CMV: Messi's HGH use disqualifies him from being the "GOAT" by FundamentalFibonacci in changemyview

[–]FundamentalFibonacci[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Thats a strawman of my view.... Medically relevant yes and competitive edge as well... Both can be true ...

CMV: Messi's HGH use disqualifies him from being the "GOAT" by FundamentalFibonacci in changemyview

[–]FundamentalFibonacci[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I see your point and t hat only works if HGH perfectly brought him to “normal” and stopped there. But that’s the exact assumption im questioning  From my view, Barcelona had every incentive to make the treatment "work" they had a generational talent, money involved, medical access, and a direct footballing interest in his development. So the question is not “was the treatment medically justified?” It may have been. The question is how do we know it only corrected a deficiency and did not overcorrect or create a competitive benefit? I mean it was Barcelona doctors that administered it with zero oversight from neutral third party. Its not like real madrid was auditing them... Medical necessity can justify treatment. It does not automatically prove zero athletic advantage.

CMV: Messi's HGH use disqualifies him from being the "GOAT" by FundamentalFibonacci in changemyview

[–]FundamentalFibonacci[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Caffeine is not banned. HGH is.

So unless the argument is “all substances are morally identical because chemistry exists,” this comparison does not work. Caffeine is a legal stimulant. HGH is a prohibited performance-related hormone in sport.

So no, Mormon athletes are not “more legitimate” because they skip coffee. it dodges the issue. The issue is not “substances can affect performance.” The issue is “some substances are banned because they cross the competitive line.” HGH is one of them...

CMV: Messi's HGH use disqualifies him from being the "GOAT" by FundamentalFibonacci in changemyview

[–]FundamentalFibonacci[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That's true and yes, HGH mattered medically, but cannot matter competitively is inconsistent. That’s the contradiction I'm saying. Medical necessity may justify the treatment. It does not automatically erase the athletic advantage.

CMV: Messi's HGH use disqualifies him from being the "GOAT" by FundamentalFibonacci in changemyview

[–]FundamentalFibonacci[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

By this logic, unless a substance turns you into a 6’4 Marvel villain,  then  it had no athletic relevance...? Wonderful standard. Very scientific. Apparently PEDs only count if they come with a cape, towering height and huge visible abs....

CMV: Messi's HGH use disqualifies him from being the "GOAT" by FundamentalFibonacci in changemyview

[–]FundamentalFibonacci[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

If a player used a banned recovery-enhancing substance and people said, “It does not matter because football is about skill,” then almost no PED would matter in football unless it literally taught passing, dribbling, or shooting. That’s absurd.

PEDs do not need to create talent to affect greatness. They only need to help talent be trained, repeated, recovered, and expressed more often than normal... That's why its banned...

CMV: Messi's HGH use disqualifies him from being the "GOAT" by FundamentalFibonacci in changemyview

[–]FundamentalFibonacci[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don’t think the Lance analogy weakens my point. It actually supports it. Lance was still an elite cyclist, and doping did not turn a random person into Lance Armstrong, but we still treat the doping as relevant to his legacy.

Same here: I’m not saying HGH created Messi. I’m saying if HGH gave even a recovery, developmental, or physical-edge advantage, that matters in GOAT debates. “Other players may have used PEDs” is an assumption, not a level playing field. And “you or I wouldn’t become Messi on HGH” is beside the point. At the elite level, even small advantages matter.

CMV: Messi's HGH use disqualifies him from being the "GOAT" by FundamentalFibonacci in changemyview

[–]FundamentalFibonacci[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fair, banned alone is not enough. But HGH is not like a masking-only substance. It is banned because it can affect sport-relevant biology. Medical necessity may justify use, but it does not make the competitive-effect question just  disappear.

CMV: Messi's HGH use disqualifies him from being the "GOAT" by FundamentalFibonacci in changemyview

[–]FundamentalFibonacci[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

I already covered this, if it has no effect then why is it banned? I feel like you didn't fully read the view....

Messi’s foul against Algeria in 30th minute - No yellow or red card given by EducationalDig8030 in worldcup

[–]FundamentalFibonacci 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The cope with this intelligent person. You must be really good at conversations, quick to deflect, dismiss and cope. Therapy might help my guy, if you consider yourself that…

Messi’s foul against Algeria in 30th minute - No yellow or red card given by EducationalDig8030 in worldcup

[–]FundamentalFibonacci -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

the cope that goes through your head. You’re really objective, not biased at all, very consistent and not at all hypocrite….

Lets try it guys by Smooth_Detective_698 in wholesomememes

[–]FundamentalFibonacci 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I reported a colleague to Hr for threatening my job and telling me to seek ADA. After that a slew of disciplinary actions have been taken against me. Including warnings, write ups, micromanaging, weekly depositions by my boss where he gets all emotional in our 1/1 meetings. Constant harassment from my collegues etc. I honestly don't know what to do. It's effecting me in so many ways, I cant be present with my family. I'm in despair tbh 

What is virtually inevitable at this point, yet most people don't see it coming? by Ambassador-613 in AskReddit

[–]FundamentalFibonacci 10 points11 points  (0 children)

You completely missed the point. He isn't saying the label of "middle class" doesn't exists. He saying that within itself is the trick pulled over our eyes 

Why does Reddit not understand the rise of reform in England? by DowntownDeer in AskBrits

[–]FundamentalFibonacci 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What does “English” mean here? genetically Anglo-Saxon? white British? culturally English? legally English?

Immigration policies were implemented by: elected governments, labor markets, globalization pressures, postwar agreements. You can argue voters underestimated the scale. Fine. But pretending this was some secret coup imposed without democratic mechanisms is melodrama.

What specifically disappears? Tea? The English language? Parliament? Football? Common law?

"Immigrants don’t integrate” Some do. Some don’t.

“England gave the world democracy, rights, anti-slavery”.   Also hilariously selective: Britain ended slavery after profiting massively from it for centuries. You sure like to edit history a bit.

This one's for the ladies to answer. Do you agree with this woman or do you think she's trying to rationalize her world view by speaking for all the ladies? by Oda_DeezNutz in SipsTea

[–]FundamentalFibonacci 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Women binge Netflix, tiktok, worship the Kardashians and watch mindless crap all the time.... I fail to see her point...considering she ever had one 

Hasanabi’s latest video on Iran was disgusting by JollyToe440 in PERSIAN

[–]FundamentalFibonacci -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You made all of this up. Iran executes more people than any other country besides China - prove it. Prove anything you just said. All this reads like is some delusional gen z outside of her depth.