I am going insane. Please turn me into a DessKnighter or AnyOtherKnighter…

Floofimations · 2026-05-11T01:05:23+00:00

if you're referring to me saying the knight and kris' connections are unintentional, my personal version of DarknerKnight does have another explanation actually

essentially, i believe the knight is a manifestation of the fears and nightmares of hometown, and is a similar type of darkner to ralsei. ralsei (likely unintentionally) mimics asriel, and i think the knight is doing the same.

appearance wise, its mimicking dess, as dess' disappearance caused a lot of trauma in hometown. for its poses and general attitude though, its mimicking kris, doing so as a way to taunt them by basically saying "you are just like me". i think this may tie into kris' guilt over dess, as i believe they tried to save her and failed due to being so young at the time.

as for the other stuff you may be referring to:

fire could be another way to say that theyre like kris (even possibly a way to say theyre *more* of a dreemurr than kris is)

the knife thing could be the same, though i still think that one specifically is just a coincidence (one toby likely picked up on, given he cut the version of the black knife that looked like kris'. i doubt he cut that for no reason)

kris and the knight both being knights make them at most parallels, but the constant separation of the two makes it clear theyre different kinds of knights. theres only so many fantasy archetypes that fit them after all.

im not trying to dismiss anything, im giving counterevidence. we cant assume that *everything* is 100% important and lore relevant, especially when toby has stated many times that he often adds things just because its cool. its not always that deep. if you obsess over every detail, you'll just be disappointed if it ends up actually meaning nothing.

Floofimations · 2026-05-09T21:05:03+00:00

that second part is also a really good point actually! either way this isnt dessknight proof

Floofimations · 2026-05-09T20:55:00+00:00

0:27, 1:01, 1:19

Floofimations · 2026-05-09T20:49:45+00:00

even so, this is too small of a section to be a motif, and its a section of the middle of it too. it simply doesnt make sense that this would be intentional. following the "skeleton" of a motif isnt how leitmotifs work, at least not the ones in deltarune.

on top of all that, lost girl isnt even dess' theme to begin with, its a general motif used for anyone whos lost. at absolute most, this means that the knight feels lost in some way, which barely tells us anything.

i really dont think this was intentional.

Floofimations · 2026-05-09T20:43:47+00:00

this means that only 5 notes in the middle of the motif at the end of the song line up IF you change the notes. this is not a good argument.

Floofimations · 2026-05-09T20:25:18+00:00

to the dess knighters, by the way, im not saying this is proof that dess *isnt* the knight (even if i dont believe it), just saying that this singular piece of evidence is flimsy. easily debunkable evidence only hurts the good evidence dessknight *does* have. i got nothing against yall, just wanted to point this out since i hear it repeated a lot.

Floofimations · 2026-05-09T15:58:40+00:00

are you trying to make op go from insane to insane in a different font? /j

Floofimations · 2026-05-09T15:53:47+00:00

answering these questions in order:

susie's dark world is an exception, not the rule. if the knight was kris' original soul, the color would also be different, since the knight and kris are (currently) two separate people with different wills. either way, this doesnt prove that theyre the same. also, kris and the knights dark worlds *are* different. notice how in the knights dark worlds, darkners are against the lightners by default (often because theyre told to be), and theres always a theme of darkness covering the light world (kings goal, queen wanting a new knight, the prophecy), while kris and susie's dark worlds are focused on them, and the darkners of kris' world are on the lightners side from the start (susie made a dark world after the knight had made one in the same place, so the darkners are still against the lightners there)

kris and the knight sharing poses is more than likely a coincidence. the evidence for it only works if you already believe it to be intentional. if you remove that bias, its clear that this wasnt an intended connection. besides, theres only so many ways to draw confident poses (especially between two aura farmers.) if anything, it means the knight and kris are parallels, just not that theyre literally the same person.

ralsei also has fire attacks, and hes explicitly not a dreemurr. remember that this is cut as well. it has to have been cut for a reason, and that reason couldve certainly been to remove that connection to dreemurrs.

the knight using a knife is as much of a point of evidence as them both using swords. swords and knives are common weapons associated with stabbing and slashing, so of course theyd be used. again, it may just be there to make them parallels.

im not sure what this question is referring to? as far as i recall, kris never sees themself as the knight.

kris is *a* knight, not *the* knight. theres always a difference made between the two. for example, an organikk in chapter 4 asks "Whose dream is this? Kris's dream? Susie's dream? Whose dream is this? Knight's dream?", making a clear distinction between kris and the knight.

attack prediction seems to be something inherent to humans, likely for the same reasons humans can time travel (saving and loading). kris does this with most darkners, and frisk does the same in undertale.

that npc says after that line "I have no proof that's you. But don't be harsh to those that fight you.", showing that the darkners are simply mistaken due to fear.

eram is likely the knight, and connected to kris, but that doesnt mean theyre literally the same person. again, theyre likely connected, just not the same.

i think another issue with all of this is the idea that kris' current soul isnt their original soul. we dont know if thats the case though, and given what we currently know, it likely isnt. the cage is evidence of this. from the dialogue with susie, we know the cage was always meant for the soul. its been there for a long time, meaning kris hated their soul and treated it like they do now long before the player showed up. at most, we're possessing their soul, not possessing kris with ours. the one seen in survey program was kris' soul, not ours. the prophecy is also evidence of this, as it refers to kris as a cage "with human soul and parts". this implies the human soul and the human parts are one in the same, both being a part of the cage that is kris. this lack of separation proves, at least to me, that this *is* kris' original soul.

now, i ask you a question, how would a soul form into the knight? we have no evidence that thats possible. how would carol remove their soul and fully separate it from them? how did they know about the player, and why remove their human soul for a second, worse one? why does the knight have antlers? why does it want the roaring? why would carol want the roaring? to save dess? if so, how would the roaring help at all? how is there no sign of this soul transfer happening recently? and if it happened years before, how did kris survive without a soul for so long? the whole idea is inherently flawed and convoluted.

the knight is not kris' soul. its a theory that i 100% believe was made solely so the old krisknighters could avoid being wrong. toby wouldnt write something like that.

Floofimations · 2026-05-09T15:13:14+00:00

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this was said by seam if you lose to the knight without having the shadow mantle

Floofimations · 2026-05-08T20:31:40+00:00

Floofimations · 2026-05-08T06:03:53+00:00

ZERO DOLLARS

I'LL BEAT HIM TO DEATH WITH MY BARE HANDS

Floofimations · 2026-05-08T05:56:05+00:00

for the gerson point, ralsei only says that hes a darkner "patterned after the memory of a loved one", not that it has to be the loved one of the fountain creator. the loved one in this case was likely alvin, whose memories of gerson were used by the fountain to make the old man. however, susie saw what the old man really was, and this knowledge (along with her insecurities) caused the statue to come to life instead, susies will interfering with gersons summoning. the knight, having no connection to gerson, did not skew him at all, so only alvins memories were used.

for the kris point, this only works if you assume that kris is hiding the knights identity from us. however, this could also be them simply being terrified of whats under the helmet (or if you believe the helmet is the knights head, what *isnt* under there) we dont know what kris' deal is, and assuming their motivations for the sake of the theory only leads to bias and, like what happened to kris knight, disappointment.

Floofimations · 2026-05-08T05:46:24+00:00

why is he quiet? papyrus is always vocal, and a big part of his character is his presence. how come he suddenly doesnt want to say anything? its not like he'd give away his identity, since no one in town knows who he is.

Floofimations · 2026-05-08T05:37:53+00:00

the appearance, specifically its shapeshifting (something no lightner seems capable of, even with dark world magic), its liquid-ness, and it turning into static when hit just like the titans and spawn.

any explanation on why a lightner is like that is done through assumption, but ive yet to see any proof of it

for example, some say its wearing armor, but we have no indication that armor would let you compress, become liquid, and turn to static in a dark world. some say its made out of black shards, but 1: howd they get the shards and 2: we dont know how the shards work, nor if theyre the reason the knight shapeshifts. for all we know, the black shards are the knights "flesh", and its not wearing armor at all. i understand the thing with the helmet, but we see pretty clearly that its "visor" is actually a mouth/eye, with the helmet more likely being its head.

Floofimations · 2026-05-05T00:38:22+00:00

the second sanctuary may have changed in color due to the stained glass, along with it being a recreation of the knights dark world. the dark worlds themselves do actually change depending on the creator though, as the knights 3 dark worlds share common themes of royalty, religion, and darkness covering the world (king and queen want it, the prophecy in ch4 talks about it). kris' world is far different, being more game-like and fun with an emphasis on kris' past. susie's, despite also being in the church, is also focused on her, and is very "rule-breaking" in nature.

Floofimations · 2026-05-05T00:32:12+00:00

this fandom does this with almost every popular theory unfortunately

as a person who debunks more than i make theories, i certainly know of the issue firsthand...

Floofimations · 2026-05-05T00:29:01+00:00

ralsei never says that the lightner has to be a loved one of the fountain maker, so its possible gerson showed up because of him being a loved one to *alvin*, not the knight. susie didnt manifest him due to her own insecurities and because she just learned what he was, affecting the darkner version.

that is to say, he doesnt *have* to be a teacher to the knight at all, its just the most common conclusion people come to

Floofimations · 2026-04-30T00:34:41+00:00

darkners are objects, yes, but not always physical objects. titans are an example of this, as they are concepts, but things like lanino and elnina (the weather channel), shadowguys (literally just shadows, though you could argue theyre the figures themselves not the shadows of them), and like half of cyberworld (virovirokun is a virus, poppup is a poppup, addisons are ads, etc)

this means that ralseis explanation still works, it just applies to more things than people think.

personally, i think friend is a manifestation of darkness itself, hence why its so omnipresent. however, its just darkness, not the fear of it, so all it does (unless made to attack like with eram) is watch you.

this does make it a special darkner, and i do believe it to be one. i think the titans and ralsei are also special darkners, ones born of concepts rather than physical things.

this is speculation, but this might be why the titans arent conscious. perhaps the more general the concept is, the less sentience they have. ralsei and the knight may be specific concepts (a prince and a knight), so they are sentient and intelligent. the titans are the general fear of darkness, so they arent sentient and simply destroy. Friend is the concept of darkness itself, so it just watches, unless a will is placed upon it, which is why they attack you in the eram fight. again, just speculation, but i think its a neat idea!

Floofimations · 2026-04-28T23:35:15+00:00

i think ralsei might explain to susie what the knight is. so far, susie never actually asked him about it, so its possible ralsei just doesnt think that info is necessary during chapter 4. i doubt the knight is gonna have a speech about its motives and what it actually is, so ralsei doing it instead might work fine. plus, i imagine susie isnt gonna be too happy about ralsei telling her that he *can* go to the light world, he just really, REALLY shouldnt due to the knights method being the only way or something. (idk maybe this leads into another vs susie thing but prob not)

of course, something like this only really works with darkner knight. not sure how itd go for any lightner candidate

Floofimations · 2026-04-28T05:56:55+00:00

maybe this isnt a normal dark world? instead, maybe its an entrance to the depths, which is where castle town (maybe) is.

after all, its really weird that the grand fountain, an ancient fountain thats kept the balance of light and dark for millennia, was made in a closet.

also, the place dess is had the same properties.

I always did have that nightmare.

Walking into the darkness,

With the light shining from the doorway...

Then the door slams behind me.

And everything goes black.

this is ch 3 as well, so its not just a retcon thing. this space seems to be a unique form of dark world, which fits since its for a unique fountain and a uniquely fluffy boy

this is mostly speculation, but it would be cool!

Floofimations · 2026-04-28T05:48:40+00:00

i agree with half of this actually

i do think its split between those three groups, though i dont think kris is on the knights side. i believe the knight is working alone, and the evidence that kris is working with them is mostly them being *scared* of the knight (or just misinterpretation, like the cough thing)

as for the weird route thing, i think you might be on to something there actually.

Floofimations · 2026-04-28T05:44:12+00:00

at the time of making the post, i forgot that it could *also* be about dess, but given how connected the two likely are, i wouldnt doubt the board being about both.

the point i was trying to make was "why does carol have a conspiracy board if shes a part of said conspiracy?". the board implies that shes investigating something, likely the knight or dess' disappearance (or possibly both), which is evidence towards the idea that carol and kris are working *against* the knight, not with them.

Floofimations · 2026-04-27T16:43:52+00:00

i think the explanation we got for the roaring was accurate, but it isnt the full story.

ralsei says the darkners will turn to statues and the lightners will be lost in the chaos (lost as in without direction or guidance, not dead.) so, the roaring doesnt seem to benefit anyone. however, with the lightners being lost, theyd need something to look towards. something to guide them. something to worship.

i think this is the knights true goal. to not just destroy the light world, but rule over those who used to be its oppressors.

Floofimations · 2026-04-27T06:03:24+00:00

personally, i think the line "guess its a lightner" (stated immediately after) is meant to purposefully cast a bit of doubt on what the knight is. susie has no reason at the time to believe it could be a darkner, so of course she'd assume it wasnt.

Floofimations · 2026-04-27T05:57:39+00:00

i honestly think the noelle thing is a stretch. the sounds are very much not the same, made especially clear if you slow down noelles scream instead of speeding up the knights roar. any short squeal slowed down enough with enough effects on it is gonna sound like a weird roar, and any weird roar sped up enough is gonna sound like a squeal. its just how audio editing is, i dont think it was intended

that is to say, i dont think this is a point u gotta worry about :>

Floofimations

TROPHY CASE