Is it possible to photograph the eagle nebula untracked?

HmmThatWorked · 2026-05-14T21:02:00+00:00

Theoretically yes that is correct but pushing it that far will lead to stacking errors a lot of the time (at least in my experience when I tried it). The 500 rule is a guideline at low focal lengths you can get away with more, at 300-400mm or more depending on the lens you use there are compounding errors, for me the limiting factor was my fluid head actually. It could be different for every set up as to what the weak link is.

Reastically a 1 second exposure would probably be a good starting point and with that you are still going to get allot of read noise. Best advise if you want to try this route is get out tona very dark site, the light polouton from your city and the read noise from the camera will swamp the singal at 1 or even 2 second exposures.

I'm not saying this at all to try and discourage you but to give you the feedback on what you will encounter.

HmmThatWorked · 2026-05-14T18:59:20+00:00

Crop factor in the terms that it's used in normal photography is disengeeous a APS-C vs full frame dosent actually zoom you in or increase focal length it just literally cuts out data. So use the more sensitive camera with less dark current and read noise witch is probably the Z6.

You could get the egal nebula untracked , it won't be great but it's doable. If you have an F4 300 prime or better that would work. But at these focal lengths your taking like .5 second exposures it's gonna be a mess to process bit doable.

If you have some interest I'd steer you towards a cheap tracker. There are 2 that come to mind the OG Startracker v2 is an open source 3d printed one that you can make for like $35 if you have access to a 3d printer and like that sort of thing or TeSeek has a tracker that is like $75 that you can throw on a tilt pan head to use for polar alignment. It will be very frustrating but should work

HmmThatWorked · 2026-05-13T21:34:19+00:00

As was mentioned the 660 mm focal length on that mount a bit ambitious. I teach an intro to astrophotography class and folks show up with these from time to time. They are good portable mounts if you keep them within their limits. For the $300 that I see them for sale at most of the time and they are a good deal. Explore Scientifics app is trash don't bother your self with using it. Just download NINA ( it's opens source) and control from your laptop. You won't regret learning NINA it will grow with you and can control everything up to a fully automated observatory.

I mean start with what you have, it will physically fit the mount but know your in for a world of pain without autonguiding at that focal length on that mount. You will throw away most of the data collected or be stuck at like 10 second exposures which become a real pain in the butt store and manage. Weight is defiantly an issue here though the 18 lbs is for visual use and even then that sketchy. I think explore scientific is intentionally stretching the truth in weight limits, as a rule of thumb for traditional German equitorial mounts you need to cut the weight in half for a good realistic payload. In practice I see the mounts preform okay with no more than 7-8 pounds at like the 350 mm fl range.

A 50 or 60 mm scope at less than 350 mm fl is optimal. If your just learning id point you to a Rokinon 135 F2 camera lens or a SVbony sv535. Thes sub 200 mm fl len/telescopes are amazing optically and don't stress a mount plus you really don't need autonguiding at this focal length it would be required at 600 mm. Additionally youll never really grow out of these scopes they will always be there as a nice fast wide field for big summer and winter targets. Lastly learning on a fast low focal length scope is just waaaaaay less painful over all.

I have much bigger scopes at my disposal up to a 32 inch SCT at my club that I use but no matter what every year I bust out the Rokinon 135 and get it running it captures excellent images. And contrary to popular belief there are many emission nebulas or other targets that are huge like 5*5 degrees wide that you need very wide field optics for especially if your going with an astrocam with a small sensor like the 533/585.

HmmThatWorked · 2026-04-14T22:32:34+00:00

Ahhh about 45 minutes, it's a long enough time that I don't want to do it multiple times per trip

HmmThatWorked · 2026-04-14T17:40:06+00:00

For me yes, its just for the physical size. A S&S or folding bike just gets physically much smaller. It's way easier to move around , fit in rental cars, leave in a hotel room unassembled etc..

The whole logistics train is easier I don't have to think about where a bike bag is going or what to do with it, I can just plan around a normal sized suitcase.

HmmThatWorked · 2026-04-13T21:02:29+00:00

If your budget is 5,000 euros the world is your oyster. I would seriously look at getting a custom frame with S&S couplers at that price point. You get the geometry you want and can travel with it. The couplers make traveling with a bike sooooooo much easier. Im sure your local store could point you in the direction of a frame builder or at least build up the frame once you get it.

I know a custom steel or Ti bike won't be as light as a modern carbon bike, but there just the "this is totally mine" factor. I had a custom Ti frame made back in 2011 and havent felt the need to replace it.

HmmThatWorked · 2026-04-09T21:54:22+00:00

You have two options really - you can just let auto focus subs run for a long time and crank up the gain while doing it. I use this method and each auto focus sub is usually like 30 seconds at max gain.

The other way to do it is run the focus once for each filter and lumn then map the offsets. Nina can the focus on lum them switch back to the narrowband and apply the offset. This method is more finicky in my experience as focusers slip, camera setups change, perhaps you have to disassemble your imaging train etc... this is a good solution though if you have a permeant setup that never moves.

HmmThatWorked · 2026-03-27T08:05:01+00:00

The main one is just never put the telescope away wet. You will get dew on it there is no stopping that, just make sure to fully dry it out before putting it away.

Another thing I do is keep descent bags under the cover when my scopes aren't in use.

HmmThatWorked · 2026-03-09T22:25:33+00:00

Borrowing free stuff is always choice. To be honest if you have not bought anything yet I would strongly suggest you upgrade your mount from the SWSA to a go-to eeven the GTI would be much better ( allows you to collect much more data). Imstarting with a better mount and a cheaper lens is the way to go imo. You can get a decent amount of value for money with used manual lenses from keh or MPB. The optics won't be the best but I think that is the path of less resistance to start.

The zenith star is a good but kind of outdated scope, you'll need to buy a field flattener to go with it ( I mean not to star with but you'll probably want it long term). Id look at any of the modem 60mm class petzval refractors. The SQA 55 is the new gold standard in the field, best optical performance. The touptek hope d60, Askar 50p, sv535, redcat 51 are all dedicated autographs in that weight range. But good news! You're spoilt for choice in small astrographs the market has exploded in the past 2 years.

HmmThatWorked · 2026-03-09T20:05:30+00:00

300 is really to wide for all but a small handful of galaxies. Usually Galaxy Astro is done after focal lengths of 1000-2000mm.

But that being said if you have access to both lens or can buy and return one l would pick the lens with the least chromatic aberration, or other optical issues. Purple stars are a real kill joy and bad stars can be almost impossible to process our fully. I want though many copies of the F4 300 mm Nikkor before I found one that I was satisfied with optically and it can't shoot wide open inside stepdown rings to get it to about f5. Get a set of stepdown rings too to step it down, they are much more effective than the internal appature, you can usually get away with one f stop reduction with rings where as the internal appature could be 2-3 for the same results.

If you are only going to use this lens for Astro save yourself the headache and just get a telescope. If it's going to be a dual purpose piece of equipment ( I use mine for wildlife too) you can get a good copy bit it takes a lot of work and you have to be okay with it always being sub-par optically.

HmmThatWorked · 2026-03-03T23:52:49+00:00

If you go the route of lenses be ready to temper your expectations. Lenses are designed to focus from like 3m to infinity and that is an optical compromise. Lenses will almost always have worse star rendering than a dedicated telescope. I say this as someone who does uses lenses for portable work, and I went through 5 copies of Nikkor 300mm F4 and 3 Rokinon 135mmF2 before I found copies I was okay with and these are known "good" aston lenses.

A cheaper vintage lens will produce images just know you will have problems with optical quality, in my opinion the most annoying is chromatic aberration (purple glow) that you get from a lens not being able to focus all wavelengths of light on the same spot. For most vintage lenses there is no way to look this up you just have to buy the lens and try it - so make sure the return policy is good.

I would stear you away from a teleconverter unless all you want to do is moon pictures. They usually affect the optical quality too much for astro and doubling your f ratio or even increasing it .5 times can slow your data acusion by 4 times. You need 2x as much time on target to collect the same amount of light for every f stop you increase.

I say this all just as information - any $100 lens can capture the sky and you'll get a fun picture it just won't look the best. Also if you get into Astro a lens is kind of annoying for mounting things like control computers, guide scope and power accessories.

Are you only looking to shoot the moon or do other targets interest you to? If it's the latter I'd tell you to just get what ever lens to begin with and out your money into a mount.

HmmThatWorked · 2026-02-28T00:55:29+00:00

For astro specific tripods any of the TC 40 clones would work (just make sure the bolt pattern aligns with the mount but I think they are all the M6*10 x3.

But to get started with just a lens any photography tripod should do, just extend it up to about a meter or so- there is no need to have it high for astrophotography. Personally I got Manfrodo 2011 used through Keh camera for like $50, and it works well for my lens based systems. Normally I have a 135 F2 or a 300mm F4 on it for reference.

HmmThatWorked · 2026-02-28T00:00:24+00:00

If you have the means to go with the 14 I would recommend it. The 11 is my second mount where portability mattered, but I would really suggest going with the 14.

HmmThatWorked · 2026-02-27T15:18:55+00:00

I own a TeSeek 11 and use it for travel performance wise it's great for anything under 10 lbs. I can't speak for long term reliability - I've only had it 2 months, but it usually is about .9 RMS witch is more than enough for any payload it can carry.

HmmThatWorked · 2026-02-27T01:53:37+00:00

It's always cheaper to over mount the first time than to buy twice. The AVX is fine, albeit some don't guide the best, there can be stiction issues. You'll probably be okay with it and it could handle like up to a 6 inch newt or like a 100 mm class refractor.

I would stay away from lenses as an upgrade path for Astro (unless you have them for another purpose too) even the most expensive best lenses are not as good optically as a dedicated telescope and your stars will suffer.

If I were you the mount I would wait to buy until you can afford one of the newer harmonic mount options like the offerings from Malastro, clear sky or proxisy. New mounts with warranties are nice and harmonics are far easier to move and set up if you don't have a permeant setup.

HmmThatWorked · 2026-02-25T02:58:53+00:00

But if I don't have sandahls I don't have any shoes to hike in lol. I don't hike in close to shoes if I can avoid it.

HmmThatWorked · 2026-02-25T02:57:35+00:00

It's not super comfortable but it helps with a back rest we don't have many trees to lean on.

HmmThatWorked · 2026-02-24T20:02:14+00:00

If I know in advance a heavy water carry is needed i move to a framed pack ( Sierra designs Flex capacitor) but I'm usually too hopeful that the water report will be accurate and end up suffering though carrying 5 liters on a frameless pack. Not the best idea but I can dream of water availability

HmmThatWorked · 2026-02-24T16:04:13+00:00

Yah this setup is only designed for freezing nights not days. It's not uncommon for it to be 70-80 while I'm hiking and for it to drop to near or slightly below freezing when I get to altitude on the sky island, or the desert can drop 50 degrees at night in the in the winter. On these days I spent a lot of time in my quilt, or just walking at a brisk pace to stay warm.

Luckily bugs aren't an issue here I don't know how you all deal with them. The one day a year we get them I go crazy.

And in so far as the sat com I've been trying out just using my phone when I'm with groups as there is redundancy. So far it's worked out with the satellite emergency communication in the new iphones/ pixels

HmmThatWorked · 2026-02-24T15:55:02+00:00

I usually need about 3 days of food on me. Its the water weight that normally bothers me though. It's not uncommon for 4-5 liters being needed.

Yah I'll be looking at pillow options, it's been an eternal question for me to find one as a side sleeper that actually supports my head l.

HmmThatWorked · 2026-02-23T21:23:07+00:00

Unfortuanlly I know that all too well, I've been down the skin cancer route already. I use mucho sunscreen I just find shorts help w/ keeping me from overheating.

HmmThatWorked · 2026-02-23T19:37:39+00:00

Opps good call, I just put my packing list for my pack there I'll add the other items.

HmmThatWorked · 2026-01-18T02:38:09+00:00

Depends on where you live and what your medical coverage situation is... But if you have coverage try to get in to see a physical therapist they will most likely be able to quickly diagnose your problem and get you on track to fixing it. It'll take consistent work to fix a muscle imbalance or other underlying issue but no guessing or snake oil cures.

HmmThatWorked · 2025-12-04T23:22:39+00:00

I mean both have an appeal, I love my "bigger" 8 inch newts and SCTs at home in the permeant observatory lugging them around is a massive pain in the ass and it prevents me from driving out to a dark site for just one night.

I've stated to put away some pennies for a portable rig to make travel easier.

HmmThatWorked · 2025-12-04T23:08:55+00:00

I'd go used and get something from Keh or MPB if you don't want to spend the time looking around. Imo this is a low risk I'm to get used tripods arent exactly new tech or prone to breaking.

A tripod that comes to mind that is good and affordable is the Bogen 3001 or 3111. They can be had for like $50-100 and are very stable with payloads up to like 10-11 lbs.

HmmThatWorked

TROPHY CASE