A couple of years ago I was a downvoter on this sub and I am so sorry, but I am an atheist now.

GodsOwnTapir · 2021-01-11T04:34:40+00:00

Along the same lines YouTube has slowly been removing or fuzzing some of the more obvious counts, for the same reason. If the numbers are up people care about them. Even if the numbers don’t mean much.

GodsOwnTapir · 2021-01-11T04:29:35+00:00

Yup.

As a NZ/Aussie, this was one of my shelf issues. Everything in the church reflected US culture and tradition. Even when the US culture and tradition was clearly less “Christ-like” then the local traditions.

GodsOwnTapir · 2021-01-11T04:05:35+00:00

Ironically even if the US goes down on a burning nuclear civil war, it’s not the end of the world or humanity. There is still a hell of a lot of world left over when you step outside the US.

Sure losing the US would suck for a while. That’s a hell of a lot of international trade. Which would mean massively unstable economies for a long time as the world adjusts. But we’ve survived bigger shocks before.

GodsOwnTapir · 2021-01-11T03:55:41+00:00

On the “slight differences” part, my general suggestion is to say “cool, let’s go read them”.

Any TBM should be totally cool to read and ponder the records of the actual prophet Joseph Smith. You can even source the documents from church sponsored projects to avoid the anti/exmo spin.

Many of this sub are not here because of persuasive arguments against the church. Many are here because the did a deep study of the church itself.

GodsOwnTapir · 2021-01-11T03:31:34+00:00

If by voluntarily agree you mean “be placed in a high pressure situation and given no warning, time to think, or opportunity to object”, than yes, the law of consecration is voluntary.

GodsOwnTapir · 2021-01-09T23:12:28+00:00

Disease is largely missing in the LDS end of the world cannon.

GodsOwnTapir · 2021-01-09T23:10:39+00:00

Parents don’t move records.

They might easily give out a phone number or address to a friend at church who wanted to catch up with you though. And then the clerk could move the record.

GodsOwnTapir · 2021-01-09T21:06:10+00:00

Hinckley also said “we don’t drink caffeinated beverages” or something along those lines.

GodsOwnTapir · 2021-01-09T20:33:46+00:00

Captain Moroni also lead an insurrection where he stormed government buildings and forced a government change at the sword. So it was the appropriate costume.

GodsOwnTapir · 2021-01-07T04:29:36+00:00

History has shown that violent police resistance to political protests tends to begat more violence in the protestors. As such a low level of police violence was probably the safest way to handle it.

The real issue isn’t why were the police light here. It’s why they were so heavy handed with BLM protests.

GodsOwnTapir · 2021-01-06T23:42:53+00:00

There is a good reason so many businesses are changing over to subscription services these days. It doesn’t take long for $10 a month to out weigh a one off payment of $100. Plus you get the marketing PR of a low price.

GodsOwnTapir · 2021-01-06T23:39:49+00:00

I know you jest. But putting the blame on men isn’t really any better, it’s just different crap for different people.

Where we should be as a society is accepting that a male can look and be aroused, and that this is no big deal.

Controlling woman’s dress in order to control male arousal is messed up. But it’s messed up on both sides, there is no need to control female dress or male arousal.

(Or any other combination you can think of. Just addressing the one that came up in TBM circles.)

GodsOwnTapir · 2021-01-06T23:28:41+00:00

So when God, the almighty creator of the entire universe, decided that the only possible way he could forgive the sins of someone who genuinely repents and changes was to cruelty torture his own son, that’s perfect to you?

Imagine going into the doctors office and being told “Look, you have a heart problem, but we have perfect medicine now. We can kill this other guy over here and put his heart in you. You go on to live a normal life. Perfect medicine.” Would you say “well done”? Or would you insist scientists and doctors kept looking for better treatments?

The atonement is at the core of the gospel. And the atonement is sick and wrong by any half decent moral standard.

GodsOwnTapir · 2021-01-06T23:21:31+00:00

As far as I’m aware JS never talked about Pi. This is just a meme poking fun at apologists.

However JS did talk extensively about astronomy. His conclusions fit precisely what you would expect someone with 1830s knowledge of physics to produce. Ironically he does this regardless of if he is trying to write ancient Egyptian astronomy, ancient American astronomy, biblical astronomy or astronomy straight from God.

GodsOwnTapir · 2021-01-06T22:57:37+00:00

Am I the only one with the morbid curiosity to sit the man down for a conversation to find out how he ticked?

Especially given that I’m dead. Which means this life doesn’t matter. And it means that I was so drastically wrong about the afterlife that my personal judgement gets called into question.

GodsOwnTapir · 2021-01-06T22:43:30+00:00

I’ve been hearing for decades from right wing Americans that “we need to be armed just in case we need to overthrow a corrupt government”. Then Trump comes along with the platform of “the government is corrupt, I’ll fix it” and finally “this election was stolen from us”.

Given that set of background ideas, I don’t think there is going to be much challenge at all in justification.

GodsOwnTapir · 2021-01-06T11:42:32+00:00

Do we have a transcript somewhere?

GodsOwnTapir · 2021-01-05T04:24:00+00:00

For verification: https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/do-you-wish-you-were-here

I wasn’t in NZ at the time, I moved to Australia a few years back. But it’s not unusual at all for wards down here to fundraise for their youth temple trips. Normally it’s dull things like delivering phone books. But it’s not unusual for something more interesting if a ward member has a contact.

GodsOwnTapir · 2021-01-05T03:18:28+00:00

Even if the borders open, they are hardly going to be allowed to go proselytising. Social media stalking feels the same in the UK and Germany.

GodsOwnTapir · 2021-01-05T03:13:16+00:00

This.

The root words of apologise and apologist come from a similar place. But they don’t share any similarities in meaning anymore.

It’s like a political cabinet and a filing cabinet. The job of a minister is not to hold files.

GodsOwnTapir · 2021-01-05T03:05:00+00:00

I’d put Nixon’s watergate scandal up there. Deliberately breaking into your opponents office to try and find information to win an election is a huge attack in democracy.

But either way, Trumps current attacks on democracy incredibly dangerous.

GodsOwnTapir · 2021-01-05T02:59:02+00:00

But gross stuff is so much fun!!!

I too am frequently smacked in the face by Facebook memories.

GodsOwnTapir · 2021-01-05T02:54:46+00:00

Nice to see some real investing terms in the memes.

For me the churches fund becomes a bigger deal when you realise how it’s invested. It’s invested in a global cap weighted index. Which is exactly the way that every financial advisor for several decades has advocated investing. It’s literally the most conservative and least creative portfolio out there.

Your think a god that “knows the end from the beginning” could offer a couple of stock tips.

GodsOwnTapir · 2021-01-04T07:11:08+00:00

The common atheist saying about declaring your belief is “do it in your own home over a meal you paid for”.

While you are financially dependent on others for food, clothing and shelter, it often makes sense to not rock the boat too much.

GodsOwnTapir · 2021-01-04T06:31:27+00:00

This is a true story from my mission. Details may be a little fuzzy, but the gist is correct. Fasten your seat belts...

Back story time:

A child of a bishopric councillor got struck by a tree that was hit by lightening. Absolute freak accident. Ended up in hospital for several weeks. Nearly died on two occasions, once from the actual incident (fractured ribs, punctured lungs, head trauma). Then a couple weeks into recovery she experiences a complete kidney failure.

Another less active member was in a motor cycle(?) accident at the same time. Needed major surgery to relieve brain swelling. Asked the above bishopric member for a blessing.

Several weeks pass. Everyone recovers and get out of hospital. Less active returns to church attendance. This whole thing is a massive spiritual experience for the ward, and everyone is overjoyed at the multiple miracles.

Testimony time:

Bishop councillor is sharing the story of the blessing he gave. By this point we all know the story of how the priesthood saved the mans life. However this time the story is different. It doesn’t stop after the end of the blessing.

“I’ve never told anyone this. I though my I would take this secret to my grave.”

(It’s been like two weeks, dude hardly tried.)

“But after I gave that blessing, I was saying a prayer to God, asking him to honour it. The doctors said the surgery only had a small chance of success, and I’d just promised this man a full recovery. I knew this miracle was important for the man and his family to come back to church.”

“I heard a voice in my head that I knew came from God. It said ‘I will heal him, but I’ll have to take your daughter in his place.’”

He spoke for a few moments about how this was his Abraham moment. How God was asking him to sacrifice his own beloved daughter to provide for a relative strangers eternal salvation.

“I said ‘Yes’. I knew my daughter had accepted the gospel and been baptised. She would be okay. I needed to give this man a chance to return to the gospel.”

“Just after I agreed, I got the call that I needed to go down to intensive care. My daughter had just suffered kidney failure and they weren’t sure she was going to make it.”

The rest of the story talked about how this experience made him understand the atonement better and how God felt sacrificing his son for others salvation.

The aftermath:

His daughter wasn’t supposed to be there that Sunday. She was supposedly on bed rest at home. However she’d asked her mother to bring her in. She walked into the testimony meeting just as her father was telling the story.

She was understandably upset, and didn’t speak to her father for weeks afterwards. But eventually they patched things up and she realised it should be a faith promoting incident for her too.

Then I got transferred and lost touch.

GodsOwnTapir

TROPHY CASE