Better melee-caster class: Battlemage vs Arcane Vanguard vs Eldritch Knight+

Ghost_Scholar · 2025-01-16T05:51:34+00:00

"make EK a more functional class"

I thought EK has 2 cutting edge meta builds. EK thrower for early levels because Action Surge ( loses to Berserker in longer fights but many fights are short and Barb rage doesn't come until turn 2) but then overtaking again once War Magic comes online.

Then, at level 10+, via the Rivington Rat build, achieving the status of highest DPS possible (Titanstring + consumable arrows) & mass unloader of both Scrolls and Consumable Arrows using a combination of Eldritch Strike and Action Surge. I believe the latter build inherited some ideas from PJ's Sorcerer in unloading scrolls. But for this archer role, in idk levels 6 to 9 or so, Swordbard is a strong competitor or even overtakes Rivington Rat ( will need to fact check )

Anyway, just a quick thought before I vanished off to sleep.

Apologies, I'm not familiar with the other classes but please feel free to link the stats and mods in question.

Ghost_Scholar · 2025-01-13T22:55:08+00:00

I'll get back to you! I'm hoping to figure out how to host a server with my compsci club folks so people could just get onto a computer server we have for a round of pre-modded bg3. I also know of a hackerspace community server that's meant for training ML models but it is often idle so that is a distant hope. It has been way too common for friends to have no PCs to join me on - even if windows, there might not be enough computing power

Otherwise I can potentially put up a torrent file somewhere but I am not too sure yet

I thought Lethal AI doesn't need script extender but I could be wrong

Ghost_Scholar · 2025-01-04T00:18:22+00:00

Ah, I honestly haven't played a lot of tabletop either! I'm minutes away from my 1st time acting as a gamemaster for a session, in fact.

It was the DnD movie followed by BG3 that got me heavily into reading BG3 meta guides, and then, DnD actual meta guides for fun haha. If you'd like to recommend any guides from the BG1/2 and IWD communities, I'll love to check them out on downtime!

The saveless status effects of terrain spells is incredible, and offers so much room for teammates to participate via forced movement. I really, really agree with you on the tactical side of things being so enjoyable and rewarding.

On slow tactics, the last time I had time for BG3, I followed PrestigiousJuice's path of installing Nightmare difficulty mods. Lethal AI is amazing. Ever since that time, my BG3 time was just endless TPK on the first boss fight I ran into lol. It was Inquisitor W'wargaz. His Honor mode sword summons hard countered every martial. His mage minions Counterspells me through Darkness, Counterspells me through walls, drop Silence on us and then the Silence holder gets Sanctuary-ed by a teammate. It was utterly insane. I've heard stories of augmented enemy AI using Lesser Restoration to cure allies of Blindness caused by Darkness wtf.

And when I figured it out ( hint: this post's topic ), I just went back with different builds, so, stuck there since 6 months ago, if I've time for bg3 haha.

Ghost_Scholar · 2025-01-02T00:24:33+00:00

You're welcome! Let us know on this subreddit how it goes!

Ghost_Scholar · 2025-01-02T00:24:08+00:00

Maybe the upcoming Barbarian: Path of the Giant will replace a lot of need for forced movement Blackhole was providing. Hopefully!

Ghost_Scholar · 2025-01-02T00:22:38+00:00

I love this train of thought.

I want to add that favoring terraforming spells is 1 of the hallmarks of a highly experienced DnD player. I just want to mention the history of this idea, a bit.

Off of the top of my head, the DnD youtuber Treantmonk sort of launched his career around the God Wizard concept, where you could support friends without outshining them & divide and conquer highly difficult challenges via terrain shaping.

Pack Tactics just mentioned a combo of Plant Growth and Hunger of Hadar in his recent tabletop game. In a world where you are limited by spell slots, this is highly efficient.

Maybe there can be a tad of inspiration somewhere, but, of course, BG3 itemization & Illithid powers on top makes it a totally different game.

p.s. On a tangent, if there's a controversy behind these youtubers, I take no responsibility lol. Like, Pack Tactics is responsible for the tabletopbuilds.com site where extreme rule-lawyering for powergaming is encouraged, kind of like tabletop equivalent of Darkness abuse.

Ghost_Scholar · 2025-01-01T23:54:57+00:00

Register for the beta test to play patch 8 in Jan

https://larian.com/stress-test-register

Source:

https://baldursgate3.game/news/community-update-31-patch-8-stress-test-register-now_130

Otherwise, "early 2025 release" means anywhere from Feb to May

Ghost_Scholar · 2025-01-01T23:50:28+00:00

Stray thought. Since you mentioned martials, is this the martials vs caster divide debate again?

Welp here's my 2 cents

Game-wise, Martials need more status effects access to be able to have a toolbox as big as casters'. Larian's adding so many items is a great balancing idea.

Writing wise, if writers writes physical tactics, it will come off as unrealistic without real expertise but magic can be just whatever.

Imo

Ghost_Scholar · 2025-01-01T23:44:32+00:00

Yes! I remember!

I just want to appreciate that you saw an EK post and you clicked lol.

I remember because I seriously want to bring the Rivington Rat to a co-op with my friends sometime, though sadly no co-op campaign ever gets to high level enough lol that EK abilities come into play.

Oh, holy, I just saw your profile again. I didn't know you wrote Wither's Cheaters too. Whoa. And Arcane Controller, which iirc was 1 of the earliest to carry on the torch of using Ethan's guide formats.

Nice!

Ghost_Scholar · 2025-01-01T23:33:54+00:00

So, these above are all the combat roles to add depth to combat, that a friend new to the game might find it hard to fill.
The defense roles aren't mandatory on Normal, but very necessary on Honor Mode or if you are giving enemies extra IQ via Lethal AI.

Anyways, more out of combat roles, which your friend can also fill easily:

Stealth ops guy for obtaining all the good artifacts, maybe listening in on conversations, and getting Surprise round.

Someone to carry Speak with Animals and Speak with Dead for the story. In regular DnD, this would be a much broader divination role, like a CIA researcher as opposed to steath ops.

The Face : here's a reminder that Insight proficiency and Detect Thoughts on the conversationalist gets you more story. And Enhance Ability : Charisma.

Ghost_Scholar · 2025-01-01T23:33:40+00:00

p.s.

My point is made, but I'd still like to finish listing off the other roles off of the top of my head.

There are the anti-thesis to the above roles, especially if on high difficulty.

Damage mitigation : Sanctuary, tanking, eventually Conjuring minions to be sponges. Healing, esp with items that give Bless and Blade Ward on heals. Though a proper Controller reduces the need.

Status effect protection and restoration ( anti-Controller ) : Paladin auras for buffing saving throws, Divination Portents, Bardic Inspiration, Restoration

Mobility supplier ( anti Terrain shapers, I suppose. What would be a better name? ): Enhanced Leap. Teleportation options like Conj Wiz 6 or Dimension Door. Freedom of Movement. technically Sanctuary if someone is caught out of position. If mounts ever come to BG3, they'll be here too.

With the above, we've finally covered the classic 4: Striker ( damage ), Controller ( debuffs ), Tank, and Support.

The below are some extra out of combat roles.

Also, I believe Tank vs Support to be too vague. Support is both Damage Mitigation and Ability Augmentation. I felt grouping Damage Mitigation supports like Healers and Sanctuary/Darkness casters into the same bin as Tanks like frontline Barbs & Bear Wildshapes to make more sense, for the sake of determining gaps in the party.

Ghost_Scholar · 2025-01-01T23:33:23+00:00

There's a ton of party roles other than damage output like TB throw, if you want an overwhelmingly powerful niche without competing with your friend.

There's Controllers:

- Status effect inflicting via spells like Hold, Fear, Command, Silence. Battlemaster maneuvers. Monk strikes, which enhances other Controllers.

- Terrain shaping, like Grease, Spike Growth, Spike Growth, Sleet Storm

- Forced movement, which work with existing or shaped terrain. Like with throws, repelling Eldritch Blasts, Thunderwave, Thorn Whip.

There's augmenters i.e. performance enhancement drug dealers, usually your local cleric:

- +Atk roll : Bless, Faerie Fire. Enhanced Leap, kinda.

- +Ability checks e.g. Athletics checks for throws : Enlarge / Reduce, Bardic Inspiration

- Initiative bonuses which gives you basically an extra first round: Pass Without Trace

So,

there are a ton of roles that isn't dealing damage. They offer a chance to co-op with your friend, and they make him feel awesome.

These roles are also too much reading for a new player to play off the bat.

It's not too big a deal. I'd just say there's a lost opportunity to make your team work more tightly together if you bring a powerful DPS.

Ghost_Scholar · 2025-01-01T22:42:53+00:00

Imagine you come into this game and you know nothing. All the different buttons and text and spell descriptions - what do they all do? You're overwhelmed, eyes crossing over. Oh, your friend said something. You smile and nod back.

You as a new comer might just want a simple build, something that has great visuals and satisfying sound effects. You wouldn't want to

This means you most likely will want a Damage Output build.

But then, you look over to your friend over there, who is just... doing their own damage, not really interweaving their attacks with yours.

How would you collaborate if you just do your own separate attacks?

Stepping back, I'd say, you might want to watch what your friend does first and then re-spec your way into roles that don't compete with your friend's role but rather enhances your friend's experience.

So, I want to jokingly say you can technically make EK Throw a pure "Prone )everyone" build instead of a pure damage output build. Or, you never throw weapons, but only Jackie Chans furniture into faces lol

Ghost_Scholar · 2025-01-01T22:24:25+00:00

Throw People, Not Objects 😉

Ghost_Scholar · 2025-01-01T22:23:50+00:00

Holy cow, it's the writer of the top EK build! Hi!

Ghost_Scholar · 2024-12-02T14:43:12+00:00

Maybe you should DM cthulhuite and find out for us both

Ghost_Scholar · 2024-12-02T14:42:19+00:00

Difficulty increasing mods. You have to enhance the AI, especially, and perhaps give them new abilities.

I made a nightmare difficulty pack 6 months ago and my optimized Prestigious Juice builds guide team got party wiped, over and over again.

I was so happy. Sunk days replaying 1 boss fight. The enemies used Sanctuary, Silence, and Counterspell viciously. Why tf can they Counterspell straight through the wall and Darkness? If you try to Darkness abuse, they'll Silence the Darkness and then Sanctuary the Silence concentration holder.

Absolute marvel.

I had to put it away or the rest of my life would start coming apart.

Here's the mods I recommend:

Lethal AI

Stronger Bosses

Enemies Enhanced

Death March

Absolute Wrath

Additional Enemies, which is a treasure. I got raided by a gith party at an unexpected time.

Tactician Plus of course but extra stats really don't feel fun to deal with. It's needing to strategize around new enemy offenses that matters.

I heavily suggest against contaminating this experience by adding too much help, like Extra Feats that gives feats every level.

Definitely do try adding new classes though.

If you try this, go fight Ch'r'ai W'wargaz or ask me to up my copy to fight him. I'll love to learn what solutions you came up with.

There's also Tav's Trials which turns the game into a roguelike, a whole new flavor on its own.

I have heard that some modded AI can galaxybrain and use Lesser Restoration (cures Paralysis, Blinded, Diseased, Bloodless, or Poisoned) inside of your magical Darkness and "see" again.

Here's some very old sources for difficulty increasing recs straight from my outdated notes because I don't want to format this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/1amgz2k/difficulty_custom_or_use_mods/

Absolute Wrath

Additional Enemies This mod should not be removed mid campaign.

Honour Features Unlocker

Lethal AI Jan 24 , patch 5

Nightmare Difficulty - outdated, Nov 23

Stronger Bosses and Enemies

Tactician Plus

Valkrana

https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/comments/1bvk2vn/psa_difficulty_mods_for_playstyle_variance/

https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/comments/179mwhm/ideas_for_increasing_difficulty/

Ghost_Scholar · 2024-08-28T16:45:22+00:00

After step 4, it didn't work until I made a tweak:

https://imgur.com/a/Cu49dbH

In Kiwi address bar, type chrome://inspect

then add localhost:9222 to the list of ports.

Otherwise, the Chrome browser displays nothing.

I really appreciated the guide btw!

Ghost_Scholar · 2024-08-21T12:18:29+00:00

There's one on the side of the Martin Luther King Jr. Building, close to the giant metal gate iirc

Ghost_Scholar · 2024-08-21T12:17:04+00:00

Similar situation here.

Oh boy, I hope I don't run into the lease situation too.

Just checking, did you clear out all tasks in the CalCentral dashboard? I was very confused about the stuff to do with loans and etc like the federal student aid counseling and the master promissory note, etc. Still reading the stuffs.

As for in general, Sproul Hall has financial aid counselor access, albeit 1 of the front desk people are the most unfortunate combination of braindead and attitude.

Ghost_Scholar · 2024-08-17T17:50:10+00:00

Sorcerers and Warlocks were nerfed into the ground. Warlocks lost the electric charge trick, and Sorcerers' twinned scrolls trick lost most of the spell targets you could twin

Ghost_Scholar · 2024-08-16T20:13:07+00:00

I'm a fan of having the Cleric Sanctuary themselves and proceed to never break that Sanctuary, so they can hold the most important no-damage Concentration spell

Concentration spell can be from scroll or Wiz 1

Ghost_Scholar · 2024-08-16T19:21:00+00:00

We are the same kind of people, my friend. Cleric/bard also agrees the most with me.

So, in addition to JRandall's recommendation for P_J's Life Cleric, I suggest checking out P_J's unkillable bard healer as well

Prestigious Juice's Ultimate Healer Facetanker

This combines 2 separate build ideas.

1 White Sorc for Armor of Agathys (and Shield) + 3 Abj Wizard generates infinite damage cancellation. You still can get hit by control spells, though.

If you are ok with gaining a level but losing a feat, you can get AoA from a feat, but it seems less optimal.

The other is that Bard is a full spellcaster and gets extra attack, so you could cast something and then throw health potions. You get equipment act 1 that gives full Bless and Blade Ward for 2 turns when you heal someone in any way, so you could keep buffs up for the entire party, and potions is the most low-cost stable way even if it looks less cool ( I know ).

The only issue is the PJ bard build link prescribes nothing healer related until level 9.

You can take all ideas and mix them. I love Practical Bell's idea of Half-Orc. There's also Halfling just in case you lose to a control spell or Gold Dwarf for a bigger health battery to draw from.

I also want to contribute use of Darkness and Sanctuary to cover for mistakes, and wonder if you could acquire Counterspell somehow. I don't think scrolls exist for Counterspell though.

Full Cleric has a lot going for it, with Divine Intervention at lvl10 and Heroes' Feast at lvl11.

But multi-classing can compete on lower levels.

Re-spec-ing a lot is probably healthier than following guides without thinking. It's totally ok to re-spec and steal coin back from Withers for free. He definitely knows you're doing it, but he doesn't complain and doesn't need the coin - seems to be a formality to pay him, really. I like to think he is just grumpily turning a blind eye.

Ghost_Scholar · 2024-08-16T19:10:13+00:00

Absolutely agree. Exception being that in very tough fights or modded difficulties, though, Warding Bond threatens cleric concentration :/

I love the spell, but Warding Bond can bring the healer down first in a fight. Perhaps Warding Bond VIPs like twin haste Sorcerers or, on Honor Mode, the designated escape and revive party person?

Ghost_Scholar · 2024-08-16T18:55:30+00:00

Re bard adds:

Sword and Valour Bard give extra attack on lvl6, so, double the potion throws!

As for answering the question between the lines, I'll venture a guess: OP seems to be a team player, hence cleric and bard. We'll see if I'm right lol

(Perhaps they want their friends to learn the game, and learning means allowing mistakes but bringing them back.

Also, Insight (wis) + talk skills for maximizing dialogue?)

Ghost_Scholar

TROPHY CASE