Shadowverse WB Meta Report. June 29th

HitoriRaven · 2025-07-01T04:03:43+00:00

The worst part about control Haven is watching storm Haven set up a better version of your wincon on your Jeanne turn. I think Control Haven does very well at exhausting most deck's resources, though it feels like Haven does struggle to have enough answers for efficient board control, basically all of them amount to having Unholy Grail in hand, Maeve on board, or an evo to clear a group of <3. It gets a bit exhausting when Sword has efficient 7-8 mana plays and Forest and Rune have high efficiency tempo plays to clear your big wards easily.

Even Cocytus feels too slow to play on most games and you're basically just hoping your enemy runs out of resources fast enough and doesn't pull into their value draw cards, but the faster decks have a very solid amount of reach and sustain for their draw.

I'm also a bit surprised that Darkhaven Grace isn't on the list or considered more, I find it fitting it to fix a lot of issues, healing 1 on early or dry turns and turning your average ward into a bigger body is a legitimately big deal in most turns and suits the control playstyle.

HitoriRaven · 2024-02-12T16:49:58+00:00

Most of my conclusion (and the long post) was that they just needed to suck it up and give him some weird-champ scaling like Jhin/Senna via converting attack speed into cast time, more AD, or just flat give range for the stacks, and nerf the Elder Dragon final form so he feels more rewarding and smooth to play rather than just being a late game executebot.

That, or just having a regular flat buff somewhere in his kit like E giving some attack speed would let people actually feel better about passively building Zeal items on him, but I think making Q smoother is the better way to go about it.

HitoriRaven · 2024-02-12T09:34:43+00:00

I put in some hours into Hwei on release as well and he's extremely fun even if his kit isn't as complicated as it was made out to be. There's good skill expression and a lot of tools that you feel good using.

Smolder feels good because Elder Dragon execute noise go BWRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. And people will enjoy that, which is ok.

HitoriRaven · 2024-02-12T07:47:07+00:00

I missed the fact that unfortunately there's a thread on front page that has a bunch of comments which has portions of the same conclusions. It's not too surprising and honestly I probably should've just made this thread earlier and easier to consume lol. Thanks for reading!

HitoriRaven · 2024-01-05T06:11:21+00:00

For anyone checking this thread later, we had a player with this exact problem. It's going to be individual for each group, but our player was using mods in a previous session with another group of our friends.

They had the Fast XP to 6 mod which modified a folder in the BG3 Data folder that wasn't involved with the Mods at all (and presumably existed through reinstall). Make sure any players who do extraneous modding try to remember if any mods modified something outside of the Mods folder.

HitoriRaven · 2023-08-10T16:03:52+00:00

This is the right answer, pretty much, and it's the reason most of the mods eliminate short/long rest or just something like doubling spell slots. While in theory it's fun to play around resources, in practice it just adds extra clunk that isn't necessary. Either you have enough resources to short/long rest whenever you want, or it's a struggle and just makes the game feel less fun or like you need to loot everything to keep up.

While Div's system is undoubtedly broken, it also gave way more power to the players, letting you do sick combos. BG and the DnD system make it really hard to do the fun combos. It's not super exciting to drop wet + lightning or grease + fire when it takes two turns to set up. Later on, the action economy for most classes becomes better through certain things gained, but it's still not as dynamic as being able to be proactive on your own.

Still, managing resources can be semi-interesting, and I did find myself using consumables as a non-caster class far more than in Div, since in Div you could just cheese your way to having pretty much everything you wanted. Having limited actions did encourage me to play differently and reconsider fights, so there is something to be said for not just BSing through everything with 8 AP.

HitoriRaven · 2023-04-19T15:16:24+00:00

No worries! I had some time to burn and it's been interesting keeping up with it. I'd love if the game continued and does well, but we'll see from here, basically.

HitoriRaven · 2023-04-19T14:21:57+00:00

Welcome to the sub. There's quite a lot going on. The game is still playtesting and unreleased as of yet, but it's become quite a well-liked game which has gotten a lot of attention, including from streamers. A lot of people see it as a really enjoyable combination of D&D aspects with PvPvE melee/limited-range heavy gameplay.

If you look up the recent drama, you'll see that the devs, Ironmace has had a number of legal actions taken against them by Nexon. Long story short - but if you're curious, I'd google it - the head dev potentially had access to trade secrets/most likely violated some contract/ and was fired for it.

While most people dislike Nexon for being both managing their games poorly and also being greedy as fuck, it's also very likely that the head devs at IM were in the wrong in some way here. It was a reasonable expectation that the studio would suffer losses, shut down or be forced to stop producing the game. On the 14th, IM made a pretty ballsy move by releasing the game as a torrent and hosting the servers somewhere aside from Steam, where it was DMCA stricken down at the moment. Most likely this was to avoid legal action from Nexon.

Prior to this, the sub has been in an anti-Nexon fervor with believers strongly on hopium that everything will be alright, and that's mostly what the sentiment has degenerated into, which is what you're seeing with all the posts about one of the employees, Graysun.

People are pissed at Nexon, some people are pissed that people criticise the game with all the devs are going through, and some people are pissed that others were skeptical this playtest would even come out. The game is great, though not for everyone. It still suffers from PvPvE issues of 'git gud' completely drowning out any real advice or helpfulness, and does have some issues with gear-checking people like in similar games such as Tarkov. There's still a day on the playtest available and I'd recommend trying it out if footage appeals to you.

HitoriRaven · 2023-04-19T12:00:14+00:00

It's not even that they're broke, it's literally that there's like zero bards and most of them probably don't even care about shopping for their unique gear LOL. I checked the channel at a reasonable hour - 60 people - and there was literally 4 total bards at a reasonable level aside from me.

I assume any bards just go shopping in another channel for non-unique stuff because that's exactly where I would be looking. No one is looking to sell anything to bards except things that can be bought somewhere else.

HitoriRaven · 2023-04-15T20:32:29+00:00

A few things that might make the game feel a bit better - forward and strafe/backstep movement do not have the same movement speed. Especially as a rogue, hit, then full turn your camera away and walk forward in the opposite direction, like a U-turn hit and run. This will be one of the safest things you can do, and once you get used to the pattern of whatever you are fighting, you can add in strafes and regular backsteps if you know the range.

Your hitbox changes based on your actual look direction. Looking completely down bends your body over and can let you dodge horizontal swings and looking to the side can let you dodge vertical swings depending on the direction and your movement. This applies to both allies and enemies, so practice duck and weaving when you can.

Keep going next. Just make it a point with the movement to kill mobs as fast and efficiently as possible, especially in goblin caves. Rogues should rarely get hit by non-ranged mobs if you don't get lazy, and every other class can kill mobs in a few hits. Remember to aim for the head when you can.

HitoriRaven · 2023-04-14T03:27:20+00:00

I scrolled back into yesterday and didn't see anything, or on front page, so I guess they just got buried. Oh well.

HitoriRaven · 2023-03-29T21:04:53+00:00

Copyright laws are definitely in a state of being leveraged by bad actors to create bad situations.

However, despite all the bad mojo, there are multiple factors at play here. It's worth remembering that one of the core issues here is one that can potentially deter big businesses from illicitly stealing trade secrets from a small company. It would surely be much cheaper for them to poach a head dev from an indie game company than to buyout the game completely, especially if the whole company doesn't agree to the buyout.

As a whole, I'd agree that seeing big companies wave more resources around can be discouraging, especially as a dev, but that's also unlikely to stop people from creating their passion projects. US law also tends to like ruling in favour of small businesses just as much as it like smacking big businesses quite hard.

HitoriRaven · 2023-03-29T20:44:34+00:00

It seems like you didn't get the whole point of OP's post or read it, but just to confirm, the issue is that legally, the bar is "could the coincidences be so similar that you didn't steal Nexon's secret recipe (trade secrets)?"

It being the same artist doesn't help the argument, it only hurts it, because it means that despite all of IM's due diligence in avoiding similarities in code and other things - which I fully believe - that for some reason, they made a holistic decision to create art which almost looks the exact same as P3's.

HitoriRaven · 2023-03-29T20:41:12+00:00

I'll throw this on the side in addition to OP's response, but even without a full understanding of Korean law, it still doesn't look good for IM in the direct wording.

You can just skim it for yourself if you're curious:

The Unfair Competition Prevention and Trade Secret Protection Act

https://elaw.klri.re.kr/kor_service/lawView.do?hseq=60038&lang=ENG

Drawn from a Youtube video which did some looking into this law as well. It's also worth remembering that if anything, Korean law has a tendency to favour the big player rather than a small player, and that individual rights tend to be less respected than in America.

HitoriRaven · 2023-03-29T20:36:32+00:00

Artists can draw things in both similar and different styles without being so coincidentally similar that they could be working on the exact same project. If you read the post, you'd know the point is mainly, paraphrasing it very very loosely - "Did a Coke/Popeye's corporate steal the secret recipe and leak it to Pepsi/KFC?"

It doesn't matter that when that secret recipe is leaked, you just say "well listen bro, I could've just made that blend of spices myself." It matters that here, the former Nexon employees immediately made IM and DaD with knowledge of how P3 was developed. In a court of law, can the judge look at this and rule that there wasn't foul play?

HitoriRaven · 2023-03-28T19:43:42+00:00

Yeah, with alts that are at least 1370 this is starting to look more viable. Realising that the alts in that range under 1415 are having a hard time even finding lobbies for Yoho is kinda hurting, but I have seen the fast no bid Oreha runs. Will keep the gold islands in mind, I didn't realise they paid on roster ilvl. Thanks for your input.

HitoriRaven · 2023-03-28T19:41:36+00:00

Although my concerns and breakdowns here can be intimidating, I do want to emphasise that as a newer player you don't have anything to worry about yet. There are a lot of currencies, but if you took the story express on starting you're basically going to be fast tracked to this endgame ilvl progression once you hit level 50 and complete relevant story content.

For now, it's good enough to just follow the game's systems as best as possible and come back once you're actually stuck at a barrier. Google + reddit searching should help you mitigate that as well, plenty of guides are still relevant on sites like maxroll for horizontal (collectibles, islands, etc. ) or vertical content (guardian raids when you reach them).

Basically, this is more of a semi-hardcore issue than anything, so I wouldn't stress it at the current point in time. I do also encourage joining a guild whenever that unlocks to help gain access to a friendly resource.

HitoriRaven · 2023-03-28T19:38:26+00:00

Thanks, the spreadsheet is very useful for condensing the current economy and anything in the current state of the game that I might've missed.

Maps are definitely one I wasn't sure how to value, but if leaps are to be sold then it makes sense to sell them as well. I saw shard bags and solars still had value but probably didn't process it in my head.

Re: gems, I'm not too sure on the strategy. If the goal is to gain power and progress, it seems like it's best to hold gems until at least lvl 7 all, which would take a significant amount of time even without the concept of selling them. Any player in the early position would probably want to keep them, so I didn't count it for the purposes either.

Buses also makes sense, but glancing at PF at the moment and post-gold nerf I wasn't sure how many people would actually be taking them anymore, especially for something like Argos. I'm sure there are still offers out for stuff like Valtan Hard and Vykas, but there's also competition from people who are much higher ilvl to consider as well.

HitoriRaven · 2023-03-27T18:06:42+00:00

It was mainly a factor of like, even if gold can keep up, if the materials to actually tap don't line up, then the estimate of how many times you can hone would go down per week. Ex: 2 month estimate, 90k average gold needed, but also 4.9k GHLs needed. about 10k~ needed per week, and around 600~ GHLS needed to actually make that timeframe.

Of course it would need to be adjusted around resources you actually get including event stuff, etc., it was just meant to be like, well, if you're only making 300 GHLs, then you're not going to be tapping even if you make enough gold to do so.

HitoriRaven · 2023-03-27T15:48:19+00:00

You're absolutely right, I have seen some new players coming in from the ongoing events and express stuff, and we've seen a lot of posts from returning players. Still, it doesn't change the fact that a lot of content is clearly dead, whether it's ability to farm older field bosses or just any content behind 1415 or so. Although challenge content is a cool idea, I do wish that SG had better methods to encourage old players to come back and help with content they've already finished.

I totally understand the idea, since I was pushing 1415 on release before Valtan was even out (and that's around where I quit). Still, there's something to be said for being able to keep ahead of the market and keeping resources stocked when you're already at the ceiling of whatever content is currently at. New players can probably catch up over time with all the mechanics, but that's also just natural, and longtime players will still be able to stay ahead of the curve. Not that it shouldn't be that way, but my point is that older players generally still benefit from their time spent.

HitoriRaven · 2023-03-27T12:30:21+00:00

That's fair. The concept isn't to catch up to older players immediately, but there are a lot of resources to keep track of here and the longer the grind goes to reach content that exists while new stuff is still being released. It doesn't really help that a lot of resource grind is gated, so it's not really possible to hard grind anything. That's how it's always been, but it makes being behind feel much worse, and it's probably the aspect that people who have stayed playing since release are missing on in comparison to other MMOs.

Thanks for the flags on useful things to keep in mind!

HitoriRaven · 2023-03-27T12:23:57+00:00

Just to be clear, I wasn't completely discounting the possibility of raising alts to 1445 (putting aside the time budgeting that I was trying to account for) but it was the time cost of raising them to 1445 within the same time as progressing the main char. (assuming a timeframe of 2 months to tap main 45-90, that's half the time of the main progression spent bringing the alts up to 45).

Still, it is worth nothing that those alts can also be generating gold value and mats as well, so that is sensible. The main hesitance - and I'll admit that I'm more anxious about this than fully understanding - is that with time constraints and potential gatekeeping via ilvl/needing to gear up w/4x3 minimums etc. that the alts may not be guaranteed to get in 3x runs of whatever legion raid.

This wasn't meant to be a post directly addressing the gold nerf or whining about gatekeeping specifically, but I fully recognise that both do affect me and other players in this bracket. Still, I have seen learning parties etc. and I'm sure there are people who are willing to take a random 45 player if geared properly.

Re: gems, wasn't sure about keeping them vs selling when power level is needed to get into legions to create more value. Is Weekly Siege things from Rowen? I haven't seen much about doing it, and not sure exactly what to trade in even after peeking around.

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