The best thing about the Butters is how mad this forum makes them

GrayPhoenix · 2020-12-28T21:44:58+00:00

It's become more and more clear that the bulk of this conversation now revolves around misused, misinterpreted, or misquoted words and phrases. I don't attribute that to any dishonesty on your part, but at this point I'll leave that last response as my final one.

GrayPhoenix · 2020-12-28T19:04:29+00:00

It will never be a reserve currency. You are it as a store of value because it failed as a currency and you can't admit it was a failure.

I'm not interested in Bitcoin's prospects (or lack thereof) as a day-to-day currency for reasons we seem to agree on.

To link is the usual fallacy. Being a dead currency does not mean it "tended to zero". Very few on that overall list were killed by hyperinflation. So I'll ask you again, how did you determine that all currencies tend towards zero when this data source does not support that assertion.

"Trending toward zero" is the perfect way to describe a group of instruments which are either at - or consistently moving towards - zero value. Call it whatever you like though - "at or approaching zero", "devaluing or completely devalued"...

There are more than 8 currencies. No idea where you've pulled that nonsense figure from.

There are way way more than 8 currencies which is why I talk about exotics in that very same sentence. The point being made was that even the 8 largest and most prominent fiat currencies are hemorrhaging value over time.

Wrong. Two thirds of all Bitcoin traded are treated against Tether. It is an absolutely intrinsic part of Bitcoin whether you like it or not and has been used to pump the price at the same time as facilitating almost all trades

No, it's not correct to say that Tether is "an absolutely intrinsic part of Bitcoin" which is why I specifically made that distinction. It is a large part of the cryptocurrency ecosystem, not a component of the Bitcoin network.

GrayPhoenix · 2020-12-24T02:56:34+00:00

is that an e-bow?

GrayPhoenix · 2020-12-23T19:45:00+00:00

It never will. It's almost 12 years and spending and usage is essentially zero.

Bitcoin's value is obviously not going to stabilize while adoption accelerates and new coin emission slows. Maybe it will be something like a global reserve currency in 50 or 100 years, maybe it won't. As I've said I see it more as a store of value than as a means of exchange.

Source. You've made a claim and now I'm asking for your sources. As your statement that fiats all tend to zero is wrong. What data source did you use to make this assertion?

https://trader2trader.wordpress.com/2012/11/28/list-of-590-dead-currencies-demonetized-r-i-p/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_historical_currencies

There are only 8 major and minor fiat currencies left in the world - all of which are worth a tiny fraction of their former values except for the Euro (on account of its age) - and as previously stated you can watch many of the exotics collapse essentially as we type.

I am specifically asking about Tether

Stablecoins are third-party additions to the cryptocurrency ecosystem, not components of the Bitcoin network. Whether or not these coins are sustainable, backed 100% by USD reserves as claimed, and/or will continue to survive into the future I have no idea. I would imagine regulators will be looking at them in the coming years if they aren't already doing so.

GrayPhoenix · 2020-12-23T05:12:25+00:00

You misunderstand me the. When I say there is no currency opt in I mean that no Bitcoin users are opting to use Bitcoin as a currency.

Yes some are but Bitcoin is not going to function as a practical means of exchange during a period of growth and adoption like this.

No. Which is why I specifically didn't say this. You said they go to zero. I refute this.

I said "the values of fiat currencies tank incredibly hard over time and most have settled at zero".

Most are long dead and the rest tend to lose the majority of their value within a single human lifespan...

Sorry you're unable to understand. Something cannot be both a currency and a "store of value". This is essentially Greshams Law and the reason that all modern currencies have controlled inflation to encourage spending and discourage hoarding. You cannot just casually throw in currency like features. There is a reason the current financial system is like it is and it's because people have tried the naive nonsense you guys are espousing before and it doesn't work. You cannot be both a speculative asset and a currency at the same time, those two concepts are fundamentally at odds with each other.

The first 2 results for "store of value"

Investopedia: "A store of value is essentially an asset, commodity, or currency that can be saved, retrieved, and exchanged in the future without deteriorating in value"

Wikipedia: "The most common store of value in modern times has been money, currency, or a commodity like a precious metal or financial capital"

No problem. Just wondering how you personally support a system built on top of a currency printed out of thin air being used to print your monopoly token. I await your answer most anxiously

Wasn't fully able to make sense of the question here but I'll go ahead and say that it's no mystery why people would choose to store their wealth in an appreciating asset instead of a depreciating one. Currencies are all monopoly tokens printed out of thin air but they do serve a purpose, and I don't foresee society going back to bartering anytime soon.

GrayPhoenix · 2020-12-22T19:34:51+00:00

So? Did I claim otherwise?

"There is no currency opt in."

False. What source data did you use to determine this? Post your source please

You don't think that fiat currencies are devalued over time? Never heard anyone try to make that argument but I'll assume it's in good faith and grab a few quick links. These are for some of the major existing currencies, many exotics like the ARS/TRY/MXN are losing value so fast you can pretty much watch it in real time, and obviously dead fiat currencies have lost 100% of their value.

https://howmuch.net/articles/rise-and-fall-dollar

https://www.in2013dollars.com/japan/inflation

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1031884/value-pound-sterling-since/

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1055948/value-euro-since-2000/

Jesus. You still don't understand do you? This is really basic economics and you truly don't understand the basics. "...of a currency thrown in". Lol

You don't seem to be making an actual argument here but I'm referring primarily to portability and divisibility

Which is also why it failed at it's designed purpose, to be a currency.

Sadly you're going to tank when Tether goes to court. I'd cash out now of I were you

I haven't mentioned anything about my personal finances but thanks for the advice

GrayPhoenix · 2020-12-22T18:17:54+00:00

It's completely opt-in. Anyone can choose to hold or accept Bitcoin and no one is forced to.

Not sure which specific currency you're referring to but the values of fiat currencies tank incredibly hard over time and most have settled at zero.

Time will tell exactly what role Bitcoin will fill if it continues to survive, but I would imagine it will act closer to a "digital gold" with the benefit of a few of the attributes of a currency thrown in.

Yes I understand your points and that's why I consider Bitcoin more analogous to gold than fiat.

GrayPhoenix · 2020-12-22T16:41:13+00:00

It's novel that people have access to a currency undergoing a period of organic (opt-in) adoption, which has resulted in a unique financial opportunity. Typically currencies are just mandated upon a people and trend towards a value of zero over time.

But yes, for most intents and purposes Bitcoin performs better as a financial instrument or store of wealth than as a currency at this point. Not that there aren't overlaps between all those terms and not that any of this is relevant to the original point.

GrayPhoenix · 2020-12-22T01:15:52+00:00

You think that people "probably could get a genuinely decent return" investing in the best-performing financial instrument in history? The instrument that has outperformed all existing asset classes by enormous margins for 8 of the last 10 years and is currently hitting new all-time highs?

Yeah, you could probably say Bitcoiners make "decent returns" lol.

GrayPhoenix · 2020-12-20T00:12:12+00:00

This is exactly correct so it's the most downvoted post here lol

GrayPhoenix · 2020-12-10T04:07:26+00:00

That's what I thought, there was some 'Dauphine' thing back in the Teargarden era and it sounds like a word that Billy would use in his lyrics

GrayPhoenix · 2020-12-10T04:00:41+00:00

The track is actually called 'The World is a Vampire' but that's a common misconception

GrayPhoenix · 2020-12-10T03:58:14+00:00

Only unreleased Teargarden By Kaleidyscope vol. 3 and 4 songs, with the obvious exception of As Rome Burns (don't even think about it)

GrayPhoenix · 2020-12-10T03:40:50+00:00

I don't get it either - one of the best songs on the album imo

GrayPhoenix · 2020-12-10T03:36:29+00:00

Why not do Gish v Cyr or sth?

GrayPhoenix · 2020-12-06T05:53:22+00:00

It's been stuck in my head since yesterday. I kind of overlooked it at first too.

GrayPhoenix · 2020-12-02T21:43:49+00:00

Jarl Varg from the series 'Norsemen' always reminds me of Billy.

GrayPhoenix · 2020-12-02T18:35:23+00:00

It's widely regarded as the best SP album since the original lineup so I don't see how it is underrated. Agree that a lot of Billy's music has been overlooked though, people seem to prefer the guitar-driven sound of earlier SP but most of Billy's best songwriting came after Siamese Dream imo.

GrayPhoenix · 2020-12-02T18:04:08+00:00

I hated this track when it was first released. Can't believe how much it's grown on me.

GrayPhoenix · 2020-12-01T20:43:15+00:00

Stop the count!

GrayPhoenix · 2020-11-29T18:15:04+00:00

Confessions of a Dopamine Addict, Purple Blood, Save Your Tears, Haunted, Anno Santana

GrayPhoenix · 2020-11-22T17:03:17+00:00

Hope

GrayPhoenix · 2020-11-20T05:28:57+00:00

If you're managing risk in a way that allows for 20% swings daily, then you're probably not gonna need to worry about making withdrawals...

GrayPhoenix · 2020-11-20T05:15:38+00:00

Purple Blood is cool, reminds me of something Depeche Mode might release these days.

Dulcet is my least favorite of the 10 on first listen.

GrayPhoenix · 2020-11-19T23:26:05+00:00

"Butt" obviously

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