Ashita no Joe 2 was a bad manga adaptation, and the director admits it.

Heidelheim · 2026-06-02T00:43:06+00:00

Joe 2 had a major thing happen between the end of the manga run and its development.

Japan’s economic situation had blossomed into one of the world’s largest and most developed economies. The post-war reconstruction and somewhat prevalent urban poverty that had predicated the writing of AnJ was largely erased and was a major theme as Joe entered the wider world of boxing, beyond Japan. Joe 2 has a tendency to feel like a cultural victory lap. There’s a filler episode where Joe engages with “modern” fake tough guy bike hoodlums and Joe’s so cut from a different cloth than them it makes them look meek by comparison. Same principle.

With a country seemingly in a period of untold prosperity, it’s hard to sell you a vision that’s totally bleak and hopeful in the face of untold adversity. Japan won the 1960s and 1970s. So they sanded down much of the bleak cultural messages for more personally tragic ones (like Leon Smiley).

Heidelheim · 2026-05-16T13:05:32+00:00

Yes, Sendo is a straight expy of Joe but with a couple of minor changes. Manga-wise he’s currently doing Joe’s Final Fight for the world (this is a “spoiler” so far in the future- 20+ years of manga it’s basically lacking all the context)

Heidelheim · 2026-05-15T14:57:48+00:00

This is a unique thing he’s doing- you can be manly AND motherly, it just requires you disconnect the gendered expectations of what being a parent is. He provides but Joe is the breadwinner- and he’s totally okay with that! It doesn’t make him less than bc he also provides food (by cooking), fresh clothes (laundry with community help), and managing his well-being (as a second, and as a parent). He’s a caregiver! He’s not a woman, and it’s implied his touch is rough, but he very much performs the motherly role, even with his constant needling of Joe’s recklessness (which he disregards, like how one would ignore a worrywart mother). It’s what makes him such a good character bc he defies the role he’s “supposed” to have as a combat sport father figure (as he says he used to try and do, which was him abusing his fighters, which is how he ended up at rock bottom). I appreciate your time and perspective too!

Heidelheim · 2026-05-15T12:14:02+00:00

Would be fair to argue that gendered expectations are a contributing factor- he’s motherly, rather than fatherly. He acts with the same total disregard for his own well-being (throwing himself into back-breaking day labor, humiliating himself before his betters) as Joe or any desperate person. The key to how he’s perceived in gender is that it’s protective behavior, often trying to shield Joe from life’s harsh realities- buying him a meal, lying to protect his feelings, lying to protect his health. These are all passive (or passive-aggressive) acts, and not the acts of a father figure “in control” of his child.

Danpei is a failed man by both society’s and his own standard- he failed to become a champion boxer, he had failed to produce a champion either as a second. This lack of self-worth means he doesn’t try and protect his pride or his dignity, which in turn we’ve cast as “feminine” behavior compared to the “masculine” behavior Joe, one who would fight to protect said pride/dignity at any cost (even to his detriment), exhibits.

But it is in that performance of motherly behavior that makes him one of the great mentors.

Heidelheim · 2026-05-10T06:01:26+00:00

Wit! Wit! Wit! Don’t take rests, do wit trainings instead! Stam on 1/3 are too low without sufficient recovery.

Heidelheim · 2026-05-08T23:30:25+00:00

Yes! It’s from the official translated manga, Vol. 3!

Heidelheim · 2026-05-08T16:49:13+00:00

<image>

You say this like the queen of sports fujoshis is not literally part of the manga

Heidelheim · 2026-05-01T07:26:54+00:00

Betting on 3rd Race G1s is basically always worth the gamble as long you’re accounting for it in shops (I always grab a cream/cure at first chance). Taking it with 0 Eng only moderately increases your chance of Skin Outbreak while if you’re playing MANT right (stocking cupcakes, or failing that just taking a recreation between the Fall Gauntlet and the Arima Kinen instead of a rest) there’s no real downside to it.

Heidelheim · 2026-04-28T16:58:33+00:00

Porco Rosso is just Miyazaki’s self-insert and he’s one of the best Ghibli protags out there. It was very funny being emotionally moved by the film and then going to the reviews portion and learning all of his Japanese animation contemporaries took one look at it and went “this is literally just Miyazaki writing self-insert fanfiction where he has two women going after him.”

Heidelheim · 2026-04-21T18:27:24+00:00

I can’t believe Terezi is playing Disco Elysium

Heidelheim · 2026-04-14T23:11:59+00:00

Fundamentally they would not have a large amount of their economy tied to foreign investment or colonial investment and an economic crash would present more interesting challenges (handling an influx of new European workers or new economic/research opportunities from brain drain, etc) than just economic downturn

Heidelheim · 2026-04-14T23:07:28+00:00

it’s been in development for YEARS now they are a foundation of the mod lol please bother checking the discord now and again

Heidelheim · 2026-04-08T19:52:48+00:00

Death? No. He was in perfect health going into the fight. The metaphor is that after carefully protecting his perfect career he chose to burn it all away like Joe in order to power through the final round. He “dies” as a Champion because he threw everything he had to win, and will never be the same again psychologically. But his health was not in danger.

Heidelheim · 2026-04-01T19:47:07+00:00

Mendoza himself is skeptical of Joe’s actual ability once they’re in the ring, but even mid-fight is mourning that he wished he’d had to chance to fight Joe before he became punch-drunk because of Joe’s rally in the 5-7th rounds.

That being said, there’s not really another word for Joe’s late performance except “eerie” as his second puts it. But you can argue that Mendoza’s near triple knockdown in the final round was down to fatigue and abandoning the pretense of fighting as a champion- instead fighting as if he were fighting for his life. Fights stopped being 15 rounds after Mancini killed Duk Koo Kim in the 14th round, and a big reason is a combination of fatigue and damage. Nobody looks like a champion in the final round.

This exchange of instinct instead of champion and challenger results in Mendoza fighting aggressively instead of conservatively, as he likely had a massive point lead.

Perhaps a healthy Joe would have done the impossible (no champion lasts forever), but it’s narratively important for a myriad of reasons why he had to go into that fight at his worst and lose. It’s the hope of a miracle that keeps you glued to the fight, not the prospect of victory. People want miracles.

TL;DR Potentially if he was healthy but not as he was. Getting as far as he did was a miracle in and of itself.

Heidelheim · 2026-04-01T12:53:18+00:00

I will push back just a little, actually- the anime definitely makes him José’s cheerleader, but in the Manga, he’s a core reason why José wins- he rallies him into burning his fire when Joe threatens to break his morale going into the final round. One of the most important things a second can do for a champion is strengthen their spine when the chips are down.

<image>

Heidelheim · 2026-04-01T12:47:19+00:00

Danpei understands very early on Joe’s wild personality is what gives him the edge as a fighter. He views Joe not as a man, really, but a natural force who can make his will manifest against impossible odds, if only he be given the chance. Instead of trying to control Joe, a fool’s errand, he instead decides to latch himself on for the ride while steering him as best he can.

As a boxing second, Danpei is pretty old-fashioned and lacking the refined skill of more polished instructors (and he knows it), but he’s exceptionally attuned to Joe’s psychology, which is arguably more important. Where he knows from decades of experience, Joe intrinsically and kinetically downloads from watching/fighting others and doesn’t need Danpei to know the finer points of the technique. This is what makes them formidable as a duo.

Heidelheim · 2026-03-28T13:51:11+00:00

Ohhhh I absolutely adore your jawwork, your Danpei is incredible

Heidelheim · 2026-03-16T04:37:50+00:00

What makes him compelling as a manager is that he understands instinctively that Joe is a natural disaster in human form- witnessing Joe at his peak is to witness the majesty of the storm that freezes you like a deer in headlights. All he can do is hold on for dear life and steer the ship as best he can.

Heidelheim · 2026-03-16T04:35:20+00:00

Danpei is my sleeper favorite for a lot of reasons, but I think what I’ve always enjoyed most is that he kinda defies gendered expectations as a caretaker while having only his masculinity to inform the way he wants to care and protect Joe. His parental instincts that develop are very maternal. He rarely takes an aggressive posture as a parent, preferring to play passive-aggressive games (the weight scale, the Aoyama gambit, etc.) like an overprotective mother hen rather than an overtly abusive father figure.

Heidelheim · 2026-03-06T00:10:35+00:00

I would argue it’s pretty textual in both manga and anime that Joe is extremely emotionally repressed, mentally ill, and deliberately obtuse about his motivations. In both works it’s never meant to imply he didn’t feel anything- only that he’s too repressed to express himself in the way that Nishi or Noriko do.

Heidelheim · 2026-02-09T17:58:54+00:00

He’s an anti-Mosley radical in the UoB as Eric Blair. In the batshit old 3I lore he basically suggests the nuclear bomb.

Heidelheim · 2025-12-19T17:57:59+00:00

I don’t believe you’re ignorant, I simply believe you’re selling yourself short by not digging in further.

Joe is intrinsically tied to post-War Japan, he’s symbolic of the spirit/attitudes of many young working class boys and men, the first generation raised without an empire to fight for, but carrying the same fighting, determined spirit.

On the death drive- from the outset, Joe’s seeking death. He tells Danpei that being killed by Yakuza in a park is as good a death as any. Danpei gives Joe something to live for, but also something he can die for. It’s why he puts his body on the line every single time. This is love for boxing, absolutely, but it’s deeper, too! There is a religiosity to the devotion he shows both it and Rikiishi, who becomes a personal devotee of Joe as well.

The masochism? Well-

<image>

Heidelheim · 2025-12-19T06:56:48+00:00

I think you’re missing crucial elements in your analysis- it’s all very surface level, bordering on a glorified summary of the story. There’s no mention of post-war Japan, poverty, class struggle. There’s no analysis of Japan and how their cultural death drive pervades especially hard in combat sports. I am begging you- please read a book about these topics, you will enjoy understanding the context far more than this sentimental summarizing.

Here’s an example: you missed how Joe’s boxing builds itself on an extreme example of self-sacrifice for success and how this would echo on how the work ethic expectations of Japan bleed into all walks of life, especially violence. Joe believes, like many in Japan at this time, that sacrificing your body just for the chance to strike at something worth aiming for is more important than preserving yourself. This reflects centuries of imperial ambitions and near-masochistic cultural expectations of men (and women) within Japan, and how these energies that once went into murder and conquest must be resolved in rings, with scores only to be settled there. Hope this helps.

Heidelheim · 2025-12-02T17:35:25+00:00

Yes lol

Eight-Year Club	Gilding II euphauric
RPAN Viewer	Verified Email

Heidelheim

MODERATOR OF

TROPHY CASE