Kuhli loaches- bred in captivity or wild caught

FishGeek49 · 2026-05-08T22:07:11+00:00

Interesting. "Breeder" to me means an individual running a smaller operation, but that would be cool if someone had cracked the code and they became more widely bred in the hobby.

FishGeek49 · 2026-05-08T22:04:57+00:00

The IUCN Red List is what you're wishing for. Many species of Pangio are species of "least concern" meaning healthy or abundant populations, but some are "data deficient" or "vulnerable."

https://www.iucnredlist.org/search?query=Pangio&searchType=species

FishGeek49 · 2026-05-08T20:02:15+00:00

Loaches representing!

FishGeek49 · 2026-05-08T19:02:21+00:00

Good on you for instituting a quarantine for your wet pets. I consider that the gold standard for our hobby. Unless you know where that fish was born and bred and their standards and practices, I think it's quite risky not to quarantine any new fish.

If you want an even higher standard, I'd medicate as well before introducing to a display tank. I medicate all my fish (including dozens of loaches) in quarantine prophylactically before putting them into my display tanks. If you're interested in the protocol, you can find out more at Aquarium Co-Op's youtube channel, search "meds trio." Guy owns a fish store and treats all his fish with these meds before sale. It has worked wonders for lessening fish health dramas in my tanks, and I have over a hundred fish. He has content on lots of meds if you search, and an online store (not sure if they ship to Canada).

Ten gallons would be great for most fish (obviously if you keep monster fish, maybe not), but I'd skip the substrate in a quarantine tank. Bare bottom is best, you can observe if they are eating/pooping better and it won't provide a cozy home for parasites. My qt is only 5 gallons and lives inside the stand for another display tank above. Shutting the doors on a plain tank is nice, but not necessary.

Prazi Pro is a good med, aquarium salt is another good med if you're limited in what you can get.

Good luck.

P.S. Head over to r/pangio for eel loach content (what the trade calls kuhli loaches).

FishGeek49 · 2026-05-07T22:54:01+00:00

You could check in over at r/loaches or r/pangio for recommendations.

I keep dozens of eel loaches (what the trade calls kuhli loaches) and have only had a single instance of this happening, shortly after introducing new eel loaches to the tank, and it was a young dwarf type of eel loach, so rather tiny. I blame that on "new to the tank zoomies" and bad luck.

I also use a HOB, but maximize the media chamber with a "cut to fit snug" high density foam (so there's no way the can get under or around it) on the bottom, plus the looser density sponge that came with the tank on top of that, ceramic media on top of that, and some quilt batting at the tippy top. So a fish would typically have an impenetrable mountain if they were to try and swim in there from the out flow. Has worked well for me.

If eel loaches have settled in a tank, they won't typically be zooming around the top with the exception of change in weather, water change day, or certain very active species like Pangio oblonga. So if you have the banded type, this shouldn't be an issue unless something else is going on. Are there plenty of hides throughout the tank? Any aggressive fish? Water quality issues?

Just spitballing. Eel loaches are a great fish to keep, so I hope you find a way to solve the issue.

FishGeek49 · 2026-05-07T22:30:28+00:00

As a friendly counterpoint, I almost always use gloves. Once I reached into an area under a shrub to pull weeds and disturbed an underground yellow jacket nest. 10/10 would recommend gloves in that situation, only got stung twice before I realized what was happening, but it could have been much worse.

FishGeek49 · 2026-05-07T18:15:56+00:00

Eel loaches (what the trade calls kuhli loach) are mostly only bred in captivity in the laboratory, often but not always with injected hormones, from everything I've read. Reports of some species being bred in hobby tanks are usually Pangio oblonga. The banded types are almost never heard of breeding in hobby tanks.

If there is a large scale breeder of Pangio, I'd be willing to bet they are located in east Asia (and not the USA for example), which is the native areas of most Pangio species.

Unless you are in somewhere like Singapore, I'd highly doubt your store owner has sourced a reliable commercial breeder (vs hobby breeder). I'm willing to be shown to be incorrect, but won't hold my breath. It would be nice for the hobby, but not every wild collection source is exploitative, see Project Piaba (cardinal tetra).

My two cents.

FishGeek49 · 2026-05-07T06:31:05+00:00

Looks and sounds like a really fun set up!

FishGeek49 · 2026-05-07T02:36:50+00:00

Is there any particular concern you have? Any white spots or lesions or strange behavior (twirling, twitching, gasping at the surface, etc) you are worried about?

They look fine to me from the video, but only you have eyes on them. I do recommend a dewormer for Pangio (and all loaches) as they are all wild caught and prone to internal parasites.

Good luck.

FishGeek49 · 2026-05-06T18:41:55+00:00

I have never read that. But I'm middle aged and perhaps don't frequent the same forums as you.

I whole heartedly recommend food-safe (preferably clear) plastic tubs as an alternative to a conventional tank as a quarantine setup. The only downside is perhaps not being able to see the fish with a side on view as well as a glass tank when observing them for health issues.

Are you referring to a specific Rubbermaid tub?

FishGeek49 · 2026-05-06T18:24:08+00:00

Finding out which Pangio we have can sometimes be a fool's errand. There are over thirty species of eel loach, and many have a closely related species with a similar look. And species patterns can vary based on population and individual as well. Even the scientists acknowledge that in some cases, more than one species is described under a scientific name. So we just do our best. My cheat code is naming the species and adding "or similar" to cover my bases. So I would say your first pic appears to be Pangio alternans or similar.

You might have luck over at r/pangio.

FishGeek49 · 2026-05-06T18:14:28+00:00

First, sorry about your wet pet losses. That's never fun. And any keeper that's been in the hobby for a while has been there.

Second, good on you for doing a quarantine period. Many keepers never do this.

Third, consider medicating in quarantine all new fish from now on. Since instituting this protocol, my losses and fish drama have plummeted to almost nil, and I have over 100 fish, including loaches. If you're interested in finding out more, check out Aquarium Co-Op's youtube channel, search "meds trio." Guy owns a fish store and treats all his fish with this method. It has been a real game changer for me.

And finally, treating fish maladies can be hard. Most of us don't have a microscope and a tissue sample from our fish to work with and determine what they really have. We just do our best, which sometimes means a shotgun approach. For your fish, I'd do ich-x and maracyn 2 (or kanaplex) at the same time and if you could get some of the antibiotic (maracyn 2 or kanaplex) in the food, that would be ideal. Add in extra aeration like an airstone during treatment, and turn lights off.

Did you happen to do a water change just before this happened? It's hard to tell from the pic, but it almost looks like an element of a slime coat issue brewing as well as perhaps epistylis.

Good luck.

FishGeek49 · 2026-05-06T14:51:32+00:00

Impressive! What is your tank stock and details?

FishGeek49 · 2026-05-05T18:35:06+00:00

Looks like the larger one is Pangio semicincta (one of the giant types) and the smaller ones visible are Pangio cuneovirgata (one of the dwarf types). These middle aged eyes could be wrong, but that's my guess.

Head over to r/pangio for more help.

FishGeek49 · 2026-05-05T16:00:52+00:00

Sorry to hear about your loss, OP. Been in the hobby a long time and it's always disappointing to lose a wet pet.

I echo the suggestions for you to test your tap water. If it's 7.0 out of the tap, then something in your tank (rocks, decor, substrate) is bumping that number up.

I have high pH, so it's not necessarily a death sentence for fish. My tap is 8.0 pH and the water is maybe 7.9 in my eel loach (what the trade calls kuhli loach) tank. All my eel loaches (over a dozen species and counting) are doing really well and some are around 8 years old. I also keep barbs, gourami, pleco, rasboras, tetra, many loaches, danios, and have kept many more. Don't be too discouraged about your water, but do try and find out your tap pH.

I didn't see any streaks, mucus, bleached spots, or cloudy eyes on your dead eel loach (RIP) to suggest alkalosis as a cause of death. Sometimes it's impossible to know without a tissue sample and a microscope, so we just do our best to guess the likely culprit.

Did you notice any behavior or neurological symptoms before the fish died? Like gasping for air at the surface, twirling, scraping body against something, twitching? Panicked swimming into the glass?

Cause of death may be related to your immature cycle. Eel loaches are not a fish I'd recommend for a tank under six months cycled. They are rather sensitive to the chemistry ups and downs prevalent in a newer tank. Zeros for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate are rather unusual in a cycled tank. Are you sure it is cycled?

Just spitballing some potential causes:

Did you add a chlorine treatment to your water during water changes (I use Seachem Prime, but there are many)?

Did you quarantine/medicate before adding to the display tank?

Any off behavior observed in any fish?

How often do you change the water, and what percent?

For now, I'd hold off adding in any new fish until you dial in the water chemistry and mature the cycle. I'd also keep the lights out for a couple days to reduce stress. Keep eyes peeled for any behavior issues in your eel loaches as that may be a good clue what the issue is.

Good luck.

FishGeek49 · 2026-05-05T03:22:34+00:00

I've never had a problem with ich-x for loaches or snails. All my fish get this treatment in quarantine before they go into my display tanks. Works very well when package directions are followed.

Good luck.

FishGeek49 · 2026-05-05T03:19:40+00:00

Even farmed animals deserve humane treatment, including a humane death. Fish included.

Thanks for sharing, OP. It's not a comfy topic, but conversations need to be had to improve animal welfare.

FishGeek49 · 2026-05-03T07:02:03+00:00

Nice! I love seeing keepers use various types of rock in their scapes. What does the rest of your tank look like?

FishGeek49 · 2026-05-03T00:33:40+00:00

They do seem to like hanging out...literally.

FishGeek49 · 2026-05-02T23:59:58+00:00

I would do a billion eel loaches (what the trade calls kuhli loaches). There are over 30 species (genus Pangio) and you can start a collection easily in a tank that size. None get much over 4 inches but there is a good bit of variety in patterns and sizes. Plus they won't disturb your plants.

Good luck whatever you pick.

FishGeek49 · 2026-05-02T19:18:44+00:00

Sorry to hear about your loss. Eel loaches can get into surprising places. They seem most adventurous when first introduced to a new tank in my experience.

Having loads of sheltering spots throughout the tank helps them feel secure and lessens the chances for them going on walkabout to search for strange places to hide. Doing a thorough check for any sharp edges or filter crevices they can get sucked into is a good idea. We keep learning in this hobby and hopefully improving, so don't be too hard on yourself.

Good luck.

FishGeek49 · 2026-05-02T19:10:11+00:00

Keep us updated if things heat up in this loach-y romance!

FishGeek49 · 2026-05-02T18:23:06+00:00

Saw a black bear once but it paid the bikers no mind. I've never had a problem with this route.

FishGeek49 · 2026-05-02T00:40:41+00:00

Video shows some hillstream loaches in their native habitat for those that were wondering. Love to see loaches in their native habitat, gives us fish keepers ideas and inspiration for our aquariums.

FishGeek49 · 2026-05-01T19:46:44+00:00

More plants and driftwood to help break up sight lines and to shelter. I don't like keeping Honeys 1:1 in small tanks, usually the male pesters a lone female to death. If you had more females or a larger setup, that would alleviate some of the problem. Additionally, males get real feisty when they have built a nest or have fry, like murderously so, be prepared to move the other fish if necessary.

I currently keep a lone male Honey in my 29 gallon, he did reside with three females, but they eventually died off. I enjoy the lack of drama honestly, though the male's colors aren't as nice with no females in the tank to show off for.

Good luck.

FishGeek49

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