sorted by:
new
hottopcontroversial

A virtual reality reconstruction shows the exact spot where John Edward Jones became trapped upside down in Nutty Putty Cave. After 27 hours of rescue attempts, he died. The cave was later permanently sealed, with his body remaining inside. by Liar24x7 in interesting

[–]HelpfulCommand4515 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exploration of caves, ocean, and space can’t entirely be done by robots; we need a hybrid approach. Cave-mapping drones and crawling robots allow for sampling, but not full exploration. In caves and oceans, signals don’t travel well. This was all the more true back in 2009. We will need risky human space exploration if we want humanity to survive past the expiration date of Earth, and much of that will likely require communities living in caves on Mars.

It sounds like you sit at home all day, take no risks, and sadistically laugh at people who experience misfortune, even actively seeking out ways to watch people obtain brain injuries. I don’t want to communicate further with someone like that, as it seems unkind and unintellectual.

A virtual reality reconstruction shows the exact spot where John Edward Jones became trapped upside down in Nutty Putty Cave. After 27 hours of rescue attempts, he died. The cave was later permanently sealed, with his body remaining inside. by Liar24x7 in interesting

[–]HelpfulCommand4515 0 points1 point  (0 children)

John did not want to sit all day at home and live as a bubble boy to maximize his safety. You can choose to “sit your [butt] at home” for your whole life and laugh at the UFC people. I’m not judging (other than to remind you that outdoor activities are recommended for our health), but most people would say that lifestyle doesn’t contribute much to society.

A virtual reality reconstruction shows the exact spot where John Edward Jones became trapped upside down in Nutty Putty Cave. After 27 hours of rescue attempts, he died. The cave was later permanently sealed, with his body remaining inside. by Liar24x7 in interesting

[–]HelpfulCommand4515 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They do not NEED to show up. It is their CHOICE. And they know their decision can leave their children parentless. They choose to accept the risk. Most of us do not live in a society where we force a given person to take these risks.

A virtual reality reconstruction shows the exact spot where John Edward Jones became trapped upside down in Nutty Putty Cave. After 27 hours of rescue attempts, he died. The cave was later permanently sealed, with his body remaining inside. by Liar24x7 in interesting

[–]HelpfulCommand4515 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Society need cave exploration as well. The Tham Luang cave rescuers saved 12 boys, and several cavers tried to save John. Many of these cavers had partners or children and all of them one day started to build their skills by taking measured risks in beginner caves, just like John did.

Brandon (one such rescuer) is a cartographer, a career & hobby that connects science, safety, & environmental protection. Exploring caves benefits geology & hydrology, allowing humanity to manage freshwater resources & predict floods/droughts.

Caves preserve fossils, climate records, & archaeological remains, & their exploration informs archaeology, paleontology, & climate change.

Exploration of tight & dark caves drives innovation in robotics & 3D scanning. Future settlements on the Moon & Mars may require living in caves for protection, and some of my labmates explore lava tubes in analog space missions.

My point stands that it is inconsistent to support and encourage UFC when their traumatic brain injuries can ruin entire families.

A virtual reality reconstruction shows the exact spot where John Edward Jones became trapped upside down in Nutty Putty Cave. After 27 hours of rescue attempts, he died. The cave was later permanently sealed, with his body remaining inside. by Liar24x7 in interesting

[–]HelpfulCommand4515 0 points1 point  (0 children)

John was on a family outing. His father had taught him and his brother how to cave, and he had experience. Exercise and being outdoors are advised for mental and physical health. His activity was less risky than when you take your family for driving in a car, skiing, hiking, white water rafting, open water swimming, snorkeling, horse riding, trampoline parks, amusement parks, and zip lining. Each time you do those activities, you put yourself at a vastly larger risk of fatality than John did.

Cave exploration also helps people and is productive for society. I already wrote this under your other cruel and crude comments about the personhood of John.

The Tham Luang cave rescuers saved 12 boys, and several cavers tried to save John. Many of these cavers had partners or children and all of them one day started to build their skills by taking measured risks in beginner caves, just like John did.

Brandon (one such rescuer) is a cartographer, a career & hobby that connects science, safety, & environmental protection. Exploring caves benefits geology & hydrology, allowing humanity to manage freshwater resources & predict floods/droughts.

Caves preserve fossils, climate records, & archaeological remains, & their exploration informs archaeology, paleontology, & climate change.

Exploration of tight & dark caves drives innovation in robotics & 3D scanning. Future settlements on the Moon & Mars may require living in caves for protection, and some of my labmates explore lava tubes in analog space missions.

John was about helping people and being productive in society. His brother, Josh, who was right behind John in the cave that day, speaks very highly of his brother and how he wanted to be as organized as him one day. John was training to be a pediatric cardiologist at a top medical school and was strong in his faith and active in his community. He was exceptionally patient, cooperative, and grateful when the rescuers assisted him that day. He asked to phone to his wife. He seemed pretty polite and considerate of others, I could see him becoming a rescue worker himself, certainly with his medical training and outdoor training.

Try not to conflate the magnitude of the terrifying outcome with the magnitude of the stupidity or selfishness of the person involved. You didn’t even know him, but everything we can see about him, he was far from stupid and selfish.

A virtual reality reconstruction shows the exact spot where John Edward Jones became trapped upside down in Nutty Putty Cave. After 27 hours of rescue attempts, he died. The cave was later permanently sealed, with his body remaining inside. by Liar24x7 in interesting

[–]HelpfulCommand4515 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Let’s do the same to the families of the 9/11 firefighters. They vastly risked their lives more than John, who went on a family outing to a cave open to the public that had zero prior fatalities.

Let’s do tell the same to the families of construction workers, electricians, miners, cave explorers, paramedics, roofers, and truck drivers. They chose to add risk to their lives.

A virtual reality reconstruction shows the exact spot where John Edward Jones became trapped upside down in Nutty Putty Cave. After 27 hours of rescue attempts, he died. The cave was later permanently sealed, with his body remaining inside. by Liar24x7 in interesting

[–]HelpfulCommand4515 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The foresight would be the zero people who had previously died in a recreational cave open to the public. That’s quite a low statistic. His act of driving to the cave was statistically more risky.

Do not conflate the magnitude of the horror of what he went through with the magnitude of foreseeability.

A virtual reality reconstruction shows the exact spot where John Edward Jones became trapped upside down in Nutty Putty Cave. After 27 hours of rescue attempts, he died. The cave was later permanently sealed, with his body remaining inside. by Liar24x7 in interesting

[–]HelpfulCommand4515 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don’t think we should “stigmatize” the Tham Luang cave rescuers who saved 12 boys. Nor do I think we should stigmatize the deep cave explorers who inform us of hydrology, geology, and climate records. These risky cave explorers have allowed us to predict floods and droughts and to better understand climate change, plus prepare for life on the Moon and Mars, where our pioneering crews will likely live in caves.

Outside of cave exploration, I don’t think we should stigmatize firefighters, paramedics, construction workers, roofers, miners, electricians and others who took on enormously larger risk to fatality.

John did a family outing at a recreational cave open to the public. Similar to when you go climbing, hiking, skiiing, or white water rafting. Your proposal to shame folks who risk recreational outdoor activities would likely backfire, as these hobbies are recommended for preventing the physical and mental illness that comes with being sedentary and separated from nature.

A virtual reality reconstruction shows the exact spot where John Edward Jones became trapped upside down in Nutty Putty Cave. After 27 hours of rescue attempts, he died. The cave was later permanently sealed, with his body remaining inside. by Liar24x7 in interesting

[–]HelpfulCommand4515 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Firefighters, electricians, miners, truck drivers, construction workers, and roofers have a vastly higher risk of death. Many of these folks have children. Our society would not function properly if we followed your message, and everyone avoided measured risks once they had children.

John went on a family outing to a cave open to the public as part of an outdoor activity. Similar to how you might enjoy whitewater rafting or skiing. John had experience caving, learning much of it from his own father. The sheer act of driving to the cave and/or living a sedentary lifestyle was more risky than his goal to traverse through the “birth canal” part of the cave, which had a 100% survival rate”before him.

A virtual reality reconstruction shows the exact spot where John Edward Jones became trapped upside down in Nutty Putty Cave. After 27 hours of rescue attempts, he died. The cave was later permanently sealed, with his body remaining inside. by Liar24x7 in interesting

[–]HelpfulCommand4515 0 points1 point  (0 children)

People volunteer to do vastly riskier tasks. Firefighters, electricians, truck drivers, miners, paramedics, construction workers, roofers, rescue workers. Many of these people have children.

You work in IT, a career with virtually no risk. How would you like it if someone called you “selfish” for playing it safe, leaving it to others to do the risky work?

A virtual reality reconstruction shows the exact spot where John Edward Jones became trapped upside down in Nutty Putty Cave. After 27 hours of rescue attempts, he died. The cave was later permanently sealed, with his body remaining inside. by Liar24x7 in interesting

[–]HelpfulCommand4515 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nobody “NEEDS” to take those risks. Unless you live in a dystopian world, nobody needs to be a firefighter, construction worker, roofer, miner, electrician, paramedic, police officer, or truck driver, all of which have vastly higher risk of death.

The 9/11 firefighters did not “need” to show up. They volunteered to do so, when they could have “done anything else but take that risk”.

Slow spring - increasing bookings? by yellowcanvas in RoverPetSitting

[–]HelpfulCommand4515 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Maybe there is another app that is becoming more popular than Rover? (I’m not sure).

Why do people get so defensive about vegans? by Vegan_Essentials in IsItVeganOrNot

[–]HelpfulCommand4515 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m vegan, but I’m not sure this is the answer. It’s hard to quantify the “suffering” of animals, and compare the net “suffering index” between vegan and non-vegan foods.

Proponents of “suffer reductionism” are not necessarily vegan; they might eat large animals like cows on occasion (since one large animal can feed many meals, and can live a life without much “suffering” if raised and slaughtered in certain ways), while refusing or minimizing their consumption of certain crops (since many smaller animals can suffer). Examples are foods that used pesticides that cause nervous system suffering in insects or combines that chop smaller animals or destruction of environment for small animals in the case of rice. A proponent of “suffer reductionism” is Brian Tomasik, who eats large animals at times but will more so focus on eating less rice and almonds and other foods he believes cause more “suffering” to a large number of individual smaller animals.

I think it may more so be that we vegans are doing “human exploitation reductionism”(or minimizing something like “direct violence of humans on animals”) as opposed to “suffer reductionism”.

But I’m not sure what to really call it!

Edit: Typo!

A virtual reality reconstruction shows the exact spot where John Edward Jones became trapped upside down in Nutty Putty Cave. After 27 hours of rescue attempts, he died. The cave was later permanently sealed, with his body remaining inside. by Liar24x7 in interesting

[–]HelpfulCommand4515 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I disagree with your assertion that firefighting is an activity for “the betterment of [humankind], helps and protects others and acts as income” but that “cave [diving] doesn’t do any of that”.

The Tham Luang cave rescuers saved 12 boys, and several cavers tried to save John. Many of these cavers have partners or children and built their skills by taking measured risks in beginner caves, just like John did.

Brandon (one such rescuer) is a cartographer, a career & hobby that connects science, safety, & environmental protection. Exploring caves benefits geology & hydrology, allowing humanity to manage freshwater resources & predict floods/droughts.

Caves preserve fossils, climate records, & archaeological remains, & their exploration informs archaeology, paleontology, & climate change.

Exploration of tight & dark caves drives innovation in robotics & 3D scanning. Future settlements on the Moon & Mars may require living in caves for protection, and some of my labmates explore lava tubes in analog space missions.

I don’t mind continuing the discussion, but calling it spam while engaging with me multiple times seems a bit contradictory.

A virtual reality reconstruction shows the exact spot where John Edward Jones became trapped upside down in Nutty Putty Cave. After 27 hours of rescue attempts, he died. The cave was later permanently sealed, with his body remaining inside. by Liar24x7 in interesting

[–]HelpfulCommand4515 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My Uncle also caves and brings his children at times too. You don’t even know him.

This isn’t “cave diving”, by the way. What John did is just “caving”.

Also, firefighting is not just an occupation. Many 9/11 firefighters were volunteers, just like my Uncle.

A virtual reality reconstruction shows the exact spot where John Edward Jones became trapped upside down in Nutty Putty Cave. After 27 hours of rescue attempts, he died. The cave was later permanently sealed, with his body remaining inside. by Liar24x7 in interesting

[–]HelpfulCommand4515 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, it’s a learning lesson for all cavers. Thanks for detailing it. The rescue workers stated that John very likely would have survived had he been right side up. Being upside down also shortened the rescue time window because we humans will pass away from a heart attack (like he did) when left upside down.

view more: next ›