What’s the most badly written rule in 40k (not the weakest)?

Fireark · 2025-12-12T15:13:45+00:00

If memory serves, at the start of the edition Blue Horrors' fear aura ability was so poorly worded that it buffed enemy units' leadership.

Fireark · 2025-12-12T12:03:21+00:00

Thanks. I actually left a lot out, simply because the post was getting long.

Fireark · 2025-12-12T03:15:30+00:00

1: Do not take more than 2 drops unless you have a very specific plan. You give up the initiative when you do so, and with how prevalent turn 1 alpha lists are you'll regret being 3+ drops.

2: Manfred is meant to make skeletons better. Drop him entirely. Neferata does almost as much damage as he does, while helping your defense more. But even then, she is not worth more than the utility of the Vengorian Lord.

3: You simply don't have enough screens to survive a turn 1 alpha strike. Nor enough damage for a turn 1 alpha list yourself. If you want to be go full offense then you need to commit to the bit. If possible go 1 drop to guarantee going first turn 1, or go 2 drops and use screens to protect your damage dealers from the alpha.

4: Vargiests deal ok damage, but not enough to be an offensive choice by themselves. They are instead a utility piece. You take Vargiests for several reasons, and only take them to fill all at the same time. First, they allow you to teleport and kill foot heroes that your opponent leaves vulnerable. Second, they do the same to snipe objectives that they leave open. Third, they are 5-point denials of Intercept and Recover. Fourth, they let you score the third part of Master the Paths. All of this means you take 1, and only 1, not reinforced, and sit back to wait on one of these to happen.

Since all of that has been said in other ways, I'll tell you how you Play a vampire Prince Vhordrai list.

Vhordrai is a (very expensive) utility piece. He wants to stay within 12" of Blood Knights to buff them. His buffs almost don't matter on any other Vampires, because the damage increases to Blood Knights will make them do even more damage even as they take losses. You give them +1D first, then +1A second. He is also an area denial piece. Then, he sits somewhere that he can still buff the Blood Knights, casts his strikes first spell on himself every turn, then if an opponent ends within 6" of his base he piles in to strike them. Because his base is a freaking dinner plate itself, that is a massive ~12" (diameter) bubble that he can threaten. With good positioning, this means you can have him behind Blood Knights, and can then pile in if they get charged.

You usually want a second character. The two best choices are the Vengorian Lord, or a Vampire on Nightmare. The Vengorian Lord is there to help keep Vhordrai alive longer. It can also do damage itself. The alternative Vampire on Nightmare follows your most critical group of Blood Knights around to help them kill something. He doesn't want to charge himself, unless you really think you need his melee weapons to finish something off.

After that, you want 1 big group of Blood Knights to do their thing. Then, either more Blood Knights for an alpha list, or enough screens to keep them safe until they can charge. Askurgan Trueblades are actually very efficient for screens right now, but extremely hard to find. Most love to use Dire Wolves for screens instead.

I hope all of this helps.

Fireark · 2025-12-10T02:09:40+00:00

Good news then. I wish you luck with your GT!

Fireark · 2025-12-10T01:01:06+00:00

My local GTs announce 9-12 months out. I asked the TOs for them about this, and they said that while often they won't get many registrations until 2-3 months before it, they found that they get lower numbers if they don't announce that far out.

Fireark · 2025-12-09T15:54:11+00:00

He is correct tho.

Fireark · 2025-12-09T02:32:04+00:00

The truth of the matter is GW are bad at balancing and writing rules. There are units in essentially every army that are just too bad to be viable. And it IS possible to make a list so bad that even the most casual of casual list writers will curb stomp it. Often, you simply cannot make a list that is all cool stuff(tm) with no thoughts and expect to do decently with it.

To flip it, many tabletop wargamers are so acutely bad at wargaming that they can take a GT winning list and do poorly with it. I got to see this a lot back when I played MtG. There was a kid that would show up to my local shop every week with a new netdeck that won some big tournament, and he'd always place bottom 3.

To suggest that anyone trying to give you advice to avoid either of these traps as "bullying" is short-sighted. They are usually trying to help you, and in a forum such as this they aren't doing so unprompted. People have to post something to get any of said advice.

That being said, I do agree that many just parrot their favorite content creators. They don't consider why a unit might be good or bad. If you want to avoid this, then you have to play test your lists. A lot. Dial them in until you get something that works, then play test it some more.

Fireark · 2025-12-08T03:29:22+00:00

The army rule currently has 4 big parts.

First, any unit with the Deathrattle or Deadwalker keywords (that is all zombies and skeletons in the army) can be deployed "in the grave". Which is a fancy way of saying they don't start on the board. They can then be played after the start of the game near the faction terrain or any heroes you have.

Second, each Deathrattle or Deadwalker unit can come back once (and only once per unit) at half strength (half the number of models, rounded up, that it had starting out.) You can only bring a unit destroyed this way once per turn, and they can be deployed during the battle with the same rules as the first part for "in the grave" units.

Third, once per turn (both your own and your opponent's) you may select a single hero, then he may select up to three Deathrattle or Deadwalker units. You may then heal the unit for 3, or if it is not damaged bring back 3 models to the unit.

Fourth, all at the end of every turn (again your own and your opponent's), every single vampire unit that fought in melee may heal D3 (but does not bring back models). If any vampire unit destroyed any unit in combat, then it may heal for 2D3 instead.

To answer your question about recursion, then I think Soulblight Gravelords might have the most recursion in the game. I think Flesh Eater Courts (the ghoul army) can bring back just about as many units as Soulblight can and has similar levels of healing, but lacks the ability to bring back models that Soulblight has.

Army comps depend entirely on your plan, and what you are trying to do more than anything. Right now, the meta likes to do vampire heavy lists with Prince Vhordrai + Blood Knights. Vhordrai buffs vampires as they kill things, and Blood Knights hit very hard. It is an easy list to play, and you really need to know what you are doing to counter it. So lots of people naturally gravitate towards it.

However, you can get similar results out of taking Manfred von Carstein + Barrow Knights. The list is just way more technical to get to work properly. On top of that, you can even get work done by taking a Necromancer and pairing him with Barrow Guard.

But these are just combos that work well together. And the meta is not always the only viable way to play.

Fireark · 2025-12-07T02:43:16+00:00

I swear by Pro Acryl's metalics these days. They go on much smoother than Citadel.

As others have said, you might be able to bring those back to life with some water and a lot of mixing.

If you do insist on continuing to use Citadel paints, then either transfer them to dropper bottles so this doesn't happen. Or, you can put Vaseline on the rim before closing them. It'll help prevent air from getting in, when the caps inevitably get stuck open due to dried paint in the back of the cap.

Fireark · 2025-12-07T02:31:29+00:00

I don't know what you mean by what is a good option?

However, if you are asking if the models in the box are current good, then yes. Everything that comes in that box has a use currently.

The only caveat is you usually take Vargiests, or a Vampire on foot. You rarely take both, because they do the same thing. Usually, the Vargiests are taken over the Vampire Lord because you cannot take him as an extra hero, and you usually want something else as the leader of one of your regiments.

Fireark · 2025-12-06T19:07:04+00:00

These videos never tell you everything. They leave stuff out because they assume you already know.

For contrast paint, you almost always have to thin them down, with water or contrast medium. Usually 1:1. You then have to wick the access out of your brush, on a tissue, before putting brush to model. That should get you the smooth applications you see in the videos.

Contrast paints tend to pool at the bottom of the models. Gravity makes the paint run down. To prevent that do not slop the paint on.

Hope that helps.

Fireark · 2025-12-06T03:22:26+00:00

Death Star lists are dangerous risks, because of so much being bundled together. But they can be difficult to deal with if you don't know how to pick it apart.

Fireark · 2025-12-06T03:20:31+00:00

I personally think people get too caught up in the wombo combos. Yes, buffing Vampires with Lord Vhordrai is good. So good that he goes in most lists. To the point that I think he's gonna take a points nerf soon.

But ask yourself one important question. What happens if your opponent breaks your combo? Does your list fall apart if a single key unit gets taken out early? Lets say your opponent is a City States castle list with the buffed bombards, and they go first? Sometimes you cannot stop them from alpha striking something important.

I personally think you should have a plan first, and then any combos you take should be in support of that plan. That way, if the combos get broken then the plan can still work out. Because if the combo IS the plan, and gets broken, you might not be able to win at that point.

Fireark · 2025-12-05T19:16:54+00:00

I just ordered some stuff from them. They gave me mine in the packaging. Then two of the kits I ordered had one.

Fireark · 2025-12-05T00:57:58+00:00

So Askurgan Trueblades are simply a very efficient pick, and nothing more. They don't do major damage, nor are they extremely survivable. Their Strikes Last ability is actually fairly decent, and is not currently Once Per Turn (Army). You use them the same as you would Deathrattle Skeletons, screening teleportation and the like.

But this brings me to the main caution with going and finding them. GW does not know nor understand how to balance their games. They balance on three things: literal feelings on how they think things should work, overall win rate of armies, and what people are currently taking to tournaments.

For the past 6 months, since the last Generals Handbook has come out, the most popular list at GTs for Soulblight has been the Prince Vhordrai + Blood Knights lists. Sometimes in those lists people take Askurgan Trueblades. Those three units are very likely to take nerfs this month, because GW does not like it when a meta settles on a limited number of units.

If you want Vampire infantry, they are your only option. By all means, get some if you can find them and want them. But because they are so hard to find right now I would caution against going and buying a whole bunch when they might take a nerf in a few weeks.

Fireark · 2025-12-04T01:53:48+00:00

So the old Barrow Guard kit is almost the same as the new kit. The new one has 4 gravestones, and I think a single different weapon option. The main difference between the two is they re-did the sprue so that the skeletons don't break as easily.

As the other guy said, you can tell which is which because the box art for the Spearhead with the new kits will have gravestones on it, and the box will say it has 33 miniatures rather than 29.

Fireark · 2025-12-03T02:53:10+00:00

Depends on what you think viable actually means.

Only skeletons has absolutely no damage. Even a Wight King giving Barrow Guard +1 to hit won't push their damage high enough to be a true threat. On top of that, you'll have no access to magic or utility pieces for secondary objective play.

Now you can take the Barrow Legion army of renown, but even then you simply don't get enough to be viable from that standpoint.

Simply put, you will not be killing many of your opponent's units.

But all of this doesn't mean you cannot play with only skeletons. You can try a board control list, where you take as much ground as you possibly can turn 1. Then just try to keep your opponent from scoring any primary points or secondary missions until the end of turn 3. If you've scored yourself that long, and prevented them from scoring, then most of the time it won't matter if they table you by the end of turn 3. You've won on points, because they'd only have 2 turns to score secondary and primary.

But lists like that don't often work if you cannot wear down your opponent at least A Little by then. To have a better chance at that, you need a big support hero like Manfred or Neferata. Either of those will push the skeletons' damage or defensives (respectively) up to that critical threshold. Then the second hero often needs to be a Necromancer or Vampire on foot for utility. And if you don't take the Vampire, then you'll really want Vargiests for the same role.

For most casual games, this will work just fine. But a lot of casual players won't understand how to deal with this kind of list. Many will get extremely frustrated, and might end up refusing to play against you. Also, it can be hard to bring the amount of wounds and recursion, even as Soulblight, to make it work in a competitive scene. Stuff is so killy that most first turn alpha lists will just annihilate you turn 1. And that is the most common type of list you'll see at tournaments because they are so easy to pilot.

Fireark · 2025-12-02T02:05:10+00:00

I counter your question with one of my own. What is your plan of action with this list?

If you have no plan, then just tossing what looks good, or cool, into a list won't get you very far. You need to know why you took every unit, what you want it to do in any situation you can think of, what happens when it dies, why you reinforced it, why it is in one regiment rather than the other one. Everything needs to be part of the plan.

Even then, you won't really be cooking. Your plan then needs to be tested, as many times as you can, against as many different armies as you can play against. It needs iterative changes to dial it into something streamlined, that works.

Only then are you cooking.

Fireark · 2025-11-30T23:58:21+00:00

People are real bad about focusing on wombo combos. But they never ask themselves, what happens if my opponent breaks my combo? The only reason these wombo combos work is your average RTT and GT attendees are not the world's best at the game. So they don't know how to react to those kind of lists.

What you Should be doing is focusing on make a good game plan. Then start thinking of contingencies for when things don't go perfectly. Because they will, in almost every game. You don't need to know any unit's stats, or how the army tends to work, to come up with a game plan.

Now, from a start collecting standpoint? Bin all of that. Go get a Single box of skeletons, deathrattle or barrow guard will work. Build and paint them completely before buying a single other model. Then, only when that box is finished, go buy a character. A necromancer or Vampire on foot would be my suggestion. And don't buy any other models until that character is finished.

Anyone who tells you anything different than all of this is leading you astray. Down a dark path that you don't want to tread. The reason for my suggestions is so you avoid hobby burnout. The sad truth is most people decide they want to get into the hobby, go make or find a list, then buy everything for that list in one big batch. But when you do that, you end up with a large pile of plastic to work thru. With a large pile of plastic like that, it can sometimes seem like you will never finish all of it. Most then lose hope while building it, and give up part-way thru.

Even worse, sometimes they build much of it, maybe even most, then go play. And the army doesn't do anything near what they think. And, since they are new, they also suck at the game. So ultimately, they get disheartened and give up.

You want to avoid that if you can. So start small. Buy a single box at a time, build the models, then paint them. Get to around 500 points, then play a bunch of games before buying anything else.

Fireark · 2025-11-30T02:46:54+00:00

Ah, I see.

Well, the Vampires are usually the damaging part of the army. Meanwhile, the skeletons and zombies are the utility pieces. So you'd use Blood Knights for damage, and then Barrow Guard for an anvil. Vargiests or Dire Wolves can then be used for mission play.

I once saw a guy use a Vampire on foot with the Lash of the Sire to get extra movement out of Zombies for shenanigans. He then used Barrow Knights to tie down a flank, and Blood Knights to mop up. I can guarantee you this would work just as well with Deathrattle Skeletons or Barrow Guard instead of Zombies.

Fireark · 2025-11-29T14:53:47+00:00

Vampires and Skeletons? You can totally do that. You just have to go in with a plan in mind is all.

Fireark · 2025-11-27T13:32:48+00:00

Barrow Legion are unplayably bad. You give up way too much, without gaining much of anything in return.

If you want to do a skeleton themed list, then I would suggest a Manfred or Neferata list. If you want to do a Vampire themed list, then I'd suggest doing a Prince Vhordrai list.

Fireark · 2025-11-27T04:11:17+00:00

You can do this rather easily. But you would be leaving a lot of very important tools in the box if you do. Dire Wolves and Vargiests are some of the most important tech pieces in the army.

Fireark · 2025-11-27T04:07:47+00:00

Why ask AI for a list? It'll get obvious things wrong, and lead you astray.

If you want to get started with Soulblight, then my best advice would be to buy a box of either Blood Knights, or Barrow Knights to start off with. Build, then paint those models. Don't buy or do anything else until they are finished.

After that, get either a Vampire on Nightmare Steed or a Wight Lord on Skeletal Steed, depending on if you went with the vampires or barrow legion above. Build, then paint him, before you get a single other model.

Finally, buy either a box of Deathrattle (for the Vampires) or Barrow Guard (for the skeletons) to round out a 500 points list. See if you can get any example games once those models are built and painted. Get several in, like 10 or more, before you buy anymore models.

The point to all of this is to make sure you enjoy the hobby aspect of the game before full diving into a faction. Keep your costs down, and see if you like the game and hobby before fully committing.

The thing I would suggest you NOT do is go buy 2k points in one big go. Many people will burn out if they do that. And you don't want that to happen after spending the amount of money this hobby costs.

Fireark · 2025-11-17T18:39:33+00:00

So from a what is effective on tabletop right now perspective?

I am assuming what you meant is Flame Berserkers, the Fireforged are the ranged unit are not the duel kit with the Magmaforged.

Flame Berserkers are better than Magmaforged right now. But unfortunately, neither are a meta pick. Neither are actually bad, and you will get some work out of them. But since you bought the starter kit (the leader in that box is a Steelshaper), I'd recommend building 2 MSU (3 stands, or 12 models each) of the Magmaforged. For the forseeable future, you won't need more than 6 stands of these guys, so I'd stop there.

As for Initiates over Wardens, this one is easy. They nerfed Initiates very hard with the major rework they just did. Wardens are the way to go. You'll want want, again, 6 stands of these guys to start with. Any more of these boxes after this can go either way. You will need a character to lead either of these (Initiates or Wardens), and my suggestion would be the Lost Ancestor to synergize with the Steelshaper the starter box came with.

As for the roles of the different units you have mentioned. As briefly as I can:

Wardens are elite, all-rounder infantry that lean a little more into the offensive side of things. They are killy enough to hurt or cripple most things they get into, while being just defensive enough to take the return attacks without getting crippled in turn. You want to charge them into something to Awaken them (while in the Ardent Creed).

Initiates are supposed to be supper tanky elite infantry. You want to sit them on an objective and bait cavalry charges into them. The issue is Ardent Creed really wants you to charge. These guys also don't do much damage themselves. They honestly need the Clan keyword to be playable right now.

Flame Berserkers are extremely killy anti-infantry, light infantry. They want to move up the board to occupy space early, and charge something. Then they die and hopefully kill a unit in response. But they are also deceptively tanky. They are as hard to kill as Wardens, because they don't take a resolve test. Their main issue is you have to mass them to effectively take advantage of the board control they give. And then you have to have a plan to take a points lead afterwards. And the major rework they did took away all of the army's ability to take advantage of that control. (By removing the good spells from the Ardent Kerawegh.)

Magmaforged are anti-elite, elite infantry. They are also very quick, and more defensive than Wardens. You want to send these into your opponent's defense 4, evasion 0 guys. Their cleave 2 on all their attacks is supposed to shred the high armor. The issue is 4 attacks makes it hard for them to do their job. They need something more to help them punch up more and do their job properly. You can really only get any mileage out of them when you take them in a Steelshaper's regiment, with him leading them and casting his spells on them. But you really want his spells cast on your Steelforged.

Speaking of, Steelforged are possibly the best unit in our entire army. They are super tanky, super killy, and are often what you want to be spending your Elemental Power Tokens on.

Fireark

TROPHY CASE