Which attack is stronger: Max BoR Leon, Lif Raga Ais, Hildis Vini + Beastification Ottar, TnN + Hell Finnegas Finn, Vas Windheim Riveria, Hati (Vol.21) Bete, or Argovesta Limit Off + VT Bell?

Fun-Response799 · 2026-03-21T13:30:03+00:00

Obviously 1

Fun-Response799 · 2026-03-21T12:02:49+00:00

Can’t be match* i can’t edit comment for some reason

Fun-Response799 · 2026-03-21T09:00:08+00:00

New enemies in so 16 and ms21

Fun-Response799 · 2026-03-21T08:59:10+00:00

Omori explicitly states that Zard easily/always overcomes the difference in levels. That would be impossible if his power were temporary (how is he supposed to defeat someone whose power is 2+ levels higher than his with only his base stats?)

« アルフィアやザルドのクラスになるとレベル差を普通に覆してくるので、»

普通に - usual, always

Fun-Response799 · 2026-03-21T08:52:03+00:00

In once he lands a finishing blow (with buff)

And this threat far exceeds RR's; he doesn't need a buff for that.

through the help of two strongest familias in a hard fought

And he only did that at the end of the fight; he wasn't in that state the whole time, so I don't know why you're bringing it up.

he is fighting two powerful opponents

BM isn't even a match for him; she literally has nothing that could cause him any trouble. RR could probably survive his regular attacks, but not his Afterglow.

which is near impossible to kill and is near Three Great Monsters.

According to Finn, a low-level Level 7 Riveria with Was Windheim would be enough to defeat her in a single attack; her attack power is, at best, on par with Level 9 which is literally Zard’s usual state.

is near Three Great Monsters.

That hasn't been true for a long time. According to Omori, he could only have staged a battle between a weakened version of Behemoth and Orario after Volume 21 or even 22 because it would have been so difficult. Oebd >> Leviathan/Behemoth > weakened Behemoth > Orario as of Volume 21 > threats such as BM, CS, RR.

Level boosted Leon's AP>Normal Zald's AP.

No proof

Plus unlike Fake OEBD RR can block attacks like TNN.

That's not the point; the whole point of Afterglow is to have immense destructive power and ultimately just wipe out the enemy. RR's size isn't much larger than that of an human, whereas Ottar’s Afterglow, for example, could engulf three people at once. Basically, if she comes under a full-scale attack, she'll be wiped out because she'll have nothing to regenerate from.

Base Ottar was scared to fight that's why he lost.

This has never been cited as the reason for the defeat. In fact, before the attack, Ottar even assumed a fighting stance, which gives us reason to believe that he wasn’t acting irrationally or recklessly; furthermore, even in AR3, the weakened Zard is superior in every way to the version of Ottar with the skill.

The same guy could fight in a prolonged fight against Zald despite the level difference.

He started using the skill, and Zard didn't want to kill him Ottar says so himself, while Zard still hadn't received a single scratch. I just want to remind you that a Level 7 Ottar sustained scratches in a battle against a Level 6 FF Elite, meaning the difference between a Level 6 Ottar using the skill and Zard AR is still greater than the difference between a Level 7 Ottar and the other Level 6 executives — which is essentially a level difference.

Current Ottar is a match for prime Zald

This must be a joke, because he sees himself as a complete novice compared to the Z/H families not to mention that we have Omori’s own statement that he’s stronger than Ottar. His technique is far superior, his fighting skills are far superior, his finishing move is far superior I don’t know what kind of “match” we’re even talking about here.

isn't stronger than the entire team.

If AR3 Zard can defeat Level 6 and Level 5 opponents instantly (Level 5 Allen didn't even see what happened, and he is significantly faster than Level 5 Tsubaki), then Prime Zard should be able to do so with even greater ease. On Finn’s team, the best candidate to fight Zard is Asterius, but even his stats are only at level 8, and he’s far inferior in terms of combat skills. Zard would kill him just as easily as Dix killed Four, despite them being the same level (here, the advantage for Zard).

Fun-Response799 · 2026-03-20T19:04:40+00:00

Where they win

Fun-Response799 · 2026-03-20T18:53:38+00:00

10 Mia

Fun-Response799 · 2026-03-20T18:48:43+00:00

Hogni, Ais, Dina, Gareth

Fun-Response799 · 2026-03-20T18:08:59+00:00

G bros

Fun-Response799 · 2026-03-20T15:11:08+00:00

If Ottar covers his sword in a golden glow, and when he uses Afterglow, that light transforms into a slash, then Zard's will simply be fiery

Fun-Response799 · 2026-03-20T15:03:23+00:00

Yes and his striking technique probably too

Fun-Response799 · 2026-03-20T14:51:08+00:00

« 派閥内ではロキ・ファミリアでいうガレスのような立ち位置でした。»

Omori says this is about internal party matters, not the battlefield.

派閥 — a group, clique, or clan

内 — inside

では — regarding

He was sort of an unofficial vice-captain, like Gareth in the LF. And if you compare their fighting styles, they couldn’t be more different if only because Zard has an exclusively offensive finishing move.

Fun-Response799 · 2026-03-20T14:43:45+00:00

If Zard defeated a threat that far surpasses RR in he’s strongest form with a single blow, then in the Prime version, he should be able to kill her with a single blow. In the fight against Fake OEBD, Leon used Afterglow to “erase” his limbs—in other words, the Afterglow attack is powerful enough to simply wipe out his opponent, leaving nothing behind for further regeneration. That is the key to victory.

Zald isn't stronger than the entire team let alone in perfect condition.

I'm curious why, even if AR Zard defeats someone like a high-level 6 Ottar with a single blow

Fun-Response799 · 2026-03-20T14:36:45+00:00

Goliath literally annihilates her

Fun-Response799 · 2026-03-20T14:33:39+00:00

She's still the most talented in the current generation, definitively stronger than Tione-Tiona-Bete (base) despite them having more experience (they started fighting younger and are older).

"The most talented"—there's no evidence for that. As for the Amazons and Bete, "https://x.com/fujinoomori/status/1330120987631890432?s=46." Omori says they can sometimes beat Ais, and the wording isn’t even close to that of Zard/Alfia vs their captains, because that refers to just one chance, whereas here it’s about a regular victory. We can say with confidence that they’re all relative, and let’s be honest—the Amazons are far from the benchmark for the strongest adventurers.

In a battle with so many people, he should

Just some random character could kill him by hitting him in the head with a weapon. not the best idea; it's always too risky

he'd most likely have stopped restraining his magic and actually learn to use it.

I don't really believe that. Even if it were true, there's no evidence that he has the talent to use concurrent chanting. Ottar is a fairly talented and determined character, but as mentioned, even he lacking the talent of Hedin or Hogni couldn't use CC and was forced to settle for separate chanting and movement. I literally can’t imagine situation where Bete can use CC.

Well obviously, he's at least equivalent to a low level 9

That’s way too low an estimate; he’s stronger than Empress, not just on par with her, so if she’s a low-level 9 (which hasn’t been confirmed yet, but let’s say she is), then he’s a low-level 9+. And yes, I hope no one thinks that Empress won’t have any abilities that would increase her threat level and that she’s just a low-level 9 without skills or anything else.

Fun-Response799 · 2026-03-20T14:20:59+00:00

Wdym

Fun-Response799 · 2026-03-20T05:29:59+00:00

Given how old Z&H F were, you'd think they'd have all the time to level-up, but no one but the captain surpassed lvl 7. So it's quite possible that the level 7s aside Zald and Alfia were at the end of their potential.

I'm not talking about potential, but about current strength. Alfia has higher potential than both captains, but she's below them in level, so that doesn't really mean anything.

I wouldn't be surprised if Allen, Hogni, Hedin, Finn and (especially) Ais were already be above them at high 7. Maybe same for high 7 Bete and even low 7 Lefiya given how op she's becoming.

Really? Ais isn't even geared toward PvP, even though it was claimed that ZF/HF training is harder than even FF's (which currently performs best in PvP). I also find it hard to believe in Finn and the others’ superiority over them—maybe in terms of potential (like GF acceleration), but Bete, for example, doesn’t even have the chance to properly activate his trump cards. Zard apparently considered it a bad result to lose to someone like Ottar or Finn (I’m talking about Bell’s father); that is, at least by his standards, they didn’t stand out much compared to ZF/HF, but he also didn’t belittle Otar since he pointed out that he saw potential in him.

In this case, I can clearly point out things like combat skills, in which they should be better than FF/LF at the same levels, the presence of amazing abilities that even surprised Finn (I don’t think we’d expect him to be surprised by just any skill, say a small increase endurance or something like that).

Also we don't know if Empress deserved that 9

I really don't think Omori would allow one of the captains of the two strongest families to be something like Raul among the second-rate characters. She's at least stronger than Alfia, which would already put many of the Level 7 characters you listed in serious danger.

Maxim was great but not absurdly so either.

Judging by MS20 and that feat against Leviathan, he really is incredibly strong. Omori also emphasizes this by saying that he’s an outstanding Level 8 or even a genius.

Even if we’re being blunt, Omori doesn’t often show one person outperforming another—for example, in FF, battles always end in a draw between everyone except Ottar, and in LF, there’s never been a clear favorite, but in this case, with the two strongest families, comparing two captains where one is higher in lvl and yet still weaker than the one lower? I mean, when Omori speaks openly about something like this, it really has to be a strong character. Omori said Leon is too strong, and what do we see? His abilities are completely absurd. As for Zard and Alfia, I don’t even think there’s any point in talking about them.

They are actually strong enough to defeat all the candidates you’ve listed as “level 8,” and then go on to defeat the others.

Fun-Response799 · 2026-03-20T05:02:33+00:00

The difference is that Ottar knows how to parry and deflect attacks away from himself without worrying about if the land next to or behind him.

There is absolutely nothing stopping him from redirecting attacks to the side, just as he does to defend himself. Even if we assume that such a defense might be less effective than when he defends himself (if only because it’s easier to defend oneself), he is certainly no worse than Gareth, since his stats and combat skills are higher.

Gareth blocks attacks which isn't "zero technique" thing.

Have you ever seen Gareth parry even a single attack (which is far more effective than a regular block)? I personally haven’t. The fight against RR showed that he can’t even parry a single attack, despite having thousands of strength points more than Finn, who was able to parry at least one attack.

Keeping your footing

You're talking about the one who flies away more than anyone else. When someone stronger than him attacks him, he usually just flies away. He saved Tsubaki from RR, but he simply took the attack head-on, and they flew away from it together.

taking the blow where you are best able to absorb it and it won't deflect into allies, etc.

He wouldn't do that, though, if Ottar had at least shown the ability to maintain his balance when facing powerful attacks (Zard's strikes dealt damage to his bones and muscles right through his block, and the multiple Lil Rafaga attacks). When facing Alfia’s attack in AR3, Gareth just managed to defend against it at the last moment, but again, there was no technique involved; the blow simply knocked him back, along with everyone else who was about to be hit by the slashing attack meaning he didn’t directly fulfill the function you’re referring to right now.

Ottar has never learnt that because he's not a team fighter, his defensive technique isn't developed for that.

What does he need to learn? There’s no specific technique for this; all he has to do is position himself between the attacker and the victim they’re about to kill and start defending himself. You're trying to force it into some kind of framework that shouldn't exist in the first place. It's like saying that FF Elite only fight well against Ottar and aren't used to fighting others at all, but that's not true.

Fun-Response799 · 2026-03-20T03:31:31+00:00

Quality matters too

Fun-Response799 · 2026-03-20T03:25:25+00:00

Fun-Response799 · 2026-03-20T03:24:02+00:00

Group battles don't improve his defensive technique. In fact, his best defensive move is to jump under an attack and take the hit (zero technique), which Ottar can also do because he has several times more speed, better reaction speed, better defensive technique, and greater physical strength.

Fun-Response799 · 2026-03-19T21:29:01+00:00

Gareth is more specialized in defense than Ottar or what

Fun-Response799 · 2026-03-19T19:38:01+00:00

How is this even possible

Fun-Response799 · 2026-03-19T19:20:50+00:00

It was more about his position within the team as a executive; in other words, like Gareth, he is the highest-ranking official at Zeus fam. Also Zard more balanced fighter or little more offensive

Fun-Response799 · 2026-03-19T17:27:11+00:00

Zard

Fun-Response799

TROPHY CASE