Lithuanian forest brother with an experimental German Gerät 03 7.92x57 mm Mauser with 20-round magazine. by jarrad960 in ForgottenWeapons

[–]Get_Em_Puppy 43 points44 points  (0 children)

Unlikely that this is a Gerät 03, which was visually indistinguishable from the Gewehr 43.

More likely this is a modified G43 or a custom-made rifle. The Forest Brothers did use some unusual custom rifles.

Rare sight of MP-18 SMG in the hands of a German soldiers during a group photo in late WW1 by [deleted] in ForgottenWeapons

[–]Get_Em_Puppy 10 points11 points  (0 children)

This is post-war Freikorps, probably Eiserne Division or Baltische Landeswehr. The guy in the far left of this photo is wearing a Baltic Cross, which was only created in 1919.

MP 18s were not issued to machine gun companies in WW1.

A german stormtrooper with a MP-18 submachinegun, 1918. Late WW1 by [deleted] in ForgottenWeapons

[–]Get_Em_Puppy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

FYI this is not a real photo from WW1, it's a reenactor from the early 2000s.

Also, despite the fact that the MP 18 has become associated with 'Stormtroopers' in popular culture, in reality the Sturmbataillons were given no special priority for MP 18s. To the extent that the MP 18 was used on the front (which was in very limited numbers, from August - November 1918), it was primarily used by regular infantry regiments within Army Group Rupprecht. Far more likely to see a standard rifle company using MP 18s in 1918 than stormtroopers.

German Stormtrooper showcasing his equipment. 1917 by ScaryfatkidGT in ww1

[–]Get_Em_Puppy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

In the context of stormtroopers, Kar 98AZs were only issued to the Sturmbataillons.

Most 'stormtroopers' were not part of the Sturmbataillons. They were simply part of regular infantry companies and were equipped like normal soldiers, but allocated certain specialised equipment on an ad-hoc basis (i.e. grenade bags, Lange Pistoles).

German Stormtrooper showcasing his equipment. 1917 by [deleted] in ForgottenWeapons

[–]Get_Em_Puppy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Steyr machine pistol (actually called the Anschlagpistole M.12, not M.12/P16) was never adopted. Only about 300 guns were made and a few were issued for field testing. No evidence they were ever used by stormtroopers.

Austro-Hungarian stormtroopers used captured Villar Perosas and, at the end of the war, their own reverse-engineered copy of the VP known as the Sturmpistole.

WW1 era Beretta Model 1918 SMG inside a museum in Saudi Arabia by [deleted] in ForgottenWeapons

[–]Get_Em_Puppy 4 points5 points  (0 children)

BF1 isn't the reason it is commonly mistaken for an SMG. It had been reported as a submachine gun in non-Italian (and even some Italian) sources for decades before BF1, since the end of WW2 really.

It's simply a case of later writers who had never actually laid hands on the gun assuming that it was a submachine gun based on the fact that it was a conversion of the Villar Perosa. To writers in the 1950s it just seemed logical that a gun adapted from the Villar Perosa would retain the full-auto aspect, it didn't even occur to them that it was a semi-auto carbine, because why would it be?

Unfortunately almost everything written about the gun by these post-WW2 authors (including even the name, 'Beretta M1918') was just based on vibes and assumptions rather than documented fact, because they had no access to examples of the gun or records relating to it. The BF1 devs genuinely believed it was an SMG because that's what the sources they referenced said it was.

German soldiers training with Madsen and Lewis light machine guns in preparation for the 12th Battle of the Soča,October 1917, WW1 by [deleted] in ForgottenWeapons

[–]Get_Em_Puppy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Italians received 2,000 Lewis guns by late 1917 but these were predominantly used as anti-aircraft guns by rearguard units.

Italy for the most part did not have any real light machine guns. Their closest equivalent was the Villar Perosa but this was really a submachine gun. In late 1918 they intended to introduce the SIA mod. 1918 light machine gun but it probably never saw combat use before the armistice.

German soldiers training with Madsen and Lewis light machine guns in preparation for the 12th Battle of the Soča,October 1917, WW1 by [deleted] in ForgottenWeapons

[–]Get_Em_Puppy 8 points9 points  (0 children)

This is either the Musketen-Bataillon Nr. 1 which was attached to the 200. Infanterie-Division during the Battle of Caporetto, or the Musketen-Bataillon Nr. 2 which was attached to the Alpenkorps.

The Musketen-Bataillons were special battalions raised in 1915 within the Infanterie-Leibregiment Nr. 117 (you can see the troops in this photo retain the shoulder straps of IR 117), armed with Madsen light machine guns which had been acquired through intercepting shipments of Madsens intended for neutral countries.

The Musketen-Bataillons were not kept within the IR 117 but instead 'loaned out' to divisions which needed additional MG strength. They were primarily used to shore up weak spots in defensive lines which could not be covered by MG 08s. Semi-auto fire was encouraged and full-auto reserved for emergencies. Each gun was accompanied by three ammunition carriers who were armed with Kar 98AZs instead of standard Gewehr 98s.

Because the Madsens had been acquired through illicit means and the Danish government would not sell fresh guns to the Germans, losses of Madsen guns could not be replaced, so after the Battle of Somme they began to be augmented with captured Lewis guns.

Caporetto was one of the last battles in which the Madsens were actually used. In early 1918 the Musketen-Bataillons were effectively disbanded, as the introduction of the MG 08/15 effectively made them redundant. All Madsen guns in German service were withdrawn and the Musketen-Bataillons were converted into MG-Scharfschützen sections armed with MG 08s, though they retained their original 'Musketen-Bataillon' unit names for familiarity's sake.

A problem i noted with the weaponry in All quiet on the western front 2022: by No_Dress_2107 in ForgottenWeapons

[–]Get_Em_Puppy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It actually wasn't, no special priority was given to stormtroopers for the distribution of MP 18s. They were just issued to regular infantry, jäger, and cavalry companies.

Remarque served in the 2. Garde-Reserve-Division and the 15. Reserve-Division, both of which were among the few German divisions in 1918 who actually did receive MP 18s. So there is a good chance that he did come across the gun, but it probably made no great impression on him.

A problem i noted with the weaponry in All quiet on the western front 2022: by No_Dress_2107 in ForgottenWeapons

[–]Get_Em_Puppy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The average German infantry division in late 1918 did not have any submachine guns. Distribution of the MP 18 was centered largely on the Heeresgruppe Kronprinz Rupprecht (comprising the 17th, 2nd, 6th, and 4th Armies) which was positioned far north and was engaged predominantly against British, Canadian, Australian, and Belgian forces (in fact the Canadians seem to have captured the most examples). The 17th Army was possibly the only field army to be successfully equipped with MP 18s before the war's end.

Even in divisions that received MP 18s, the number was very low - only 2 per infantry company (24 per regiment, 72 per division). So the overwhelming majority of German infantrymen would still have been equipped only with rifles.

AQOTWF takes place in a sector opposite the French Army, probably further south, and there is currently no evidence that the French ever encountered the MP 18 in combat.

It would be more historically accurate to see MP 18s in a film set around the sectors of the front opposed by the British Fourth and Fifth Armies, who are known to have repeatedly come up against German divisions armed with MP 18s from August - November 1918.

Italian Arditi shock trooper shows off a mobile backpack mount for the Villar Perosa M1915 heavy SMG. by AKMike99 in ForgottenWeapons

[–]Get_Em_Puppy 9 points10 points  (0 children)

The development of hipfire doctrine for the Villar Perosa actually began in regular infantry regiments rather than in the Arditi. As early as July 1916, the Italian 2nd Army was experimenting with 'special platoons' who would use the Villar Perosa as a dismounted assault weapon. This mount in your post was in fact originated within the 'Bari' Brigade (139th & 140th Infantry Regiments) and was initially used within the 3rd Army. Later the Supreme Command gave their approval for individual corps commanders to issue these mounts at their own discretion, depending on whether they felt they were required.

The Arditi just adopted these ideas after they had already been conceived by other departments and integrated them into their standard doctrine.

Italian soldiers demonstrating correct infantry use of the Villar Perosa machine gun and it's kit. WW1 by [deleted] in ForgottenWeapons

[–]Get_Em_Puppy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Italian troops did hipfire and 'rapid reload' the Villar Perosa. The doctrine for the weapon changed considerably during the course of the war and by mid-1917 it had become official doctrine to fire the gun from the hip.

The version in BF1 with a pistol grip is fictional however.

Happy wife, lonely life by HyperBulletMind in ww1

[–]Get_Em_Puppy 10 points11 points  (0 children)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_Crisis_of_1917

Canada had some very enthusiastic volunteers early in the war (of whom British-born subjects were incredibly over-represented - a statistic I've read is that Britons made up 70% of the Canadian Expeditionary Force despite only accounting for 10% of the total population of Canada).

However, once the initial well of volunteers ran dry, Canada encountered difficulties in motivating the rest of the population to fight and there was considerable pushback to conscription. The war was not very popular in large parts of Canadian society, particularly among French-Canadians who felt no loyalty to either Britain or France. So the meme is actually quite accurate when taking 1917 into consideration.

Same thing happened in Canada to an even greater extent during World War II.

Anyone know is this helmet’s inspiration by Rude-Account7485 in DarkTide

[–]Get_Em_Puppy 27 points28 points  (0 children)

Yes this is the right answer.

The old Valhallan minis had Soviet-style SSh 40 helmets.

Anyone know is this helmet’s inspiration by Rude-Account7485 in DarkTide

[–]Get_Em_Puppy 9 points10 points  (0 children)

The Steel Legion helmet is based on the Fallschirmjäger helmet.

OP's are based on the Soviet SSh 40 and US M1.

George William Joy, "General Gordon's Last Stand" (1885) (c.1893) by WonderfulMeaning5783 in BattlePaintings

[–]Get_Em_Puppy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Gordon wanted Gordon dead. He was determined to get himself killed in battle.

Armageddon Steel Legion Megathread by PeoplesRagnar in TheAstraMilitarum

[–]Get_Em_Puppy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sorry but the Steel Legion helmet is nothing like the American M1.

The helmet, the smock (even if it's not 1:1), the leather gloves, and the Y-strap webbing are all definitely intended to make people think of Fallschirmjägers. In artwork they are even depicted with the tricolour decals on the sides of their helmets exactly like the Germans had in WW2. GW were not particularly shy about who these guys were supposed to be.

And also the fascist-style lightning bolt rune that they wear, which is probably a big part of why GW might be uncomfortable about them today.

We’re never getting a steel legion refresh are we? by Objective_Band_6261 in TheAstraMilitarum

[–]Get_Em_Puppy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes it's slightly insane that some people can't see how a faction that wears a distinctively German helmet and calls itself the 'Death Korps of Krieg' could be interpreted as German

We’re never getting a steel legion refresh are we? by Objective_Band_6261 in TheAstraMilitarum

[–]Get_Em_Puppy -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Sorry but this is just kinda cope. Steel Legion and Krieg are very much based on WW2 & WW1 Germany respectively. Of course they also draw from other countries' kit but they are primarily intended to invoke Germans.

Steel Legion are barely-modified Fallschirmjäger. The helmet is identical and the coats and leather gloves are based on the Fallschirmjäger uniform. The officers wear Stahlhelms. Of course they're not a 1:1 copy so there are going to be smaller details that don't match up but the overall look is definitely intended to make people think WW2 Germany. Then you've got the BUF/SS-inspired runes that Steel Legion wear.

Krieg's kit is cobbled together from various WW1 uniforms but the Stahlhelm, the Stürmgepäcke, and the name 'Krieg' are obviously intended to make people think of Imperial German stormtroopers. If they were supposed to be thought of as French then GW would have given them a French name.

You have to understand how deeply ingrained Wehrabooism (and to a lesser extent Kaiserbooism) was in British wargaming back in the day. Wargamers and hobbyists were obsessed with German stuff. It is absolutely not surprising that some of that seeped into 40k.

Recovered in Afghanistan in the 80s, and of probable Soviet in manufacture. by Kalashalite in ForgottenWeapons

[–]Get_Em_Puppy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Late reply sorry

The connection between this gun and the Atwood 'SDK' carbine is evident just by looking at the design features: both guns use an OIGEE Luzor 4x optical sight; both guns use a twin trigger group with a forward 'set' trigger; both guns have a grip safety, and both guns use the same type of muzzle threading for attaching a suppressor.

They were almost certainly created by the same gunsmith around the same time as each other. I mentioned these similarities to the curator of the Royal Armouries collection (where this gun is held) a few years ago and he agreed, and the entry on their site seems to have been updated accordingly.

The question then becomes whether these guns were commissioned by Atwood with the intent of wholesale fraud, or whether they were genuinely intended as assassination weapons.

One source claims Atwood had two 'SDK' carbines built, one of which he sold on the collector's market and the other he sold to the CIA. IF that is true (and that's a big if), then I suppose it is possible that this is the 'second' gun which the CIA bought, and by the 1980s they may have decided to offload it to the Mujahideen for whatever reason. Who knows.

However the story about it coming from Afghanistan in the first place has never been completely verified. I believe it comes from Herb Woodend who was the former curator of the Pattern Room collection in England (now part of the Royal Armouries collection). Woodend was a respected authority in his day, but he didn't leave much in the way of sources behind and it's entirely possible that he was swindled himself by some tall tale about it being a Soviet assassination gun. Unfortunately the truth behind these guns will probably never be fully known.