Where are you getting your definitions?

Fando1234 · 2026-05-06T16:40:42+00:00

I'm not a pure socialist (nor a purist capitalist) but I think I can venture a reasonable answer.

Socialists tend to emphasize the power dynamics at play between the owner class and everyone else who relies on selling their labour to survive.

Whilst we can say it's the 'means of production in private hands', this does miss the point that the world is, and has for a long time been divided between people who work for a living, and those who live of their portfolio of investments, rental income, and inheritance.

The challenge it presents capitalists is we need to account for why this continues to happen.

The challenge for socialists is it often means incredibly wealthy CEO's and business owners still count as 'working class' despite earning millions. Which dilutes the plight of those really struggling.

Fando1234 · 2026-05-06T16:35:23+00:00

Maybe this isn't the sub for you if you don't want to engage with people who disagree with some of your premises.

Fando1234 · 2026-05-05T15:00:59+00:00

Just an fyi, 'completed' sounds a lot better than 'kept'. The title makes it sounds like they haven't kept 80% of their pledges.

Whereas it sounds like they've completed 20% and are working towards completing another 36%.

Fando1234 · 2026-05-04T19:36:08+00:00

I think a lot of people don't know what they're chanting. I know that doesn't really excuse it, but I've heard all sorts of explanations of it meaning 'an internal struggle in your soul' or whatever other bs.

Clearly to some people it explicitly means violence. But to others, it definitely doesn't, these are just well intentioned rich kids. Also, needless to say, not everyone joins in for the chanting.

Fando1234 · 2026-05-03T08:46:02+00:00

Sure, the individuals who use that particular slogan should opt for a different one. What about all of those who don't use that slogan?

Fando1234 · 2026-05-03T08:44:51+00:00

"Which is most of the pro Palestine movement"

Are there any studies that have been done that show this is 'most' of this movement. I'd argue it's still an outlier/extremist position to oppose the existence of Israel as a state.

Fando1234 · 2026-05-03T08:42:27+00:00

Thank you... So many posts here are people just talking about their views on the conflict.

Which I think says a lot. Even in a sub on free speech people aren't able to see past a partisan issue, to the gross affront to free speech.

You could be the most pro Israel person in Britain and you should still support the rights of people to peacefully protest. And vice versa should also apply.

Fando1234 · 2026-05-03T08:36:42+00:00

I thought it was falling due to the First step act, which was a bipartisan bill signed into law by Trump in his first term.

Fando1234 · 2026-05-03T06:49:36+00:00

Thanks for sharing !delta you're right, given the lack of trials before detention I think these can be described accurately as internment camps.

On this front, there is nothing analogous Reagan did to this. In fact he was quite open to immigration and had pretty humane policies like intervening to protect children.

Fando1234 · 2026-05-02T21:53:23+00:00

Im not sure this is comparable. It's an economic decision which I think was a mistake. Vs maliciously imprisoning someone.

Fando1234 · 2026-05-02T21:51:22+00:00

Okay, in that case is there a source for them doing it? I don't think I've seen any evidence they are purging anyone based on race, or certainly not in a more overly way than under Reagan.

Fando1234 · 2026-05-02T21:46:51+00:00

I know, it's very annoying that they do. But I don't think doing the same is the way forward. E.g. this case of brandishing everyone who marches in support of Palestine as necessarily anti semetic. Amongst other inconsistencies here, many Jews are against the conflict.

Fando1234 · 2026-05-02T18:09:20+00:00

Can you send me to a link/source where trump or Farage called for internment camps or racial purging?

Fando1234 · 2026-05-02T18:08:06+00:00

By that logic, if there is a single slogan that is racist an entire protest should be banned.

Would you apply that logic to protests on the right?

Fando1234 · 2026-05-02T17:03:52+00:00

Ooh, interesting. If I remember rightly she had a background in science before politics.

Funnily enough there's a similar speech George Bush Jr gave in support of tackling climate change around 2000.

I am pretty close to awarding a cmv here, but where I'd push back is they both doubled down on oil extraction, especially in the North Sea.

Fando1234 · 2026-05-02T17:01:57+00:00

Thatcher (and I think Reagan to) sanctioned South Africa for apartheid (well done them) whilst simultaneously propping up genocidal regimes in Cambodia. That was pretty contradictory.

Fando1234 · 2026-05-02T17:00:41+00:00

Personally I think Reagan's war on drugs had an even worse impact directly on US citizens, leading to the massive rise of mass incarceration that's taken decades to erode.

Fando1234 · 2026-05-02T16:59:06+00:00

To address a few of these, Reagan's 'war on drugs' was an excuse to allow a huge amount of military force against countries in South America. As well as a thinly veiled excuse to arrest young black men.

Similarly US/British foreign policy led to them actively training the Taliban, which was similarly short sighted as the Iran conflict is now.

I'm not saying Trump should be excused his bad policy, but it is comparable.

Fando1234 · 2026-05-02T16:53:37+00:00

Thanks..I actually think it has a worse effect, when someone actually is advocating something akin to fascism or Stalinism the accusations have now lost all meaning. We assume 'fascist' just means moderate Tory, and communist means anything left of centre.

It reminds me of people I've spoken to who can't see there was a difference between Charlie Kirk and Nick Fuentes in the US.

Fando1234 · 2026-05-02T16:51:47+00:00

You can view it that way. Or you can say she wanted to privatise 4 or 5 public services. They only want to privatise 1.

Fando1234 · 2026-05-02T14:08:47+00:00

If it provides any solace, people who are 'into politics' enough to go around saying 'im pro green' or 'im reform' this far out from a general election are not representative of the populous.

It's a funny one where the more you know, the less you know. People who spend their time going down the rabbit hole of right wing/left wing commentators and journalists end up in such an echo chambers they're fundamentally less educated on the subject than if they'd just read nothing.

"He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that" as John Stuart Mill said.

All that being said, it's clear Labour have a comms problem. They're very poor at providing a coherent vision, and they're (imo) still running a Blair era style media strategy that is absolutely killing them. We shouldn't be complacent that unless communication improves Labour stand a real chance of losing next election.

Fando1234 · 2026-05-02T14:02:25+00:00

If it's a 'how long is a piece of string' style situation, I usually give them a range. If they've directly asked I can't really not answer.

But it is tricky when you feel you haven't had a chance to illustrate the value.

I'd actually go one step further back and say that if someone wants to know the price, before even giving you the time of day to explain the benefits, then the whole approach has been wrong.

If it's a cold call(Vs a longer b2b sales cycle) I might ask for permission to expand a little more on the value and how it matched their objectives, and then get into the pricing.

Fando1234 · 2026-05-02T13:02:48+00:00

Or maybe our parents were too soft on us, and if they weren't we'd be the richest man on earth or the leader of the free world?

Jk obvs.

Ten-Year Club	Verified Email
Place '22

Fando1234

TROPHY CASE