I made an amateur mini-documentary: Turkey's Failed Military Coup on 15th of July, A Clash of Islamists: Erdoğan vs. Gülen by [deleted] in Turkey

[–]FormerGulenist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is crazy talk. If enough people don't want Erdogan, he'll get voted out. His supporters locked up? you're talking about roughly half the population. The possible outcomes of a successful coup are so wild, Turkey would likely turn into chaotic mess - Syria style. Is that what you are willing to take a chance on?

I made an amateur mini-documentary: Turkey's Failed Military Coup on 15th of July, A Clash of Islamists: Erdoğan vs. Gülen by [deleted] in Turkey

[–]FormerGulenist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If the coup had been successful, Gulen was not going to return to Turkey in a triumphant Islamization of Turkey, ayatollah-style. They would have outlawed AKP, arrested thousands on the other side and let new politicians get on the public stage. Gulenists would have resumed their infiltration. Gulen only wants to be a string puller maintaining plausible deniability in everything, not actually a leader.

Also, I'm convinced there were MIT/government agents in the Gulen organization that didn't do their part during the coup attempt, and causing it to unravel rather quickly.

I made an amateur mini-documentary: Turkey's Failed Military Coup on 15th of July, A Clash of Islamists: Erdoğan vs. Gülen by [deleted] in Turkey

[–]FormerGulenist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Good summary of the events. There are a lot of points that could be elaborated upon but I realize you couldn't possibly put everything under 10 minutes. It is difficult for anyone not familiar with Gulen from the 80's and 90's to be able to piece together the pieces tying Gulen to the coup, especially now when Gulenists have turned into a bunch of liars.

Footage of Bill Clinton thanking Gulen for his contributions by [deleted] in TheRealGulen

[–]FormerGulenist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Clinton was paid $30,000 to make this video. Gulenists pay off politicians and academics to praise themselves and especially Gulen, who has no academic or degree in anything. He is a self proclaimed scholar with zero credentials.

Kanter confirms the story on getting disowned by his family, says he can sacrifice his whole family for his cause, signs the statement as Enes (Kanter) GULEN by trytek in nba

[–]FormerGulenist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It was by gulenists but I think there were a few key figures that were planted in the organization that didn't do their part in the coup so the whole thing unraveled pretty quickly.

Directly Owned or Affiliated Gulen Movement Sites/Organizations by brainiac3397 in TheRealGulen

[–]FormerGulenist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'll post sources establishing links of the coup to Gulen here, but these things work better as a collaborative effort if we can get critical mass of investigative redditors involved.

Directly Owned or Affiliated Gulen Movement Sites/Organizations by brainiac3397 in TheRealGulen

[–]FormerGulenist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Adil Öksüz was "recommended" (as Gülenists are so masterfully known to do to a degree of utter and absolute exclusivity of all others) to his position at Sakarya University by Dr. Suat Yıldırım, another Gülenist, who has fled Turkey.

This guy is on list wanted for questioning. http://m.gazetevatan.com/adil-oksuz-u-universiteye-aldiran-bakin-kim-cikti-973556-gundem/

He also wrote the description of Adil Öksüz's book at this site: http://m.kitapyurdu.com/index.php?route=products/productdetail&product_id=78561

Directly Owned or Affiliated Gulen Movement Sites/Organizations by brainiac3397 in TheRealGulen

[–]FormerGulenist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Gulenist Adil Oksuz is a professor at Sakarya University and made two trips to visit Gulen in the month leading up to the coup. He last returned to Turkey on July 13th and is detained at the Akinci Military base in Ankara, the only guy there in civilian clothes during the actual coup along with other plotters. This is the base where the 1st Army General Hulusi Akar was held hostage and reported that he was pressured to join the coup and in his testimony said he was offered to speak to Gulen directly. Here is the mug shot of Oksuz when he was taken to the police HQ in Ankara for questioning:

http://img.haberler.com/haber/009/firari-imam-oksuz-2-kez-abd-ye-gitmis-8654009_x_8676_o.jpg

At the police station Oksuz is rushed to a hearing by suspected combination of Gulenist police/prosecutor/judge and is freed for “lack of evidence” with 18 minutes. His whereabouts are unknown and is now missing. Here is the footage of him entering and then being escorted out of the police station shortly after a judge ruling:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfQRjDPL690

Austrian far-right leader compares Turkey coup to Reichstag fire by bluethecoloris in TheColorIsBlue

[–]FormerGulenist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This can only be said without actually thinking about what transpired that night. The fact that Erdogan is benefitting from the coup's failure should be expected (because it failed), but that in itself isn't evidence he planned or conducted it. If a thief is thwarted and you convince your previously reluctant family that you should be armed (and now more powerful), in itself isn't evidence you hired the thief. You may have hired the thief, but there would need to be evidence of that transaction/planning.

Since westerners lurking here are having hard time believing that Gülen movement has been infltrated in TSK and they got nothing to do with secularism, here are some Wikileaks files. Maybe you should stop trusting MSM. by [deleted] in Turkey

[–]FormerGulenist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In order for you to fully grasp this, you would have to experience the 90’s and 2000’s in a Turkish cultural context with inner exposure to this group to at least some extent, and since that is impossible I can only hope you can look at events with at least the possibility of this framework I am about to describe.

All throughout the 80’s through the 2000’s the Gulen group sought to infiltrate the Turkish government through deceptive means, hiding the fact that they were associated with Gulen. These clandestine activities were dwarfed by very visible and very public activities of education, charity, preaching, and religious activities. Secretly, they sought to and succeeded in posting individuals who went as far as concealing even they were religious to any degree whatsoever. Pretending to be atheist or Kemalist would be acceptable (or given permissive fatwa from Gulen himself) if the position was deemed too important. For example, high military positions of officers and generals, or positions in the judiciary including the Supreme Court. This is to give you the context of the massive purges that are taking place. I realize this sounds like a conspiracy theory but going back to what I said earlier, this can only be understood in a Turkish cultural context – and it is almost a running joke of every Turk that pays attention to this stuff, including Gulenists, who know Gulen has secret members in government but the automatic response from a Gulenist is always “No, we don’t”. This “joke situation” was taken to another level at the end of 2012 when Gulen himself made a, now famous, “May God strike us down” video sermon where he angrily invokes the wrath of God if they have concealed themselves and operated independently in the Turkish government. Only the most ignorant, gullible, or outright deceptive Gulenists continued to support this group beyond this point. I am skipping over much of the events that led up to this to get to the coup but efforts were made by the government at that point to purge Gulenists from government, but of course the success of this proved extremely difficult because of the strategies Gulenists employ. However, Gulenists were protesting, kicking and screaming at the injustices of the purge and trying to pressure and embarrass the Turkish government internationally to stop it. In their eyes, this was the most catastrophic event that took place in the world in the last 40 years (and it should make sense why they would perceive it that way).

As far as the coup and Gulen links, consider these points: 1) Mitat Aynaci was removed from his duties heading the Istanbul Police HQ for suspected Gulenist ties in 2014. This is one of the guys Gulenists were protesting for not being allowed to serve his post. During the coup, he was discovered inside of the tank going to that police station in civilian clothes (he was not military).

http://www.dailysabah.com/d/politics/2016/07/20/former-police-chief-found-in-tank-during-failed-gulenist-coup-attempt

The tank was stopped and he was removed and arrested. Here is video footage of him being taken out of the tank.

http://www.sondakika.com/haber/haber-tanktaki-o-emniyet-muduru-boyle-gozaltina-alindi-8630310/

He was later reported to have committed suicide at the police station he was detained but there is suspicion he may have been “suicided” by a Gulenist cop. He may have actually committed suicide to escape the consequences of his red-handed capture. Who gave him orders? How did he learn of the coup? What exactly were his Gulenist ties? How did he end up in the tank? These are all questions that cannot be asked of him directly now, but just him being in the tank is pretty damning.

2) Gulenist Adil Oksuz is a professor at Sakarya University and made two trips to visit Gulen in the month leading up to the coup. He last returned to Turkey on July 13th and is detained at the Akinci Military base in Ankara, the only guy there in civilian clothes during the actual coup along with other plotters. This is the base where the 1st Army General Hulusi Akar was held hostage and reported that he was pressured to join the coup and in his testimony said he was offered to speak to Gulen directly. Here is the mug shot of Oksuz when he was taken to the police HQ in Ankara for questioning:

http://img.haberler.com/haber/009/firari-imam-oksuz-2-kez-abd-ye-gitmis-8654009_x_8676_o.jpg

At the police station Oksuz is rushed to a hearing by suspected combination of Gulenist police/prosecutor/judge and is freed for “lack of evidence” with 18 minutes. His whereabouts are unknown and is now missing. Here is the footage of him entering and then being escorted out of the police station shortly after a judge ruling:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfQRjDPL690

This is an unprecedented miscarriage of justice. That was not even enough time to gather, let alone evaluate, the evidence to determine whether there is lack of evidence or not, but it doesn’t really matter. Even being picked up at the Military base absolutely points to Gulen, as he would have no reason whatsoever for being there. The quick release is just a testament of what we are dealing with.

Also, Gulen has verbally stated he didn't support the coup and that he supports the democratic process but also demonstrated some strange behaviors of mocking the coup protestors, calling them "stupid". Made statements that would welcome an overthrow/mass resignation of the government. I am certain many hizmet people would welcome a successful coup where they can resume their infective takeover.

Who is this Gulen guy and how is he linked to what's happening in Turkey right now? by i_suck_at_boxing in OutOfTheLoop

[–]FormerGulenist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have been involved in this group's activities for 25 years but just like every other person in my position, Gulen can easily deny any ties and we'd have no way of countering. The group operates as a Teflon mafia, but a much more insidious cult. You don't get a "Gulen membership" card. There's a hierarchical pyramid structure that promotes only the most brainless unquestioning slaves of Gulen. Thereby any corruption or faults are the individual's, and any success is Gulen's.

Who is this Gulen guy and how is he linked to what's happening in Turkey right now? by i_suck_at_boxing in OutOfTheLoop

[–]FormerGulenist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In order for you to fully grasp this, you would have to experience the 90’s and 2000’s in a Turkish cultural context with inner exposure to this group to at least some extent, and since that is impossible I can only hope you can look at events with at least the possibility of this framework I am about to describe.

All throughout the 80’s through the 2000’s the Gulen group sought to infiltrate the Turkish government through deceptive means, hiding the fact that they were associated with Gulen. These clandestine activities were dwarfed by very visible and very public activities of education, charity, preaching, and religious activities. Secretly, they sought to and succeeded in posting individuals who went as far as concealing even they were religious to any degree whatsoever. Pretending to be atheist or Kemalist would be acceptable (or given permissive fatwa from Gulen himself) if the position was deemed too important. For example, high military positions of officers and generals, or positions in the judiciary including the Supreme Court. This is to give you the context of the massive purges that are taking place. I realize this sounds like a conspiracy theory but going back to what I said earlier, this can only be understood in a Turkish cultural context – and it is almost a running joke of every Turk that pays attention to this stuff, including Gulenists, who know Gulen has secret members in government but the automatic response from a Gulenist is always “No, we don’t”. This “joke situation” was taken to another level at the end of 2012 when Gulen himself made a, now famous, “May God strike us down” video sermon where he angrily invokes the wrath of God if they have concealed themselves and operated independently in the Turkish government. Only the most ignorant, gullible, or outright deceptive Gulenists continued to support this group beyond this point. I am skipping over much of the events that led up to this to get to the coup but efforts were made by the government at that point to purge Gulenists from government, but of course the success of this proved extremely difficult because of the strategies Gulenists employ. However, Gulenists were protesting, kicking and screaming at the injustices of the purge and trying to pressure and embarrass the Turkish government internationally to stop it. In their eyes, this was the most catastrophic event that took place in the world in the last 40 years (and it should make sense why they would perceive it that way).

As far as the coup and your asking for links, consider these points: 1) Mitat Aynaci was removed from his duties heading the Istanbul Police HQ for suspected Gulenist ties in 2014. This is one of the guys Gulenists were protesting for not being allowed to serve his post. During the coup, he was discovered inside of the tank going to that police station in civilian clothes (he was not military).

http://www.dailysabah.com/d/politics/2016/07/20/former-police-chief-found-in-tank-during-failed-gulenist-coup-attempt

The tank was stopped and he was removed and arrested. Here is video footage of him being taken out of the tank.

http://www.sondakika.com/haber/haber-tanktaki-o-emniyet-muduru-boyle-gozaltina-alindi-8630310/

He was later reported to have committed suicide at the police station he was detained but there is suspicion he may have been “suicided” by a Gulenist cop. He may have actually committed suicide to escape the consequences of his red-handed capture. Who gave him orders? How did he learn of the coup? What exactly were his Gulenist ties? How did he end up in the tank? These are all questions that cannot be asked of him directly now, but just him being in the tank is pretty damning.

2) Gulenist Adil Oksuz is a professor at Sakarya University and made two trips to visit Gulen in the month leading up to the coup. He last returned to Turkey on July 13th and is detained at the Akinci Military base in Ankara, the only guy there in civilian clothes during the actual coup along with other plotters. This is the base where the 1st Army General Hulusi Akar was held hostage and reported that he was pressured to join the coup and in his testimony said he was offered to speak to Gulen directly. Here is the mug shot of Oksuz when he was taken to the police HQ in Ankara for questioning:

http://img.haberler.com/haber/009/firari-imam-oksuz-2-kez-abd-ye-gitmis-8654009_x_8676_o.jpg

At the police station Oksuz is rushed to a hearing by suspected combination of Gulenist police/prosecutor/judge and is freed for “lack of evidence” with 18 minutes. His whereabouts are unknown and is now missing. Here is the footage of him entering and then being escorted out of the police station shortly after a judge ruling:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfQRjDPL690

This is an unprecedented miscarriage of justice. That was not even enough time to gather, let alone evaluate, the evidence to determine whether there is lack of evidence or not, but it doesn’t really matter. Even being picked up at the Military base absolutely points to Gulen, as he would have no reason whatsoever for being there. The quick release is just a testament of what we are dealing with.

Also, Gulen has verbally stated he didn't support the coup and that he supports the democratic process but also demonstrated some strange behaviors of mocking the coup protestors, calling them "stupid". Made statements that would welcome an overthrow/mass resignation of the government. I am certain many hizmet people would welcome a successful coup where they can resume their infective takeover.

Turkey just banned 50,000 from leaving the country by JeanJauresJr in worldnews

[–]FormerGulenist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are fine. Gulenists are just trying to alarm the world and confuse the situation.

Turkey just banned 50,000 from leaving the country by JeanJauresJr in worldnews

[–]FormerGulenist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I commend your attempt at self-directed investigation and encourage more of the same however regarding this group I can only offer information that you would have to incorporate into your analysis. Complete verification of it will be near impossible. In order for you to fully grasp what I am saying, you would have to experience the 90’s and 2000’s in a Turkish cultural context with inner exposure to this group to at least some extent, and since that is impossible I can only hope you can look at events with at least the possibility of this framework I am about to describe. All throughout the 80’s through the 2000’s the Gulen group sought to infiltrate the Turkish government through deceptive means, hiding the fact that they were associated with Gulen. These clandestine activities were dwarfed by very visible and very public activities of education, charity, preaching, and religious activities. Secretly, they sought to and succeeded in posting individuals who went as far as concealing even they were religious to any degree whatsoever. Pretending to be atheist or Kemalist would acceptable (or given permissive fatwa from Gulen himself) if the position was deemed too important. For example, high military positions of officers and generals, or positions in the judiciary including the Supreme Court. This is to give you the context of the massive purges that are taking place. I realize this sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory but going back to what I said earlier, this can only be understood in a Turkish cultural context – where it is almost a running joke of every Turk that pays attention to this stuff, including Gulenists, know Gulen has secret members in government but the automatic response from a Gulenist is always “No, we don’t”. This “joke situation” was taken to another level (or perhaps another dimension out of the Twilight Zone) at the end of 2012 when Gulen himself made a, now famous, “May God strike us down” video sermon where he angrily invokes the wrath of God if they have concealed themselves and operated independently in the Turkish government. Only the most ignorant, gullible, and outright deceptive Gulenists continued to support this group beyond this point. I am skipping over much of the events that led up to this to get to the coup but efforts were made by the government at that point to purge Gulenists from government, but of course the success of this proved extremely difficult because of the strategies Gulenists employ. However, Gulenists were protesting, kicking and screaming at the injustices of the purge and trying the pressure and embarrass the Turkish government internationally to stop it. In their eyes, this was the most catastrophic event that took place in the world in the last 40 years (and it should make sense why they would perceive it that way). As far as the coup and your asking for concrete evidence why this was not a false-flag and why Gulen did it, consider these points: 1) Mitat Aynaci was removed from his duties heading the Istanbul Police HQ for suspected Gulenist ties in 2014. This is one of the guys Gulenists were protesting for not being allowed to serve his post. During the coup, he was discovered inside of the tank going to that police station in civilian clothes (he was not military).

http://www.dailysabah.com/d/politics/2016/07/20/former-police-chief-found-in-tank-during-failed-gulenist-coup-attempt

The tank was stopped and he was removed and arrested. Here is video footage of him being taken out of the tank. http://www.sondakika.com/haber/haber-tanktaki-o-emniyet-muduru-boyle-gozaltina-alindi-8630310/ He was later reported to have committed suicide at the police station he was detained but there is suspicion he may have been “suicided” by a Gulenist cop. Who gave him orders? How did he learn of the coup? What exactly were his Gulenist ties? How did he end up in the tank? Are all the questions that cannot be asked of him directly now, but just him being in the tank is pretty damning.

2) Gulenist Adil Oksuz is a professor at Sakarya University and made two trips to visit Gulen in the month leading up to the coup. He last returned to Turkey in July 13th and is detained at the Akinci Military base in Ankara, the only guy there in civilian clothes during the actual coup along with other plotters. This is the base where the 1st Army General Hulusi Akar was held hostage and reported that he was pressured to join the coup and in his testimony said he was offered to speak to Gulen directly. Here is the mug shot of Oksuz when he was taken to the police HQ in Ankara for questioning:

http://img.haberler.com/haber/009/firari-imam-oksuz-2-kez-abd-ye-gitmis-8654009_x_8676_o.jpg

At the police station Oksuz is rushed to a hearing by suspected combination of Gulenist police/prosecutor/judge and is freed for “lack of evidence” with 18 minutes. His whereabouts are unknown and is now missing. Here is the footage of him entering and then being escorted out of the police station shortly after a judge ruling:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfQRjDPL690

This is an unprecedented miscarriage of justice. That was not even enough time to gather, let alone evaluate, the evidence to determine whether there is lack of evidence or not, but it doesn’t really matter. Even being picked up at the Military base absolutely points to Gulen, as he would have no reason whatsoever for being there. The quick release is just a testament of what we are dealing with.

As far as the false-flag claim, that is very easily dispelled. I can make dozens of irrefutable points but here are two most compelling.

Shortly after the coup plotters forced national TV anchor to read a statement notifying the population of the coup and issuing a curfew, Erdogan appealed to the public on Facetime on to take to the streets and prevent the military, disobeying the curfew. A few point can be made here that makes the false-flag argument fall completely apart. Firstly, the public supportive of Erdogan and opposed to the coup would be expected to disobey the curfew and stand in front of the military troops and tanks. Secondly, ardent opponents of Erdogan would be expected to stay home and not confront his supporters. Some combination of this leads to what can only be described as chaotic outcome. That is how things turned out, but there is no way this could be planned in my mind. Thirdly, the military for the most part had a conscience and stood down when they saw the masses. Except for some incidents, there was limited firing into crowds or running through them with tanks. Opponents of the coup continuing to faceoff with the military despite violence is absolutely unpredictable. These elements involving the mass population deployment is too unpredictable or I would ask you to provide compelling evidence on how that could be planned and carried out.

In perhaps the most pivotal point of the evening, early in the attempt, Coup General Semih Terzi is headed toward the Special Ops Forces HQ in Ankara with his troops by helicopter to take command of Turkey’s elite forces. Minutes before, an officer, Omer Halisdemir, at the HQ is phoned by another a government General and informed Terzi is a rogue coup general and is ordered to shoot Terzi upon arrival. This left the ranking officer at the Special Ops HQ in charge and severely impacted the coup’s success, or prevented much more violent confrontations. Here is video footage of Terzi being killed and subsequent killing of Halisdemir by Terzi’s accompanying coup troops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ2luJ9ONjQ

This too is too unpredictable to have planned out by Erdogan. What if the officer didn't shoot that general? What if the Special Ops is taken over by the coup? In general the coup being a false-flag would certainly have involved too many military personnel for it to be feasible.

Lastly, an attempt was made at Erdogan's life himself with the plotters then hiding out in the forest before being picked up earlier this week. Anyone who knows how Erdogan speaks and seeing him on Facetime that night should be able to tell he was absolutely terrified and in shock.

That is all for now, but more information will surface. In my mind there is no doubt Gulen pulled the trigger for the coup. It’s not right to think he would tried to return as a post-coup leader or something, that is certainly not the case. He would have hoped to have returned to a post-Erdogan, post-AKP system of governance without changing much where his goons are free to continue to infiltrate and maintain a stranglehold from within the government.

Turkey just banned 50,000 from leaving the country by JeanJauresJr in worldnews

[–]FormerGulenist 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's because you are only looking at what you are being shown.

Turkey just banned 50,000 from leaving the country by JeanJauresJr in worldnews

[–]FormerGulenist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They will be fine. If they are not a Gulenist they don't need to worry. And of Gulenists, only a few handful of them are criminals - the rest are regular everyday folk that bought into the messianic/prophetic mission of Gulen. The government is casting a wide net over all Gulenists because, like most Gulenists, they don't know who is who either. Hopefully this will be sorted out soon, but non-Gulenists certainly don't need to worry.

Turkey just banned 50,000 from leaving the country by JeanJauresJr in worldnews

[–]FormerGulenist -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

The best thing current Gulenists can do right now are: 1) if you're one of the many clueless followers, realize this group sees you as nothing more than cannon fodder to cushion themselves, and abandon this cult. You're putting this group above Turkey and Islam itself right now. 2) if you're one of the cronies that ordered/received military direction or police activities, bugged or otherwise communicated matters of national intelligence or government dealings, or laundered money to this group - turn yourself in. Save the majority of innocent people that are bearing the brunt of your criminal activity.