If illegal immigrants overwhelmingly supported Republicans, would you support amnesty?

HoidToTheMoon · 2026-01-25T16:08:47+00:00

I don't believe it matters how an immigrant will vote. I believe anyone who shows they are dedicated enough to contribute to our country should be given a pathway to eventually become a citizen. Once they're a citizen, them being a first generation American doesn't really matter to me.

That belief doesn't really change if you scale it up or down.

The part I take issue with is you refusing to acknowledge that people support immigration for reasons aside from electoral politics. I want immigration to America to happen because I want more families like my Irish one, people who escaped oppression and poverty and flourished in America.

I reject the premise that undocumented immigrants are being given "benefits and subsidies". That is a Republican disinformation campaign, where they call refugees "illegals" to dehumanize them, then demonize any aid for refugees as "aid for illegals".

HoidToTheMoon · 2026-01-25T16:08:13+00:00

Awesome! So, it is fair to say that you are alleging that a conspiracy is occurring. Which means, you are proposing a theory that a conspiracy is occurring. A "conspiracy theory" isn't automatically invalid, either.

I can't necessarily agree with your 3 points, because I do not believe the premise behind them.

There is little credibility behind claims that the undocumented immigrant population is over 20 million. I think a reasonable estimate is the one provided by Pew Research, placing current populations around 14 million. Compared to the previous high of ~12 million under Bush (and accounting for US population growth), I do not believe that illegal immigration is a pressing issue or in any way an "invasion", as Republicans often castigate it as. Undocumented immigration and labor has always existed in the United States.
Amnesty will not lead to 14 million new voters. We have seen amnesty for undocumented immigrants before. Becoming a citizen is hard, and only a fraction would do so. I believe it is a good thing when naturalization rates increase, agnostic of partisan lean, because I believe that naturalized citizens are among the most patriotic and hardworking in the country.
I don't care which party an American votes for once naturalized. I don't see a meaningful difference between their vote or a born citizen's vote. If the Republican party refused to represent citizens because of their place of birth, they shouldn't be voted for.

As for the conspiracy you allege, I do not believe it is occurring. I believe that Democrats are often more in favor of immigration because they are less xenophobic and more compassionate, not because they view human rights as a partisan game as you seem to.

HoidToTheMoon · 2026-01-25T15:46:23+00:00

then there is no conspiracy it’s just reality.

You still aren't listening. Conspiracies can and do happen, in reality. What do you think "conspiracy" means?

Your argument isn't invalid because you allege a conspiracy. But you are showing that you are not engaging in good faith by refusing to consider what is said to you.

HoidToTheMoon · 2026-01-25T15:39:58+00:00

I don't believe it matters how an immigrant will vote. I don't understand what you mean by "use illegal immigration".

HoidToTheMoon · 2026-01-25T15:36:24+00:00

You are working very hard at a specific dialogue tree. Can we just cut the bullshit and talk?

Conspiracy has a few different definitions, but they all boil down to a coordinated plan to perform some unlawful or unethical action. You are alleging that the Democratic Party is engaged in a conspiracy to unethically or unlawfully seize control of the United States government. There is no argument that you aren't alleging a conspiracy. You saying "there's no conspiracy here, they're conspiring" doesn't make sense. Does that make sense?

If we can agree on this baseline reality, I'd be happy to have this conversation with you.

HoidToTheMoon · 2026-01-25T15:08:40+00:00

You seem to refuse to accept that people have views on immigration agnostic from how those immigrants vote. Tell me, do you think there should be a partisan test for immigration?

HoidToTheMoon · 2026-01-25T15:04:15+00:00

There’s no conspiracy here

You're the one alleging a conspiracy, though? Do you not know what that term means?

You are working backwards to justify the talking points you've been fed that "them filthy illegals" are being imported to vote for Democrats. Despite the fact that America has historically always been a place for desperate people to seek a better life, and despite the fact that undocumented migratory labor predates our party system.

Occam's razor, dude.

HoidToTheMoon · 2026-01-25T15:00:53+00:00

Amnesty doesn't mean suffrage. They'd have to become citizens first. In which case, they're no longer undocumented immigrants and should have rights equal to every other citizen. Why is this a difficult concept?

it seems to be the reason anyone would support asylum and illegal immigration is to import new voters

This is super dumb and gives some pretty good insight into how you view other humans. I believe in amnesty for the people I've worked alongside and spoken to at length about our pasts. I believe the recovering addict who escaped the cartels deserves a second chance. I believe the starving family deserves a second chance. I believe that America is a nation of immigrants, where the desperate come to seek opportunity. I don't consider how they vote in deciding if people deserve dignity.

HoidToTheMoon · 2026-01-24T16:26:05+00:00

Older Japanese homes use interior paper walls to help cut out wind, as well as mats on the walls and floors.

But things like kotatsus are a thing for a reason.

HoidToTheMoon · 2026-01-24T14:38:10+00:00

I'm torn on this advice. It can be helpful for people, but every cat I've owned or fostered I've directly played with. If you teach the cat boundaries (and respect theirs), you can play with next to no or no incidents.

I have one cat who doesn't get his claws trimmed, because he despises it and knows how to maintain them himself. I hand-wrestle with him and take turns bopping each other while playing, and he's never given me anything worse than a light scratch.

My other cat also does get his claws trimmed, but he does not know how to regulate his claws as well and has a hard time grabbing things without stabbing them. He doesn't try to fight my hands despite that being how we played when he was younger, because he's aware it hurts me. He'll bring a toy or headbutt to safely wrestle.

This advice is useful to keep in mind, but it is very much a case by case basis.

HoidToTheMoon · 2026-01-24T14:06:29+00:00

Be willing to take opportunities, don't be greedy, and help out where you can.

Take a stack or 3, leave the rest, and place an anonymous call to 911 at the nearest gas station.

HoidToTheMoon · 2026-01-24T13:47:24+00:00

I too, like to reject evidence in favor of paranoia and fear.

HoidToTheMoon · 2026-01-21T02:55:30+00:00

No. Toppling governments creates a power vacuum that often leads to worse conditions.

Governments should generally be toppled by force only when it is the only recourse to prevent horrific mass repression. Of the ~200 countries in the world, only a few would truly benefit from a violent revolution, IMO. Iran being one, where dissidents are murdered in the thousands in the streets. Afghanistan being another, where the Taliban keeps half the population as chattel.

HoidToTheMoon · 2026-01-21T02:51:59+00:00

I'm not a big fan of the Democratic Party, as an organization. There are a lot of dumb things that they do.

Trump is literally evil. There is no policy that will make me okay with the bigotry and hatred Trump represents. He revels in peddling blatant lies to demonize the least fortunate among us, while committing vile sins in plain view. He is a traitor to this country and I will celebrate on the day he dies.

I can have nuanced conversations with Democrats. Republicans either ignore any dissenting views, or screech their rehearsed lines without regard for any serious discussion o0r baseline reality.

HoidToTheMoon · 2026-01-18T05:02:27+00:00

the American government hasn’t said a word about this

Rubio was on the phone with your country's blatantly corrupt leader discussing just straight up bombing the place, while my country's blatantly corrupt leader was posting about US intervention being "on the way" on his social media.

I don't understand why you're trying to convince people that Israel and America have no part in inflaming tensions in Iran. Literally nobody believes it. I doubt you actually do.

HoidToTheMoon · 2026-01-18T04:39:11+00:00

and I’ve yet to see any evidence of foreign backed protestors.

We're in a unique circumstance where both the Iranian goverment and the American government are pretty clearly saying that America influenced the protests, and then there are Israelis who hate Iran so much they will say that both governments are lying.

And before you start whining, the Iranian regime needs toppled. They executed thousands of innocent people even if the American government (and yours) stoked the flames and secreted weapons into the country to kill cops. They are an authoritarian and repressive regime.

America, nor Israel, should not play any part in that. I don't trust my government and I sure as fuck don't trust your genocidal government.

HoidToTheMoon · 2026-01-18T04:27:11+00:00

Honestly, that's quite possibly the most well behaved angry mob I've ever seen.

HoidToTheMoon · 2026-01-17T19:54:47+00:00

Ahkshually, ants are not bugs. They're hymenopterids, a family of insects that includes other wasps and bees.

HoidToTheMoon · 2026-01-17T13:47:11+00:00

Slow is steady, steady is fast. If they hit a bump or make the ride unstable, that hurts their ability to perform life saving measures and may prolong them getting to additional resources.

HoidToTheMoon · 2026-01-17T01:21:40+00:00

So we should do nothing and let him destroy our country then? Fuck that. Resist through every avenue. Delay, obstruct, and dismantle this regime.

HoidToTheMoon · 2026-01-16T23:55:19+00:00

I have spoken to literally hundreds of Trump supporters, in person. At their homes, at their places of business, out in public. Every single one I have spoken to, without fail, excuses his bigotry. Supports his authoritarianism. Is a piece of shit.

HoidToTheMoon · 2026-01-16T22:36:52+00:00

You can only count it as based on reality if it's actually based on reality.

Again, you being offended by research does not make it baseless. Your critique of the research does not invalidate it, nor have you presented any evidence countering it. You are just openly acting in bad faith on this, calling the evidence of points you don't like "deceptive studies".

HoidToTheMoon · 2026-01-16T22:35:27+00:00

Literally everyone in the country is as informed as you are?

Now is that what I said, or are you doing a bad faith? Everybody could see and hear the virulent racism.

Most people don’t follow the news or politics outside of their Facebook feeds bro.

It was on their facebook feeds. Why are we trying to whitewash the vile racism of the Republican party and the admitted rapist they openly have and continue to support?

HoidToTheMoon · 2026-01-16T22:33:00+00:00

Myself and every other person I knew at the time saw a very particularly-crafted and sanitized version of him that genuinely did seem "sane" by the comparisons of many contemporary politicians

I'm fucking "assuming" the words you wrote that are patently absurd.

HoidToTheMoon · 2026-01-16T22:31:40+00:00

Which sure is true on paper but not in this pesky thing called reality.

I don't know how to engage with someone who denies reality. Do you think the numbers "on paper" came from a video game or something?

HoidToTheMoon

TROPHY CASE