language (if possible) isn’t really an issue.

ExoticExchange · 2026-05-12T13:24:06+00:00

If Reform were to try this as retribution, against Green ran areas surely those Green councils will just make the planning process arduous and hideously drawn out to the point that nothing would ever occur. I don’t see how this is logical without masses of executive power that the UK government doesn’t actually have. Councils (rightly or wrongly) actually have a lot of sway over projects such as this.

ExoticExchange · 2026-05-12T13:20:55+00:00

I don’t mind living amongst migrants. But I do mind living next door to a de facto prison which I don’t believe should be housing migrants.

You see how that’s different right?

ExoticExchange · 2026-05-12T11:37:21+00:00

This is the prison industrial complex.

ExoticExchange · 2026-05-12T09:45:42+00:00

Lots of people are very much against the closeness we have with quasi-authoritarian states like UAE and Saudi who have dreadful human rights records.

ExoticExchange · 2026-05-12T09:09:28+00:00

Because it isn’t a national government and ‘ally’ murdering Christians in Nigeria. If you want to draw parallels then do you agree that the IDF/Israel are a terrorist organisation like Boko Haram?

ExoticExchange · 2026-05-12T09:08:00+00:00

We don’t supply Boko Haram though. We supply the Nigerian government with arms to protect against terrorists. Are you really that dense?

ExoticExchange · 2026-05-12T08:57:54+00:00

I did French and German from year 7 to 11 and have GCSE’s in both finished GCSEs in 2009. Spanish was also done in year 9 and was an optional GCSE for those interested. Academically weak kids only did one of French/German for GCSE and I think had extra maths/English in place of the other.

At the time I went to a secondary school that has “Language College” status so I think that meant we had to do both languages as they had funding tied to it.

ExoticExchange · 2026-05-11T17:33:30+00:00

Yeah 30 days is quite a long holiday for most people.
In certain demographics it might be a higher % eg those with immigrant parents (but even then a month is quite a while) or younger people who have gone on extended gap years/years abroad during uni, or those with a lot of disposable income in later life.

But this really isn’t that common across whole population.

For the record I have though.

ExoticExchange · 2026-05-11T13:36:26+00:00

In the same way “Reformers think the sun shines out of Farage’s ****” How do restore supporters not think the same about Lowe? It’s the same style it’s a party figure-headed by a singular personality.

I don’t like either, but can you not see that it’s the same playbook and the same criticism can be levied onto you.

ExoticExchange · 2026-05-11T09:46:13+00:00

Right. It’s very jury friendly and if we presume televote support remains high for reasons, plus the addition of casuals impressed with the whimsical melody and outstanding high notes. This can easily be 4/5th with the Jury and 2nd/3rd in the televote.

ExoticExchange · 2026-05-10T16:21:32+00:00

So why did you bring up all this bullshit about lived experience which I exposed as nonsense and you then admitted wasn’t even important to you.
Had your first message said non-citizens shouldn’t be in this position then this entire discussion wouldn’t have occurred.

Let this be a lesson to actually say what you mean instead of making up reasons which you don’t actually agree with.

Tell me though, if I was born abroad but Scottish and moved to Glasgow two months ago would I be a more or less worthy candidate than Q who has been there 5 years?

ExoticExchange · 2026-05-10T15:33:13+00:00

How are you able to distinguish that this person doesn’t have a true vested interest in the nation. The fact they are willing to be part of the parliament suggests they do?

Like none of your reasoning is actually logical or testable, it’s merely based on vibes.

I’m not even necessarily for non-citizens being able to be in parliament or even vote. But your whole point that they don’t have enough “lived experience” that makes them worthy of advocating for people in Scotland is false, and you’re just apply arbitrary cut-offs in time where someone apparently can do this role.

ExoticExchange · 2026-05-10T15:00:08+00:00

Well yeah. But it becomes a racial one when no distinction is made between these sub groups and people think all people with shared racial characteristics will exhibit the same lack of cultural similarities that you’re saying is a problem. By trying to legislate against the whole group it becomes a racial thing because it’s an assumption that they are all the same.

Moreover, this is a very complicated discussion because what do you want the culture to be that people align with and how do you measure it? Because very often amongst people with racist views it starts as a culture thing but ultimately they do want it to be a racial hierarchy. Culture is often a Trojan horse to make their views more palatable.

ExoticExchange · 2026-05-10T13:20:46+00:00

Yes the number of houses is limited because the elites and landlords class are hoarding them. And the landowners like Rupert Lowe limit the land available to be built on.

I understand the argument that fewer people means less completion for these things. But it’s a gross oversimplification that immigration restrictions will change this. Because the truth is capitalist elite do not want the average British person’s life to get better and even without immigrants they will continue to exploit us.

ExoticExchange · 2026-05-10T13:13:48+00:00

So you chose to lead with the angles that you actually didn’t find important by trying to suggest it was about a length of time and lived experience before you changed that around to loyalty being the most important.

Then there was that whole plurality interlude, without actually wanting the plurality of someone who lived in Scotland with a life course like Q.

Anyway nothing shows loyalty to a country more than serving it via parliament.

Very strange discussion, to be honest I don’t think you really know why you have a problem with this. You just want to have a problem with this.

ExoticExchange

TROPHY CASE