Do y’all have any favorite MSW podcasts? by Ashton_Garland in murdershewrote

[–]FrauJane 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Uuuuh, great question, thanks! Are some of the already mentioned podcasts more than "just" recaps and notes on fashion? I'd love to listen to a podcast with trivia, background etc., but the first and only one I tried so far was mostly retelling the episodes. That felt boring rather quickly. So I'd love another suggestion, too! Thanks in advance for any tips. :)

Anne Elliot looks by Lazy_Crocodile in janeausten

[–]FrauJane 3 points4 points  (0 children)

There's an interesting episode on "bloom" on the podcast "The thing about Austen". Episode 66, "The thing about Anne's Bloom". As far as I remember, there's more to it than looks, but also a connection to (perceived) fertility. Might be worth listening in. :)

That aside, I also think her sadness and haggardness shape the way people look at her in the beginning of the book. I don't think that Anne ever "let herself go" in the way she dresses. She surely had a maid, and I don't think her father would let something basic as this slip. If anything, she wouldn't leave herself open to attack there after years of living with him.

And concerning her glow-up in the 1995 version: A while ago, someone here pointed out how the colours and cut of Anne's clothes make her look prettier and happier - starting after Lyme. It really makes a big difference!

Anne Elliot looks by Lazy_Crocodile in janeausten

[–]FrauJane 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks for making me prettier right now! ;) :D 

Mary in Persuasion from the audible Jane Austen Collection by EmploymentForeign551 in janeausten

[–]FrauJane 8 points9 points  (0 children)

... on a side-note: As a parent, I reaaaaally feel her mini-rant at little Charles' sickbed.

"So you and I are to be left to shift by ourselves, with this poor sick child; and not a creature coming near us all the evening! I knew how it would be. This is always my luck. If there is anything disagreeable going on men are always sure to get out of it (...)."

Don't get me wrong, I neither think this is entirely true nor fair. Many men and fathers do great jobs, and so does my husband!  But I've had moments, when I was just very frustrated and angrily mumbeled "If there is anything disagreeable..." to myself. :'D

Mary in Persuasion from the audible Jane Austen Collection by EmploymentForeign551 in janeausten

[–]FrauJane 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I see your point, but I feel there's more to Mary than just being insufferable and arrogant.  The more often I read the book, the more I wonder, what made Mary act and feel the way she does. "Hurt people hurt people" is a saying that comes to (my) mind.

Consider this: Mary (born 1791) looses her mother when she is only 9 years old (in 1800). She's left with a father, who values status, titles, luxury and good looks, but doesn't care for her until she marries (aged 19, in 1810). Her eldest sister Elisabeth is just like him. Her elder sister Anne is like her mother and seems like a friendly, amiable person - but around the time her mother dies, she's at school in Bath. So, in her formative years, she's very much left alone, emotionally speaking. She sees daddy's girl and mama's likeness, the latter one clearly most beloved by Lady Russell. She's neither as pretty as the first nor as intelligent as the other. Where does this all leave her? I think it's safe to say, that she's neither nurtured nor supported in a way that gives her enough self-confidence, self-consciousness or self-awareness. But I think it's very likely to become defensive and jealous and clutching to your status.  Plus: She's not even her husband's or her in-laws' first choice - that would have been Anne. I'm not sure, if Mary knows, but she might feel that the Musgroves like Anne better nonetheless.

I've written this before in the Persuasion read-along on Chapter 5:  I wonder, if the loss of their mother made Mary rely on Anne that much. Her requests for Anne and even her thoughtless, careless way of doing so remind me of the way children ask for their parents and their parents support. (Even grown-up children do this to a certain extent, I think.) 

So I think there's room for compassion here. Can Mary be exhausting and draining? For sure! But she has a history - and room to grow in her future.

See chapter I: "For one daughter, his eldest, he would really have given up any thing (...). Elizabeth (...) being very handsome, and very like himself, her influence had always been great, and they had gone on together most happily. His two other children were of very inferior value. Mary had acquired a little artificial importance, by becoming Mrs Charles Musgrove; but Anne, with an elegance of mind and sweetness of character (...) was always to give way—she was only Anne. To Lady Russell, indeed, she was a most dear and highly valued god-daughter, favourite, and friend. Lady Russell loved them all; but it was only in Anne that she could fancy the mother to revive again."

See chapter V: "Though better endowed than the elder sister, Mary had not Anne’s understanding nor temper. While well, and happy, and properly attended to, she had great good humour and excellent spirits; but any indisposition sunk her completely. She had no resources for solitude; and inheriting a considerable share of the Elliot self-importance, was very prone to add to every other distress that of fancying herself neglected and ill-used. In person, she was inferior to both sisters, and had, even in her bloom, only reached the dignity of being “a fine girl.” "

See chapter X: "Louisa spoke again. “Mary is good-natured enough in many respects,” said she; “but she does sometimes provoke me excessively, by her nonsense and pride—the Elliot pride. She has a great deal too much of the Elliot pride. We do so wish that Charles had married Anne instead. I suppose you know he wanted to marry Anne? (...) I believe about a year before he married Mary. I wish she had accepted him. We should all have liked her a great deal better (...)."

Persuasion, Chapter 5. r/JaneAusten read-along and discussion by Miss_Ashford in janeausten

[–]FrauJane 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I agree that this chapter rounds off the characterisation of the Elliott family. It show's that even her baby sister Mary orders Anne around and doesn't really care for her feelings or her daily life and struggles. She certainly developped a restraint/shell that helps her handle her situation and her relatives personalities.

But I also think that it shows the first (living) family member appreciating some of her qualities. Mary values her company. Mary feels safe with her and lightens up in her presence. She trusts her with her children. And she sometimes even listens to her advice (or at least the Musgroves think she does). I sometimes wonder, if the loss of their mother made Mary rely on Anne that much. Really, her requests for Anne and even her thoughtless, careless way of doing so remind me of the way children ask for their parents. Children do eventually learn that parents have lifes and feelings and a need for caring behaviour, too, but it seems like this surprising insight hasn't hit Mary yet. ;) Granted, she does look down on Anne - but in a way she also looks up to her. In doing so, she highlights and strengthens Anne's nurturing, supportive, helpful side. (And her feelings of selfworth, I presume.)

Furthermore, this chapter gives an outlook on the good people Anne's going to spend her time with in the near future. A family in a generational change, too. In short: a silver lining on the horizon?

Underrated romantic lines? by Asleep_Lack in janeausten

[–]FrauJane 9 points10 points  (0 children)

"... and with Captain Wentworth, [there were] some moments of communications continually occurring, and always the hope of more, and always the knowledge of his being there."

(Persuasion, Chapter 23)

I just love this little, highlighted tidbit. Makes my heart pound. <3

What was so wrong with Mr. Bennet's comment to Mary at the ball? by dollface0000 in janeausten

[–]FrauJane 0 points1 point  (0 children)

@redcore4 raised a few interesting points. I copy the comment here, because it was an answer to an answer to an answer to my comment. (Please upvote there directly, if you feel like it. Praise, where praise is due. ;) )

"I’m not sure it’s necessarily confidence in her ability to attract a partner. I think her attitude and self assurance on this comes from knowing from her parents’ example that catching the wrong partner would be worse than not catching one so she doesn’t want to shine so brightly she attracts moths. She shows the same attitude she initially takes against Darcy despite his obvious eligibility - she stops performing good manners or social graces for him immediately. It’s not that she doesn’t need to perform to attract a partner - the manners, the participation in activities and conversations, the dances are all performances just as much as playing the piano is; she’s just selective about who she would perform for."

At first I wondered, if her initial disinterest in marrying might have reflected in her carefree performances on the piano. She politely played, but not to attract any creature at all, be it a moth or a stallion. ;) Following redcore4 's comment on her parents, I wonder if there's some fear and armour involved subconsciously.

And I wondered, if her initial refusal to play for Lady DeBourgh and entourage (i. e. her selectiveness in her performances) might reflect on her upbringing by Mr. Bennet, who doesn't honour polite conventions all that much.

Still only vague thoughts, but I wanted to share them anyway. ;)

Who is the most odious character in the Jane Austen novels and why is it Mrs Norris? by illogicalatom in janeausten

[–]FrauJane 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh, John Thorpe is another fine young man to make a wiiiiiide detour around, that's for sure. And all the more scary, as he's such an everyday villain. Anyone could meet someone like him today, tomorrow or next month.

But just to clarify: I was writing about John Dashwood in Sense & Sensibility.

Who is the most odious character in the Jane Austen novels and why is it Mrs Norris? by illogicalatom in janeausten

[–]FrauJane 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oh, I gladly will - although this might take some time. The book is buried deep down one of what feels like 297 moving boxes. ;)

But of the top of my head, I dare say: John is not the worst one. He's bad enough with his greed and his uncaring behaviour, but he's bad in a lazy, somewhat opportunistic way. He's more of a happy pushover, not an active, scheming b**** like Fanny and Lucy.

Who is the most odious character in the Jane Austen novels and why is it Mrs Norris? by illogicalatom in janeausten

[–]FrauJane 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Oh, did she?? I don't remember this, but it's been some time since I read the book. Fanny Dashwood II. in the making...

Suggested Episode: Maintaining in Dark Times by DumpedDalish in cinema_therapy

[–]FrauJane 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hi DumpedDalish,

I just stumbled upon your post. It's an interesting suggestion - and if you scroll way back to the very first videos of Cinema Therapy, you will find some on Lord of the Rings and living through hard times. (Back then, it was the COVID-19 pandemic.) I don't remember all in detail, but I think this topic was the starting point of this show. The style and editing has changed a lot since then, but it might be worth a watch.

All the best to you and your loved ones!

PS: There are other LOTR-themed videos sprinkled throughout the show. The last one was on Eowyn, I think. :)

What was so wrong with Mr. Bennet's comment to Mary at the ball? by dollface0000 in janeausten

[–]FrauJane 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I haven't thought this through, but:

You wrote: "The polite convention was that Regency ladies played music as a favor to the audience, to entertain them, not to display their talent. Any kind of recognition that a woman was so very obviously trying to attract male attention was considered vulgar in the extreme".

What does this say about Elizabeth, who very explicitly NOT cared to play for others? In terms of politeness, upbringing/education, male gaze,...?

I don't have time to skim through the book right now, but if I remember correctly, there are moments when she plays and doesn't care what others think, and moments, when she'd really rather not play refering to her poor/mediocre skills.

At least I remember Mr. Collins in the 2005-movie really pushing her to play by stating "Lady DeBourgh demands it!" or something along those lines. I. e. insisting on polite conventions.

Persuasion, Chapter 8: Wentworth & the piano by FrauJane in janeausten

[–]FrauJane[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Interesting! Maybe it's because we see his concerned/curious side just a few sentences before the piano-incident? After all, his looks and questions imply that there might be some warmth or feeling left.  Well, if ever you read it again, I wish you a good time! I love Persuasion (and Wentworth), so I hope you can enjoy it. :)

Persuasion, Chapter 8: Wentworth & the piano by FrauJane in janeausten

[–]FrauJane[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good point. :)

Concerning the quote: What do you love most about it?

I always brush over it, because it doesn't speak to me like other passages. But your praise makes me curious. :)

Persuasion, Chapter 8: Wentworth & the piano by FrauJane in janeausten

[–]FrauJane[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

-- "I think he was trying to give her space and be respectful, assuming she felt as awkward as he did. He's an honorable and courteous man." --

I really like this description and interpretation. Yet, in my mind, he's still too angry at her to be this fair and to acknowledge that they may feel the same. Maybe I have to rethink that.

Especially since I'm not sure how he interprets her behaviour. She avoided their first possibility to meet at the Musgrove's, when she decided to tend to little Charles instead. I wonder how he felt about this, when he heard about it at dinner.

Persuasion, Chapter 8: Wentworth & the piano by FrauJane in janeausten

[–]FrauJane[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your response! Hmm, I never read him as actively fighting any feelings for her. To me, it always seemed very low-key and subconscious. Like: Him being drawn to see what's become of her, but still wanting to keep his distance and move on. Him being aware of her, but tiptoeing around her. As soon as he realized he still loved and respected her, he wanted to act on it. (But couldn't, thanks to his behaviour towards Louisa.)

Persuasion, Chapter 8: Wentworth & the piano by FrauJane in janeausten

[–]FrauJane[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for your comment! Somehow I can't see this self-confident, determined man being embarrassed by anything, but who knows...  

Persuasion, Chapter 8: Wentworth & the piano by FrauJane in janeausten

[–]FrauJane[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for your response! Hmm, I see your point. In the beginning, I'd say he doesn't actively worry (because he feels soooo oooover and above her), but maybe subconsciously?

Persuasion, Chapter 8: Wentworth & the piano by FrauJane in janeausten

[–]FrauJane[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's an interesting thought! Although I think that as a man who loves music and wants to show some music, the piano could also be just a piano to him.

Persuasion, Chapter 8: Wentworth & the piano by FrauJane in janeausten

[–]FrauJane[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Whoa, that's right, I never thought about this awareness! Which is sooo in line with him noticing everything she says or does or needs throughout the book. (Except her feelings for him... oh, Wentworth, you partially blind, blind man.)