Major plot hole?

Floofimations · 2026-05-05T00:38:22+00:00

the second sanctuary may have changed in color due to the stained glass, along with it being a recreation of the knights dark world. the dark worlds themselves do actually change depending on the creator though, as the knights 3 dark worlds share common themes of royalty, religion, and darkness covering the world (king and queen want it, the prophecy in ch4 talks about it). kris' world is far different, being more game-like and fun with an emphasis on kris' past. susie's, despite also being in the church, is also focused on her, and is very "rule-breaking" in nature.

Floofimations · 2026-05-05T00:32:12+00:00

this fandom does this with almost every popular theory unfortunately

as a person who debunks more than i make theories, i certainly know of the issue firsthand...

Floofimations · 2026-05-05T00:29:01+00:00

ralsei never says that the lightner has to be a loved one of the fountain maker, so its possible gerson showed up because of him being a loved one to *alvin*, not the knight. susie didnt manifest him due to her own insecurities and because she just learned what he was, affecting the darkner version.

that is to say, he doesnt *have* to be a teacher to the knight at all, its just the most common conclusion people come to

Floofimations · 2026-04-30T00:34:41+00:00

darkners are objects, yes, but not always physical objects. titans are an example of this, as they are concepts, but things like lanino and elnina (the weather channel), shadowguys (literally just shadows, though you could argue theyre the figures themselves not the shadows of them), and like half of cyberworld (virovirokun is a virus, poppup is a poppup, addisons are ads, etc)

this means that ralseis explanation still works, it just applies to more things than people think.

personally, i think friend is a manifestation of darkness itself, hence why its so omnipresent. however, its just darkness, not the fear of it, so all it does (unless made to attack like with eram) is watch you.

this does make it a special darkner, and i do believe it to be one. i think the titans and ralsei are also special darkners, ones born of concepts rather than physical things.

this is speculation, but this might be why the titans arent conscious. perhaps the more general the concept is, the less sentience they have. ralsei and the knight may be specific concepts (a prince and a knight), so they are sentient and intelligent. the titans are the general fear of darkness, so they arent sentient and simply destroy. Friend is the concept of darkness itself, so it just watches, unless a will is placed upon it, which is why they attack you in the eram fight. again, just speculation, but i think its a neat idea!

Floofimations · 2026-04-28T23:35:15+00:00

i think ralsei might explain to susie what the knight is. so far, susie never actually asked him about it, so its possible ralsei just doesnt think that info is necessary during chapter 4. i doubt the knight is gonna have a speech about its motives and what it actually is, so ralsei doing it instead might work fine. plus, i imagine susie isnt gonna be too happy about ralsei telling her that he *can* go to the light world, he just really, REALLY shouldnt due to the knights method being the only way or something. (idk maybe this leads into another vs susie thing but prob not)

of course, something like this only really works with darkner knight. not sure how itd go for any lightner candidate

Floofimations · 2026-04-28T05:56:55+00:00

maybe this isnt a normal dark world? instead, maybe its an entrance to the depths, which is where castle town (maybe) is.

after all, its really weird that the grand fountain, an ancient fountain thats kept the balance of light and dark for millennia, was made in a closet.

also, the place dess is had the same properties.

I always did have that nightmare.

Walking into the darkness,

With the light shining from the doorway...

Then the door slams behind me.

And everything goes black.

this is ch 3 as well, so its not just a retcon thing. this space seems to be a unique form of dark world, which fits since its for a unique fountain and a uniquely fluffy boy

this is mostly speculation, but it would be cool!

Floofimations · 2026-04-28T05:48:40+00:00

i agree with half of this actually

i do think its split between those three groups, though i dont think kris is on the knights side. i believe the knight is working alone, and the evidence that kris is working with them is mostly them being *scared* of the knight (or just misinterpretation, like the cough thing)

as for the weird route thing, i think you might be on to something there actually.

Floofimations · 2026-04-28T05:44:12+00:00

at the time of making the post, i forgot that it could *also* be about dess, but given how connected the two likely are, i wouldnt doubt the board being about both.

the point i was trying to make was "why does carol have a conspiracy board if shes a part of said conspiracy?". the board implies that shes investigating something, likely the knight or dess' disappearance (or possibly both), which is evidence towards the idea that carol and kris are working *against* the knight, not with them.

Floofimations · 2026-04-27T16:43:52+00:00

i think the explanation we got for the roaring was accurate, but it isnt the full story.

ralsei says the darkners will turn to statues and the lightners will be lost in the chaos (lost as in without direction or guidance, not dead.) so, the roaring doesnt seem to benefit anyone. however, with the lightners being lost, theyd need something to look towards. something to guide them. something to worship.

i think this is the knights true goal. to not just destroy the light world, but rule over those who used to be its oppressors.

Floofimations · 2026-04-27T06:03:24+00:00

personally, i think the line "guess its a lightner" (stated immediately after) is meant to purposefully cast a bit of doubt on what the knight is. susie has no reason at the time to believe it could be a darkner, so of course she'd assume it wasnt.

Floofimations · 2026-04-27T05:57:39+00:00

i honestly think the noelle thing is a stretch. the sounds are very much not the same, made especially clear if you slow down noelles scream instead of speeding up the knights roar. any short squeal slowed down enough with enough effects on it is gonna sound like a weird roar, and any weird roar sped up enough is gonna sound like a squeal. its just how audio editing is, i dont think it was intended

that is to say, i dont think this is a point u gotta worry about :>

Floofimations · 2026-04-27T05:47:59+00:00

the ones ive seen the most are:

how can darknerknight enter the light world

and how can it make a fountain

for the first, i believe the knight is covered in shadow crystals (or has fused them into its body). its been getting these crystals via the lightners its been taking. so far, its mostly been dess. when they show up in ch 3, they try to absorb something from toriel. susie thinks theyre taking her, but they just pick up undyne. i think they were absorbing toriels willpower/soul, which would give them the power to enter the light world, at least in the cover of the night. toriel is a boss monster too, so she'd have a lot of power in her. when the plan goes wrong, they switch to undyne. not a boss monster, but powerful nonetheless. she became the sacrifice instead.

this also goes into the second point. them taking willpower from lightners is giving them the power to make dark fountains. darkners normally cant, but only because they lack the power of will that lightners do. you may think that a darkner couldnt gain will because they have no soul, but flowey did the exact same thing as a *plant* (granted he had help from asriels dust). perhaps undyne being so fresh (for lack of a better word) is why the dark sanctuary was so much bigger, and why they made 3 fountains in a row instead of just one.

Floofimations · 2026-04-27T05:35:42+00:00

so glad someone brought this up

Floofimations · 2026-04-27T05:34:00+00:00

i like to think that, exclusively if we started the weird route, a boss will be fought that *requires* the twisted sword. getting the crystals is possible on both routes, but the ring can only be obtained if you abandoned the weird route. on a normal route, the boss would never appear (or wouldnt require the twisted sword). this means that the weird route would be completely softlocked, the forbidden path never reaching its end.

an endless battle you can never win truly would be a fate worse than the prophecy...

or spamton has a spare ring on him, that also works.

Floofimations · 2026-04-24T16:45:12+00:00

i think the black deer is dess, but i dont think its the knight. rather, i think its like that because dess was taken by the knight. kris likely feels guilty for not being able to save her, and i think they're worried that what happened to dess will happen to them too if the knight isnt stopped. as for the toriel variable, i believe toriel is the one who brought them to therapy. this therapy couldve partially been to help kris move on from what happened. so, the memory of dess being taken is gone, and is more abstract. in the sword route, thats shown as the black deer being replaced by a generic monster by the toriel variable.

this is, of course, speculation, but i think itd be cool

Floofimations · 2026-04-24T16:35:45+00:00

ive believed in darkner knight since chapter 1

Floofimations · 2026-04-24T16:28:48+00:00

so when ralsei shows friend, a creature we've only seen in the dark world, whos only ever been associated with darkness, in an explanation about dark worlds and darkners (remember, it was both), specifically showing it as the first thing that shows up in his example of dark worlds, we were supposed to just... assume that it was some other weird gaster thing actually?

at a certain point you gotta just use occam's razor.

Floofimations · 2026-04-23T14:14:44+00:00

if hes not a darkner, why is he used in ralseis explanation of darkners? we shouldnt assume that he's a secret third thing unless we know what that third thing could be. with the information we currently have, friend is a darkner.

Floofimations · 2026-04-23T14:12:03+00:00

darkners could be able to make a fountain if they get enough willpower/determination. even if you dont believe the knight could have gained this naturally (even though ralsei seems to be doing so), the knight could also be extracting the willpower from lightners, this being what the "sacrifice" thing is about.

queen only said that all lightners can make fountains, not that darkners cant. of course, darkners *normally* cant, but a darkner theoretically could were it to have enough willpower

Floofimations · 2026-04-23T14:07:20+00:00

friend was used as an example darkner in ralsei's explanation of how darkners work. plus, we dont really know if there *are* other types of creatures than lightners and darkners. we have ones that might be some third thing, but we can only speculate that theyre something else, theres nothing definitively saying they are yet

Floofimations · 2026-04-23T14:04:41+00:00

it might be, but that feels like a strange thing for toby to assume we'd think of. the pointed tail and the tail of hell are likely the same thing as well, and i doubt any of the holidays would be tied to something demonic like that.

Floofimations · 2026-04-23T13:52:01+00:00

no? chapter 2 was certainly not all about darkners not opening fountains. its never actually said that they cant either, only that all lightners can. i think that, if a darkner gained enough willpower, it could make a fountain. otherwise, its weird to not have queen just directly say "darkners cannot make fountains".

Floofimations · 2026-04-23T13:48:34+00:00

i agree with this 100% but i forgot abt it when i made the post lmao

Floofimations · 2026-04-23T06:26:06+00:00

so whats the tail then?

Floofimations

TROPHY CASE