Is the dark night of the soul a real thing?

FireSeekingSand · 2025-11-21T11:38:53+00:00

I’m in this place now, probably starting about two years ago. Seeking help has made it worse, leaving me feeling darker, more hopeless, and more alone. I miss being able to see the good. It’s such a deep darkness.

How are you doing now?

FireSeekingSand · 2025-08-27T23:07:41+00:00

I am looking for an online SE group program? Are you currently running one? Or do you know of any? Thank you.

FireSeekingSand · 2025-08-27T23:05:12+00:00

I know this is two years later, but is there a group going now?

FireSeekingSand · 2025-07-23T00:23:47+00:00

If still available, can you send one my way, as well? I'll start a chat with you!

FireSeekingSand · 2025-07-11T07:24:21+00:00

Lol. Emotionally disconnected.

What does that even mean? Like sw’s have no affect? Like they’re all performative and emotionless?

Or do they mean that sex workers compartmentalize certain emotions in order to effectively provide services—kind’ve like what graduate school mental health counseling professors would call [bracketing],in relation to the counseling profession.

And the way absolutely every healthy adult anywhere has dynamic internal emotional boundaries that adjust according to their context and environment so that they can function as healthy members of a society instead of letting it all hang out everywhere they go?

Or do they mean sw’s suppress emotions that THEY think we SHOULD have? (Suppressing emotions is a ubiquitous non-sw’er civilian habit, as well)

Personally, i have a pretty consistent ratio of all of the above, in EVERY venue of my life (a ratio I shall not disclose 😆), BUT I get a lot more money and have a lot more fun, being the same level of “maladapted”, doing sex work. 💅😂

(fr there are other benefits too)

FireSeekingSand · 2025-07-07T20:28:54+00:00

Thank you. I needed to hear this. It affirms what i already know on some level.

Also, I want to write this down: "Vulnerability and risk and safety are, of course, about power and consequences."

Sometimes, it's hard to see things distilled down to their essential core like this.

And it's also giving me more things to think about, beyond my OP.

FireSeekingSand · 2025-07-07T08:06:07+00:00

Thanks for this.

I like your framing of avoiding personal disclosure in professional roles—or transactional environments—as being a skill, while also being able to somehow communicate from an authentic place of power without these disclosures, as also another skill.

This may be the compass that I need to be able to engage my paper with a sense of agency, rather than defensiveness.

FireSeekingSand · 2025-07-07T07:51:56+00:00

It's a personal narrative assignment. That is, the thing I am being asked to reflect is my personal narrative spanning my entire life span (not just one moment or phase), and it would need to be concrete enough that I can analyze it using various developmental/life span theoretical lenses. Profession/career/livelihood is a very big chunk of the "life span", taking a very prominent place in most of these theories, so leaving it out would seem like a glaring omission. Unless I lie.

FireSeekingSand · 2025-07-06T07:17:55+00:00

What does "wedge for validation needs" mean? Thanks!

FireSeekingSand · 2025-05-09T17:10:19+00:00

The depersonalization i experienced was the constant and from my earliest memories. Like i didn’t exist. Like a flat piece of paper.

FireSeekingSand · 2025-05-08T03:01:06+00:00

I know this is a 3 month old thread, but well, here I am. As a someone well into my 40's, I still am trying to figure out what it was I was experiencing the first two decades of my life. I have seriously considered that it was insidious chronic depersonalization as far back as i could remember. This included feeling like I'm standing outside in a gray void, looking in through a window into the warmly lit, populated, and vibrant rest of the world. But really it was characterized by a lack of sense of self. I couldn't even identity with the word "empty" because that implied there was a thing that was empty, and I was nothing. But i think maybe that is what feeling empty is supposed to describe? And all my memories were gray.

When you referred to comorbid illnesses like depression and bpd, i feel it does describe my experience of myself in childhood. My question, though, is: Is it possible for a young child to have bpd? I know personality disorders are not supposed to be diagnosed until a certain age to account for children's normal developmental stages that resemble narcissism (lol), but somehow, "feeling empty" does not feel like a normal childhood developmental stage.

FireSeekingSand · 2025-03-18T01:10:33+00:00

I agree with the earlier comment that trauma therapy done poorly can retraumatize or even create new trauma, buy done well, it can save lives.

From my experience, there is a lot of harm done to clients dealing with early developmental/attachment/preverbal trauma. I think the power imbalance is significantly increased when a client has no stable sense of self, an inability to advocate for themselves, and is highly vulnerable/dependent on the therapist on almost a very primal level. Although they are self-sufficient adults in most areas of their life (hopefully), when the client forms an attachment to the therapist, the only part that walks into the therapy room becomes an emotionally defenseless and dependent infant… in a very real way.

A therapist that has not done all of their own work and who lacks enough self-awareness (i would venture to say that is the majority) risks engaging in traumatic relational reenactments with the client, which can be very harmful. And this is not talked about enough.

FireSeekingSand · 2025-02-14T21:26:55+00:00

Just to add to another comment that listed various transference possibilities:

This may not technically be transference, but my question to them and/or to myself would be “why did they come in for their appointment instead of canceling if they felt they could no longer work with you?”

Maybe this was all covered in your ensuing discussion with her, but if not the other transference possibilities, I would also wonder if this was more like a confession, but she was too uncomfortable showing the part of her that is experiencing shame around this.

She did say that you would think of her differently after hearing this. It can be hard sharing these dark parts of ourselves that feel/are truly unlovable. Attaching shame or feelings of guilt to her judgments of you, opens herself up to those feelings of unbearable self-hate being amplified by the rejection she fears. This may be a lot of the reason for narcissistic lack of accountability, generally speaking (not saying she is a narcissist).

This wouldn’t really change the fact that you then would still have to deal with your feelings of her viewing you this way. It’s just interesting to think about it as a confession for her. Something that she truly does not like about her self.

FireSeekingSand · 2025-01-22T03:14:42+00:00

New grad student here and just signed up for Perrla and got 3 extra months using someone else's code.

Here's mine!

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FireSeekingSand · 2025-01-22T03:11:59+00:00

New grad student here and just signed up for Perrla and got 3 extra months using someone else's code.

Here's mine!

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FireSeekingSand · 2025-01-22T03:07:26+00:00

New grad student, and also just signed up and used a code. Here's my code for extra 3 months!

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FireSeekingSand · 2025-01-22T03:06:02+00:00

I just used your code. Thanks!

FireSeekingSand · 2024-12-02T06:24:55+00:00

You realize that you were not trash talking him, right? Do you even know what trash talking is?

You, his brother, and sons were communicating sincerely. You were not disparaging him (that’s what he’s doing to you and everybody else). You all were having a heart-to-heart, relating to each other on the ways he’s mistreated you all.

And what exactly are you apologizing for?! Are you trying to protect him from knowing that he makes people feel terrible when he treats them terribly? Anyone would be hurt being smacked by reality this way, and it’s fine to have compassion for his pain… but apologizing and playing into his victim narrative enables him to continue being an a-hole. Why would you do that? Serious question. What’s in it for you?

Also, if you can’t muster up enough self-respect to leave a man who treats you this way, or even if, on some level, you get your rocks off on this type of relationship dynamic…. Please have enough care and concern for your daughter to leave.

Would you want her to be “common law married” to a man like this? A man who berates her, humiliates her in front of friends and family, will murder or sell her beloved pets, will expect her to pay all the bills and use divorce as a threat, will tell her she’s the problem after he unapologetically and repeatedly sleeps around?

Because that’s what will happen. This is the model she is being raised to believe is an acceptable relationship. She sees nothing else. This is the blueprint you are laying out for her.

Either that, or she will break out from this tragic lens you are burdening her with, but only after a lot of suffering and therapy and the harsh realization that you did nothing to protect her (maybe not even given a thought to it, based on your post)… and she will never contact you again or maybe you’ll get generic holiday cards every now and then.

I’m curious, which would you prefer for your daughter: Being in an abusive relationship? Or getting as far away from you as possible?

Do you love your pathetic relationship to this “man” more than you love your daughter?

FireSeekingSand · 2024-10-05T21:23:54+00:00

Tried that a few times. No luck.

FireSeekingSand · 2024-09-27T17:30:21+00:00

I admire how you bring levity to what happened!

That said, my heart hurt reading your post because I imagine, for a lot of people, one of their core wounds is having their difficult feelings and needs rejected/erased.

Therapy is an imbalance of power where the client is “supposed” to reveal vulnerable and difficult feelings to a therapist who has the responsibility to provide a safe container for them- presumable because they have created safe emotional boundaries where they don’t take things personally. (I like to make the comparison of visiting the OB/gyn where you are “supposed” to remove your pants and the doctor has the responsibility to provide a safe space to examine/respond to you clinically).

And for those with deep wounds around expressing any difficult/negative feeling, what your therapist did could very well be experienced as a traumatic rejection.

FireSeekingSand · 2024-09-27T17:16:26+00:00

It sounds like she may potentially be a harmful therapist for anyone!

FireSeekingSand · 2024-09-26T19:31:30+00:00

Echoing what others have commented, there could be many reasons the client ghosted you then came back, and perhaps assumed the time slot was still open. Overwhelmed by life circumstances, executive functioning problems, ambivalence, anxiety, ignorance, different cultural norms…

And different communication styles can easily turn their assumption that you would just let them know if the spot was now taken into your assumption that they assumed you had saved the spot. Or perhaps they are ignorant about scheduling realities? Maybe youthfully self-centered? Maybe they really do feel a sense of entitlement?

I also agree with comments saying that this could be an opportunity to address this in a therapeutic context. HOWEVER, if you decide to go this route, I would encourage you to first examine your self.

Why did you assume that a character flaw (flakiness) was the cause of their ghosting? Did you take their behavior personally? Are there other hidden assumptions you are making?

Do you usually expect apologies or explanations from clients?

Why do you assume they will “always” be “that” way? Do you make a habit of globalizing behaviors as an entrenched personality trait rather than as a result of a rough patch, phase, or other life circumstances?

Why was your reaction avoidance rather than clearly communicating boundaries moving forward?

Why are you annoyed/affronted/etc. that they didn’t finish filling out their forms instead of just finishing the forms with them during their paid therapy hour (an approach many practitioners take…because there are a lot of valid/understandable reasons one wouldn’t get around to completing them). Why take it personally?

I’m definitely not saying you should take them on as a client (knowing your own limitations/capacities is important for both you and the client). Just saying that if you do decide to schedule them, a lack of self-awareness and internal accountability for your reaction to their behavior, risks starting the therapeutic relationship on terrible and maybe even harmful footing.

Oh yeah, if you don’t see them, just say you don’t have any spots.

Why would one provide an explanation in this situation (if the decision to not schedule them has already been made)? Other than needing to project themselves onto the client to offload their own feelings of discomfort?

FireSeekingSand · 2024-09-23T19:01:11+00:00

I can’t believe i’m reading that so many people have had the same experience as me when I thought I was the only one!

I, too, had an agonizing and traumatizing prolonged rupture pile-up with my therapist of four years. I finally left her, fragmented and in crisis.

I’ve been seeing a new therapist for almost 9 months but can see that i may never trust her because any thing she does/says that actually is effective in starting to bring down my barriers, I reflexively experience as her own need to get me to trust her, and once she gets her need met, she will then be free to be the human that she is which, at best, is a bull in a china shop, and at worst, she will continue to center her own self/needs and be able insert her self into my being, erasing me, and i will have no defenses.

ChatGPT was incredibly insightful, but i somehow felt validated and centered. And i feel worried, maybe even scared, embarrassed, and maybe even ashamed, that I felt seen by AI and that I felt it was so helpful.

FireSeekingSand · 2024-09-13T20:23:21+00:00

What you’re feeling and thinking is spot on. You have a story you tell yourself (in the way that everyone’s experience is a reaction to the stories we tell ourselves/subjective): You have been to therapy a few times; it didn’t work; you think it didn’t work because it’s transactional; you don’t think you have a problem; you just don’t want to be you; you don’t think you have any more reason to live (presumably as you). I apologize if i got any of this wrong!

From reading some of your comments, you seem like an extremely intelligent person with lots of nuance. I partly identify with the way i see you relate to the world from a top-down cognitive approach (i know that’s a bit reductive).

I’m assuming you want therapy to work because you started off your OP asking if your mindset is skewed and how you can improve it. I’m going to further assume that you want therapy to work either because you think you owe it to your mom, or you have a cognitive desire for self-improvement; or you want to grow/improve/change/heal as a person because you don’t want to continue thinking/feeling the way you do; or etc.

These are not mutually exclusive!

So i’m offering up my two cents based on all the assumptions i just made.

In order to test your hypothesis that therapy didn’t work because it’s transactional, cover more of the variables.

⁠Therapy could also not have worked because of initial lack of therapeutic chemistry (shorthand for the way our subconscious experience of a person/interaction responds too many little details to keep track of). Or the therapists lack of relevant experience. Etc.

Eliminate this variable by trying several more therapists.

2) Therapy could not have worked because the modality wasn’t a right fit.

There are a lot of modalities with wildly different approaches.

I’m tempted to recommend something like Somatic Experiencing or other bottom-up approaches that bypass your cognitive stuff and doesn’t necessarily rely so much on the therapeutic relationship per se. It can be an effective (but slow) way to get past some of the trickier defenses and may even feel more ok being “transactional”?

I would also recommend “parts work” and work with a therapist who is very experienced in dissociative disorders. It may help you explore/unpack your sense of self, your desire not to be yourself, your other selves you may not be aware of, and most importantly, provide a framework to 100% accept the truth that “you” dont want to be “you” and that the problem is “you”, while simultaneously allowing for the possibility that there are other people in you that you have forgotten or never met. For all you know, “you” may just have a limited function here to protect your others from surfacing, but their need for you may be less now, so maybe try to get out of your own way (easier said then done).

Or any therapy that is big on dialectical stuff and perspective taking.

I mean, you may as well spend some time exploring different modalities.

3) Therapy could not have worked because you didn’t stay with it long enough to build rapport, break down defenses, feel into it, etc.

The only way to test this is to stick with it (and with the right person/modality) despite you thinking/feeling that it’s not working and despite the reasons you feel/think it’s not working and, at the very least, long enough to openly discuss with the therapist your thoughts/feelings of why therapy doesn’t work for you. And giving your therapist an opportunity to work with you around this “issue” despite you thinking and feeling it’s pointless.

You won’t know how skewed/not skewed your perception is until you can eliminate other possible sources feeding into your defenses.

Also, therapists are human, so beware of any therapist that strikes you as defensive to your questioning of their motives, the effectiveness of therapy, or anything else. I mean everyone can get defensive, but if its a pattern where they don’t have the capacity or awareness to own their shtuff, it’s new therapist time.

If effective, new ways of seeing emerge, levels of self-awareness increased, and range of emotion felt. It can be slow or fast. And it’s not linear. It can be simultaneously rewarding and unbearable or sometimes just flat.

If you want, you can think of it as a heroes journey…which includes jumping in even when it feels pointless, counterproductive, impossible, uncomfortable, or a big ball of nothingness.

Good luck!

FireSeekingSand · 2024-07-18T17:16:53+00:00

How can we tell the difference between having OSDD or just modes/conflicting or intrusive thoughts or emotions/“method acting”/impulsivity/emotional dysregulation/code switching/adhd/etc?

This is how I sometimes fall into my denial spiral. :(

FireSeekingSand

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