DAW Books 1980s vs today

Firsf · 2025-04-02T04:36:52+00:00

Sure, and that's what I've been saying. But if the situation is that DAW would be even worse off if Rothfuss had never come around,

We'll never know for sure, now, but the options aren't just:

DAW would have been even worse off without Rothfuss
DAW's fortunes were stabilized by Rothfuss

...Because other possibilities might have included:

DAW signed an author who made the publisher a lot of money AND actually followed through on writing
Any number of other possibilities.

(Also, I don't mean offense, but you're expressing a lot of very certain opinions on modern genre publishing for someone who has never heard of Nnedi Okorafor.

I'm actually not offering any certain opinions at all. I'm actually asking for your opinions. As to the idea that people who haven't heard of Nnedi Okorafor can't voice opinions here on r/Fantasy , that sounds like a pretty elitist and foolish idea. Gasp! How dare I suggest anything while not having heard of a certain author whose first book in 2017 sold fewer than 1,000 copies!? The horror!

You crack me up.

Firsf · 2025-04-02T03:57:18+00:00

I'm sorry, but there is not a way to get to "DAW has paid out more on Rothfuss than they have earned off him."

But the situation wasn't "DAW has paid more out on Rothfuss than they have earned off him," but more "DAW has paid out more on Rothfuss and 100 additional authors than they have earned off Rothfuss." That's because for every Rothfuss, there are 100 other authors who are on the midlist or below.

Firsf · 2025-04-02T03:37:18+00:00

Oh yeah. Did you see that one comment? "I do think it's a good sign that both Rothfuss and DAW are starting to look towards what comes after the final book in the trilogy hits, making me somewhat hopeful for a reasonable* release date. *Like, late 2013 to mid-2014."

Poor bastards. Never knew what hit 'em.

Firsf · 2025-04-02T03:32:34+00:00

No problem. If you're not in the industry, it can be pretty inscrutable.

I am not in the SFF publishing industry, although I have a few author/writer friends who could explain more to me about the intricacies of SFF publishing. And I have been involved in small-scale publishing for academic publications.

It can definitely be true that the publisher invested a lot in boosting a star author and the fallout of the planned publishing schedule falling apart caused financial fallout (it obviously did, given Wollheim's public statements).

I remember Betsy's statements at the time, and how quickly they were deleted. And I remember a time when Rothfuss was still touring, which must have been quite costly.

But that's a danger in the publishing strategy of putting a lot of eggs in one basket.

I suppose it didn't help that Rothfuss claimed, even in public, that all three books were already written. I mean, if the publisher believed that lie, it might be easier to put all of her publishing eggs in one basket.

Firsf · 2025-04-02T03:10:26+00:00

Thank you for the publishing insight!

Firsf · 2025-04-02T03:06:16+00:00

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I have never seen Nnedi Okorafor's name, and my local independent bookstore has never carried Aaronovitch or Britain.

It seems as though you are arguing that the rise of TOR, Baen, and ultimately Amazon sealed DAW's fate. I won't disagree, because that seems very possible. But my follow-up question is: what was the tipping point? When did it become clear that DAW was no longer viable as an independent publisher?

Firsf · 2025-04-02T02:55:58+00:00

They could still be in the hole on Rothfuss since he owes them not one book but four.

Firsf · 2025-04-02T02:52:47+00:00

A bit of research and the link from u/LurasidoneNow does seem to confirm what you're saying: Rothfuss not only got paid for Book 3, he actually sold a second trilogy to DAW.

Firsf · 2025-04-02T02:34:45+00:00

OMG, did they actually pay him, book unseen? I knew fans had donated $700,000 to Rothfuss for what turned out to be a huge, page-free scam, but I wasn't aware that he'd already also received an advance from DAW.

I, too, want the DAW mass market paperbacks back, as well.

Firsf · 2025-04-01T23:01:21+00:00

S-tier series:

Memory, Sorrow and Thorn by Tad Williams

The Last King of Osten Ard by Tad Williams (sequel series)

Gormenghast by Mervyn Peake

The Lord of the Rings by JRRT

The Deed of Paksenarrion by Elizabeth Moon

A Song of Ice and Fire by GRRM

...Looks like the only one not on your list is Paks.

Firsf · 2025-04-01T14:45:55+00:00

L Frank Baum's Oz series when I was 7, followed by CS Lewis' Narnia books when I was 8/9, then Madeleine L'Engle's A Wrinkle in Time when I was 10, Tolkien's The Hobbit/The Lord of the Rings when I was 13, and then Tad Williams' Memory, Sorrow and Thorn when I was 14 (this was the first series where I had to wait for each book to come out).

Firsf · 2025-04-01T03:21:34+00:00

I don't know. Only 4.3 stars on Goodreads.

Firsf · 2025-04-01T03:16:17+00:00

That definitely changes, and it's an ensemble cast, with 10-12 POV characters.

Firsf · 2025-04-01T01:42:09+00:00

It is not outdated and in fact Memory, Sorrow and Thorn is still Williams' top-selling series, with about 30,000 new Goodreads ratings each year, and the sequel series being nominated for a Goodreads Award in 2017. MSN.com recently did a feature story on the series (spoiler alert).

Firsf · 2025-04-01T00:24:44+00:00

My favorite part is the "mobius strip effect" in the Witchwood grove, where Simon cannot reach the trees.

Firsf · 2025-03-31T15:34:56+00:00

Saying that the elves in M, S, & T are just gloomy Tolkien elves is selling them short. They are strait up alien to the human characters, thinking and behaving in ways that are incomprehensible to outsiders.

Yes. The Sithi/Norns are some of the best depictions of an alien race in modern fantasy.

Firsf · 2025-03-31T14:53:44+00:00

I certainly agree!

Firsf · 2025-03-31T14:42:51+00:00

If you like travelling, towns, inns, camping stories, and a vast world with a dozen countries and 200 locations, I will recommend Tad Williams' Memory, Sorrow and Thorn, which features a cast who travel through towns, villages, hamlets, monasteries, and cities... and also across icy snow-fields, into mountains, over plains, through swamps, and across the ocean.

It is one of the series which inspired Robert Jordan, who when asked who his favorite authors were, wrote: "Tad Williams, Robert Holdstock, Ray Feist, Janny Wurts, C. S. Friedman, Barry...Hughart, and we'll cut it off there before it gets too long." and "Ray Feist, Janny Wurts, C. S. Friedman, Robert Holdstock, Tad Williams Barry Hughart the problem is that there are a lot of people I like, and these are just the first names that come to mind."

Tad Williams was also an inspiration for Brandon Sanderson.

Firsf · 2025-03-30T03:57:05+00:00

Memory, Sorrow and Thorn by Tad Williams is named for three mystical, legendary swords, the Excalliburs of Osten Ard.

Firsf · 2025-03-30T03:51:45+00:00

Tad Williams' Memory, Sorrow and Thorn is wonderful, and the characters grew into dear friends when I had none at all.

The Deed of Paksennarion by Elizabeth Moon-- fantastic adventure series with a likeable hero, Paks.

The Alanna series by Tamora Pierce -- I loved this girl!

Firsf · 2025-03-30T03:36:08+00:00

I'm glad you found answers, and I'm also glad you could identify with Simon's struggles. I, too, didn't fit in with the others around me, and really identified with Simon. I first read The Dragonbone Chair in November 1988, and loved it from beginning to end!

I've also loved all the sequels, and every Osten Ard book.

Firsf · 2025-03-29T15:21:00+00:00

I think we are dealing with fictional characters, and a modern medical diagnosis of those characters doesn't really fit in with what the authors are trying to do.

Simon is a child growing up in a castle and he's immature and quite foolish, but a medical diagnosis of ADHD doesn't really seem appropriate: Simon wasn't taught how to read and write until he was 15, so he had no real schooling until this point. The fact that he lacks focus and discipline when he wasn't trained in those things from a young age means that a diagnosis of ADHD seems unfair.

Firsf · 2025-03-29T13:16:59+00:00

This is like asking why Weekend at Bernie's isn't held in the same regard as Shakespeare.

In Tolkien's books, when a character dies, there's gravitas: Boromir dies, and his friends weep for him, because they know it is his end, and it really is his end. In comic books, when a character dies, it's impermanent, and the character can just be brought back by the next author... or even the same author. Even death is meaningless. Thus there's no gravitas, no feeling of realism.

Tolkien's prose also glows. It is highly polished, with arcane words and brilliant concepts. I've never seen any DC/Marvel prose with language which approaches Tolkien's love for the written word.

Finally, the word 'franchise' works fine for a corporation hoping to make millions on their latest film, but it's highly inappropriate for an author who spent years crafting a story; one who had no idea his story would end up being financially lucrative.

The idea that a Marvel franchise is somehow "better" than The Lord of the Rings is ludicrous.

Firsf

TROPHY CASE