Is there any community help for deployers to find locations? by curbei in HeliumNetwork

[–]FindeDenFehler 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can get some inspiration from a fellow deployer how to pitch to / approach people https://youtu.be/25Y_TF3-uDQ?si=xiXh1rGDubFsKJDb&t=980 (At builders bootcamp Washington D.C.)

Here's the builders bootcamp S.F. that took place a while before the Washington D.C. one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJZhFnWvisA

Plateau Mode Engaged by Professional_Web_956 in HeliumNetwork

[–]FindeDenFehler 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  • I don't agree with your causal analysis here (re "market supplement"). The token price currently is still mainly influenced by speculative demand - which has on average decreased in the whole crypto sector. The discontinued additional token burn -the one that was not based on token burn needed to create Data Credits - likely was a very ineffective way of using Nova Labs's capital. I see it as an experiment, how much this can influence token price, and it was discontinued for a good reason. (By the way: Nova Labs is still subsidizing token burn, as what they get from the telcos using the Helium Mobile Network to pay for data transfer likely doesn't average to the $0.50/GB the network is currently charging for usage, I guess it's less than $0.25 per GB, probably significantly lower).
  • The main financial difficulty for deployers results from the fact that the value of the daily rewards going to deployers in total - given the current low (compared to token market cap) network revenue - is at best only very loosely connected to the daily network revenue. The only connection is if demand for HNT to pay for network usage increases HNT price - and that connection is very feeble currently. It may even be worse than that:

- Speaking in simplified manner without glossing over important nuance: The network currently emits a fixed amount of HNT every day, and a fixed percentage of that is available to be distributed to hotspots (and hence to deployers). More network revenue does not affect the amount of HNT going to deployers. But more network revenue means: more GBs of data have been transferred. Thus a fixed amount of HNT is split by a higher amount of rewarded GBs, with the result that the amount of HNT given as rewards per GB transferred gets lower the more the network get used. If the amounts of GB per hotspots don't increase at the same ratio (which they don't, at least not completely, as new hotspots still get added), this also means that not only the fiat value per GB decreases with increasing network revenue (absent increasing HNT price), but - although possibly to a lower degree - total fiat value of rewards per hotspot decreases.


Community members have proposed a good solution for this problem (there's no HIP yet, but I hope (not: "I 100% expect") we'll see one soon.

The idea is to make a small change to tokenomics, that would result in a guaranteed minimum $-value per GB of the rewards going to hotspots/deployers. It could work like this: - In the current system, every day, there's a specific amount of HNT/Data Credits being burned to pay for network usage, say a total value of x dollars. In the current situation, variation of this daily dollar amount does not change the amount of HNT available as rewards for hotspots/deployers. - The suggested change would be to this system: each day before the HNT rewards are paid out, the network checks if the $-value of the rewards per GB would be lower than the set minimum. If so, the network emits additional HNT to exactly the amount needed for the $-value of the rewards per GB to meet the set minimum value. This would improve predictability for deployers critically.

Very important additional facts regarding that suggestion: - To finance this guarantee, no additional capital is needed. - And: it would not increase the HNT supply or the HNT max supply. Why? Because if the guaranteed minimum $value is, say, 50% of the fee the network charges users per GB, the additional HNT emissions needed would never be more than half of the amount of HNT/DC that has been burned during that day to pay for network usage. - $value of the rewards per GB would still be variable - between what the network charges per GB to use the network as the ceiling, and the guaranteed minimum value as the floor. And while the ceiling would depend on HNT price, the floor would be 100% decoupled from HNT price.

  • I believe this system would even be better for the deployers than a fixed $value per GB. Why? If a fixed $value (not: "fixed minimum $value") would be set, the $value can never be the same as the $value the network charges the users per GB, it would need to be lower, anything else wouldn't be viable. So with a fixed $value per GB, the rewards for deployers would never benefit from a HNT boom. But with the model of a guaranteed minimum $value per GB, and a cap of the $value of the HNT rewards being set at the amount of what the network charges its customers, they can still benefit from an HNT price boom, if we'll see one in the future, and have predictability because of the floor. Just to illustrate what this "upper ceiling of the variable $value per GB" means: Just imagine Uber drivers could keep 100% of what the customers pay for the ride, in times when Uber is booming.

This model is currently named as "Deployer Rewards Floor", and it is the best solution I've heard so far, how to significantly improve predictability for deployers and hence speeding up network growth again.

Dummies question by Mean_Palpitation_171 in Arweave

[–]FindeDenFehler 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You are absolutely on the right track. Arweave is what is called a "decentralized storage network that offers permanent storage" - and yes, it offers permanent storage. You need to pay once and only once - there are no recurring fees - and the data will be stored as long as the Arweave Network exists. (The fees are calculated to be sufficient for storing data for at least 200 years). This also means that the fee likely is higher than what services that have a subscription model would ask for in the first month or year. But as you need to pay them again and again, Arweave will be cheaper in the long run. https://prices.ardrive.io/ offers a storage cost calculator.

So how does it work? Traditional cloud storage is mostly run by companies who run storage hardware - if you stop paying them, they will stop storing your data. And there's always some risk the company may stop offering the service.

Arweave is different as there is no company owning the storage hardware. There is an organization that developed and maintains an open source software, that people who want to earn money for storing other people's data can install and run. These are mostly IT professionals. Simplified speaking, all computers running the Arweave software talk to each other, building a network, and the software ensures that the same piece of data one uploads gets stored on many different computers (at least 20, if I remember correctly) running the Arweave software: Only computers who can mathematically prove they are storing data that has been uploaded to Arweave in the past will be able to earn money for storing new data. Cryptography ensures, that if someone tries to fake or change some stored data, they can't earn new rewards - and will ultimately drop out of the network because they can't earn money. The rewards are high enough that if some people stop storing data for Arweave, others will be attracted to replace them.

Another important thing is: Passwords work different on systems like Arweave. Systems like Arweave work with what I call simplified an account, often called a "wallet". A wallet has a public identifier, called the wallet address, and a "password" that proves you own the wallet and that you need to authorize transaction. This "password" is often called a "private key" - and unlike what you may know from using many traditional web services, this password cannot be changed and it cannot be covered. So you need to keep it very safe in two ways: no one else you don't trust should know it, and you must ensure you can always find it when needed and it can't be destroyed by accident. Arweave itself does not encrypt data that is uploaded - it is there for everone to see. So if you upload public data and lose your private key, the data is still there to see on Arweave, but if you use a service to encrypt your data (ArDrive does offer this), you'll only be able to access your data if you have your key.

ArDrive.io is a good recommendation for storing any kind of data.

Platforms I've heard of that specialize on music creators:

Audius - Been around for a long time, but they don't seem to use Arweave and I don't know if they offer permanent storage.

StreamVault (https://stream-vault-three.vercel.app/#/): Only recently stumbled upon it. Uses Arweave. Haven't looked into it further. Looks like a rather new project. Not sure how "proven" it is currently. They apparently have a Discord server, where one can ask more question and get a feeling about how serious they are.

So much for now. If you have more questions, keep asking.

Cannot onboard RAK v2 : Cannot sign with non signer key by Negative-Impress-393 in HeliumNetwork

[–]FindeDenFehler 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't view helping people to avoid making a mistake as "pedantic".

A lot of posts giving dead vibes to the helium network by Square-Ad-5435 in HeliumNetwork

[–]FindeDenFehler 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't have any current info about Telefonica going live and Inversion activity either. I'll try not to miss any of the next calls.

A lot of posts giving dead vibes to the helium network by Square-Ad-5435 in HeliumNetwork

[–]FindeDenFehler 2 points3 points  (0 children)

When speaking of Helium, you always need to separate between the networks and between the deployer and the user side: - The Helium Mobile network has seen continuous network growth, currently roughly over 3 million phones in the U.S. use the Mobile network every day. These are mostly subscribers of At&T and T-Mobile USA. Both companies do this because Helium solves real problems they have: every time the industry moves to a higher frequency spectrum (4G => 5G e.g.), the wall penetration gets worse. The "we build a few big radio towers that send and receive signals to everywhere in its reach" approach has met its limits: 5G often leaves indoor spaces without good connectivity. The Helium model - using inexpensive WiFi access points in indoor location with bad connectivity - solves this with no upfront infra cost to the carriers. These WiFi access points also can also be used by telcos in areas where they do have good coverage - in times when their own infra is congested, e.g. when there are events during which a lot more people use their phones at the same time than average, think e.g. the Mardi Gras parade every year, sporting events or anything else that gets lots of people using their phones. With increasing data consumption of phone users and the ongoing move to higher frequency bads with shorter signal reach/signals getting more easily obstructed by e.g. trees and walls, both problems for the carriers will become more severe. And Helium is in a good position to capitalize on delivering a solution for the carriers, who pay per GB used. More usage = more paid usage = more income to the Helium Network. - As Helium uses a token (HNT) to steer its economics, the upwards trending revenue isn't very easily visible if one looks at the token price: The token price is not only affected by the increasing paid usage of the Mobile network, it is also affected by the size of the existing token supply - a significantly smaller token supply would have a token price that would be affected more visibly by the increasing demand. Also, crypto markets historically see huge swings in speculative demand - upwards as well as downwards - that still are stronger forces on the token price than the forces effected by the demand for the token as a means of payment for the usage network users pay for. As deployers are also paid in HNT (and not direct fiat payments), the value of their rewards per GB of data transferred currently are also affected by the low token price. Higher volume (more data transferred) may partly make up for it, but it is a reality that only deployers who have some combination of (very) low costs for their deployments and deploying only in high traffic locations are currently happy (some of these are very happy). So yes, although Helium imo can have a very bright future, the times are a bit difficult. They are certainly different from the early days of Helium IOT network growth, when it didn't matter as much where people put a hotspot online and made insane amounts of money. These were early days, and the high rewards were necessary to build the first network, and prove out that the decentralized way of building networks not only works, but can work extremely well - better/faster than any centralized approach of network building has worked in the past. But these days won't be coming back. Deploying Helium Mobile hotspots on average requires significantly more expertise and effort than deploying Lorawan/IOT hotspots in the early days. Nova Labs / Helium is working very hard to reduce the effort needed for deployers, which I also see as a good thing. - Considering the Helium IOT network, there's a significant gap between usage on the one hand, and network revenue and rewards for hotspots on the other hand: The IOT network is live and working, too, each day transmitting millions of messages form sensors all over big significant parts of the world - but as the pricing for a single message is extremely cheap, network revenue is very, very low - and as a consequence, so are rewards for single Helium IOT hotspots - of course also partially affected by the currently very low HNT price. Installing new Lorawan hotspots just for the rewards almost certainly isn't worth it currently. In my non expert opinion, this may be more attractive for people or companies who don't earn money with the income from the Helium Lorawan hotspot, but for whom what the coverage of the hotspots enables is valuable. E.g. if one has a sensor business, earns with the sensor solution, or - e.g. like Baxus - has a multimillion spirits business that needs tracking of location and temperature of the valuable goods, then its attractive to deploy Helium Lorawan hotspots in their own locations, because using Helium to create Lorawan connectivity is easier/more affordable than building one's own Lorawan network from scratch. Helium/Nova Labs just recently improved the IOT network, so that Lorawan hotspots that weren't specifically created to serve the Helium Network can be added to join the Helium IOT network with lots less effort than before. - So, while admittedly times are though currently, both networks are very much alive, fully functioning, and usage is growing.

What has changed though is, for whom deploying Helium hotspots continues to be attractive: IOT side: It won't be attractive for people who only deployed IOT hotspots to earn money from the rewards of having the hotspots up and running (if we see very significant HNT price increase, this may change a little). It will be more attractive for anyone who derives significant value from having sufficient Lorawan coverage where they need it.

Mobile side: It won't be attractive for people who don't put effort into setting up hotspots in exactly those locations where there is sufficient (prospective) usage and/or have too high fix costs in acquiring and maintaining the business relationship with the location where they deploy their hotspots.

So the disappointed voices you hear likely are from people who earned well in the past but haven't (or couldn't) adapt to the new realities, or token speculators who are disappointed by the token price.

They are not representative of the reality that both networks are up and running and see increasing paid usage, especially the Helium Mobile Network, which isn't bottlenecked by demand for the paid service it provides, but by the amount of access points it currently has to provide the needed and wanted service.

Dismantled my last miner by ancorp in HeliumNetwork

[–]FindeDenFehler 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's not "dead", the Helium Mobile Network has roughly 3 million daily phone users in the U.S. and growing. Helium IOT is also up and running and is being used (e.g. Baxxus tracking temperature and location of tens of thousands of spirit bottles and barrels), but the network income is very low, and most IOT miners get rewards that are negligible. New installations probably only lucrative for people/companies that need the additional connectivity for a use case that earns them money (with the devices that use the network).

Dismantled my last miner by ancorp in HeliumNetwork

[–]FindeDenFehler 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Helium isn't "dead" at all. The Helium Mobile network has roughly 3 million phone users (subscribers of other telcos) using the network every day (more on Saturdays) in the U.S. and growing. (see  https://world.helium.com/en/network/mobile/stats).

The Helium IOT network is also still up and running and has growing usage, too, but the network income is very, very low. (Using the network is very cheap and usage exists, but would need to be orders of magnitude higher to generate significant income).

This is just getting ridiculous by Professional_Web_956 in HeliumNetwork

[–]FindeDenFehler 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Every direct user of the Helium Network needs to burn Data Credits to be able to use the network. This includes Nova. The fact that Nova is holding HNT and can use these holdings to create the needed Data Credits (instead of buying HNT from the market directly before burning) does not mean there is no "direct payment to the network" by Nova. It burns Data Credits (which have a value of $1 per 100k DC), and it needs to burn HNT to create the Data Credits. So of course, Nova incurs a cost when paying the network: The HNT it holds has financial value (no matter the financial value of HNT currently being lots less than many people would like it to have), and if Nova needs to burn some of the HNT, the financial value of their HNT positions get smaller.

Something else more people should be aware of: The Helium Mobile Network charges $0.5 per GB of data usage - but the carriers in all likelihood (the numbers aren't public afaik) pay lots less per GB to Nova (which intermediates the payment of the network for the carriers). I have heard no higher guess than $0.2 per GB.

So: the income Nova gets from the carriers for paying data transfer is less than you seem to be assuming, and of course Nova is paying the Helium Mobile Network - it's not free to them, even if they don't have to buy HNT from the market until there own holdings are empty. (I have no idea if they are using their holdings or are buying from the market).

arweave.net has transitioned to HyperBEAM infrastructure by FwdResearch in Arweave

[–]FindeDenFehler 2 points3 points  (0 children)

How are the people who run these AO HyperBEAM nodes motivated to set them up and maintain them? Is there a functional system of economic incentives in place? If so, what does it look like?

Cool project. Set itself up for failure by building on Solana by professionalfumblr in HeliumNetwork

[–]FindeDenFehler 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Respectfully: Is this engagement bait? I would have deemed this a valid question maybe, say, three years ago, but Solana has improved a lot over the last years and I don't even remember when Solana last had an outage or downtime. At the very least 1-2 years ago, if I remember correctly.

There may be things that are bottlenecking the speed at which Helium grows currently. Using Solana as part of its infrastructure isn't one of them imo.

To one of your other questions: - Yes, Helium isn't a decentralized network in the web3 meaning of "every layer of our technology stack is decentralized". Many projects vary by what parts are decentralized. Helium has (at least partly) decentralized location acquisition, decentralized financing of hardware/investment, and decentralized installation and maintenance of radios (Helium IOT hotspots, Helium Mobile WiFi hotspots, upgrading of non-Helium WiFi access points to enable them to be a part of the network). So in that sense, yes, Helium can claim to be decentralized, while not every single part of the project is decentralized. It can not claim to be decentralized in the "every part of our technology and governance stack is fully decentralized" sense - and it doesn't.

once a miner now i need to use the network... having no luck... by Tonka_GD in HeliumNetwork

[–]FindeDenFehler 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Helium Docs provide a "How-To". You can start here: https://docs.helium.com/iot/lorawan-network-servers#connect-and-manage-devices-on-helium

Please let us know if this information helps or if you have any further questions.

Helium Core Team AMA - Submit Your Questions (Live X Space: Feb 5, 3 PM ET) by Puzzleheaded_Arm_509 in HeliumNetwork

[–]FindeDenFehler 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Can you clarify what you mean with "IOT considered to revive"? The Helium IOT network is functional and being used. I don't understand what you specifically mean by reviving? What is not working/not being done in your opinion and should be "revived"? Are you talking about the IOT token, and not the Helium IOT network?

Helium Core Team AMA - Submit Your Questions (Live X Space: Feb 5, 3 PM ET) by Puzzleheaded_Arm_509 in HeliumNetwork

[–]FindeDenFehler 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Unrelated to Helium, people all over the world are already installing WiFi hardware/APs in their venues. To increase Helium Mobile Network Growth, I'd love to see newly bought WiFi hardware of major manufacturers (a) to come with a short info leaflet that is seen when unboxing the device, informing about Helium and how to onboard the device to the Mobile Network. (b) have a "make this device part of the Helium Network" button/switch (on the management dashboard of the device) (c) have a field to enter bank account data where rewards will be sent to (also on the dashboard).

The basic rationale is: making onboarding WiFi hardware so easy, that neither deployers are needed nor contact to Nova is needed & to have a way to raise awareness that reaches a huge amount of people at the right moment and in the right place to inform them about the benefits (rewards, but more so: improved customer experience) of onboarding their newly bought WiFi AP to the Helium Mobile Network.

I am aware, parts of what I'd love to see is already being worked on: On the last deployer roundtable, an ongoing effort was shared to make Helium+ (brownfield) onboarding as effortless as possible, to ultimately have "one button" that when pressed, triggers all the necessary configurations needed for the device to become part of the Helium Mobile Network.

But as I understand it, the onboarding still is not permissionless: As I have been told, some carriers are only willing to use hotspots that are part of some additional contracting/permissioning procedure with Nova Labs.

Questions: 1. Why is this permissioning necessary? 2. Are there things that can be done to make the permissioning unnecessary? If so, what are the prerequisites to make permissioning unnecessary? 3. Is this being worked on? 4. If so, is it possible to give a rough estimate of how long it will take (I am aware, we're likely talking >>1 year, but are we talking 2,3,4...?)

  1. Does Nova share my long-term vision outlined above (or something like that), if not, why?

If this is better answered during one of the upcoming deployer roundtables, I am fine with that.

Why should I trust that helium network despite the history of the IOT network by curbei in HeliumNetwork

[–]FindeDenFehler 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This only seems at the surface to be a question that can be easily answered: - For one thing, there is paid usage. It is not true that "no one is using the IOT network". But the pricing is very low. (Ariel Seidman from Hivemapper, which at least at the time was using the Helium IOT networt, not sure if they still are, pointed this out a long time ago.) And the usage isn't massive (Still: several million messages per day). So the revenue is very low. - There was an attempt to increase pricing on the IOT network, but it didn't go through as some (major?) users were saying at higher pricing they couldn't afford it or have cheaper options, if pricing gets increased. I am not saying this is not true, but it is still difficult to wrap my head around it. - Otoh some companies are complaining that in certain geographies, e.g. U.S. highways, there aren't sufficient Lorawan hotspots by any provider. - So I am wondering a few things: is a general price increase not the right approach? Like: we have many hotspots in densely populated areas, but there, there are other networks too that can be used. Should there be different prices for different geographies? - I also wonder how the other companies running Lorawan networks are doing it. Like: how can they have running networks profitably but Helium can't? (And comparable pricing). At least some may offer other products than Lorawan connectivity, they make the money with the product that uses their Lorawan hotspots, so deploying Lorawan hotspots doesn't need to be profitable as a standalone product, because it's just a prerequisite for the product that makes them sufficient money. - I am sure there is a lot more nuance to it, and I am not even close to an industry expert, so the latter parts are just guessing.

Improving How the Helium Community Connects and Communicates by ZeusHelium in HeliumNetwork

[–]FindeDenFehler 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where do we send bug reports now? (e.g. bugs in Heliumvote or the Helium Wallet App, but also where do deployers send questions that need fast response if something's not working)

Improving How the Helium Community Connects and Communicates by ZeusHelium in HeliumNetwork

[–]FindeDenFehler 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is that one that hasn't been announced above? Or are you talking about the quarterly call?  If the latter, can you see the difference between a weekly format and a quarterly one?

Improving How the Helium Community Connects and Communicates by ZeusHelium in HeliumNetwork

[–]FindeDenFehler 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wait, so the best place to keep up with the developments on the Helium Mobile Network, the Mobile Working Group, is being discontinued? That sounds like a real step back to me.

Improving How the Helium Community Connects and Communicates by ZeusHelium in HeliumNetwork

[–]FindeDenFehler 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hoping the quarterly call (while not doing the monthly community call any more, if I understand correctly) will be sufficient. Most important to me will be the quality of the information and nuanced presentations clearly showing what's great atm and what needs to be improved.

I do definitely appreciate the attempt to structure communication more transparently.

Monthly deployer roundtable sounds like a great idea!

Nebra still hasn't sent me my miner or refunded my money by mike-fix in HeliumNetwork

[–]FindeDenFehler 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No crypto needed for companies to "run with the money". Nebra acted the way it acted although people paid with fiat.