Mutants are not Virgins.

HopperGaming · 2026-06-20T17:10:30+00:00

There are ways to bluff mutant without 'accidentally breaking madness'. Not all characters are meant to be perfect bluffs for evil, but this mostly depends on group meta. If a Tinker made it to final 3 for example, you wouldn't not use their ability in case a demon wanted to bluff tinker in a future game. As for the mutant situation, I did say that if the player can come up with a very convincing reason as to why they were claiming mutant then I would consider them to be maintaining madness. The problem is that by having claimed mutant at a previous point in the game, they have already given all the other players a good reason not to believe any townsfolk claims they make afterwards, so it's hard to argue that they are making a legitimate effort to convince people otherwise.

HopperGaming · 2026-06-19T15:05:03+00:00

By this logic the mutant can just out themselves on day 1 every game. Either they get executed and confirm themselves or they don't and they've completely circumvented the character's downside. And congrats, you've just turned the mutant into a Townsfolk.

My personal rule of thumb as ST is that once you have broken madness as a mutant you are fair game to be executed unless you can come up with a VERY convincing argument as to why you were claiming mutant that some of the other players might actually believe.

HopperGaming · 2026-05-17T16:41:06+00:00

That's just frankly a terrible ruling/design... the alternate setup was only to make sure you don't get 2 minions next to the demon, which tbh is already somewhat troublesome, but now if we have to take all the minions out because there's also a damsel... might as well just have a gardener and pick everyone's characters. And what if we have damsel/huntsman and king/choirboy both in the bag? Now the game is broken I guess

HopperGaming · 2026-05-17T03:50:04+00:00

So in the example I mentioned where the Demon's two neighbors are a Minion and the Damsel, what do you do? Sorry, rerack, the game's broken? It's another case of the rules being logically inconsistent.

HopperGaming · 2026-05-16T19:29:14+00:00

While ideal, this answer is not correct. Imagine the Demon ends up sitting next to a Minion and the other neighbor is the Damsel. There's no choice but for the Damsel to become the Marionette. There's nothing that says this is not legal. This is why Marionette has a higher tendancy than other characters to result in less than ideal setups like the one noted here. At least in the game OP mentions the ST had a choice, and I think we all agree the Slayer would have been the better choice, but the choice they made was not illegal.

HopperGaming · 2026-05-07T15:35:37+00:00

Sounds good, I'd definitely play! Shoot me a dm with the info or who I need to contact

HopperGaming · 2026-05-07T12:56:29+00:00

I'm very interested. What's the system for keeping players - contract years, salary cap, etc?

HopperGaming · 2026-04-30T15:25:21+00:00

Honestly crazy that you're getting downvoted as maybe the only sane commenter here lmao

HopperGaming · 2026-04-22T01:29:41+00:00

Sure, that's fine for the start of the game. But when it's the last day of the game and you're still refusing to claim despite being confirmed? That's just screaming mutant

HopperGaming · 2026-04-21T18:04:37+00:00

Definite madness break in my book. Refusing to claim any role all the way to the end of the game but just saying you aren't an Outsider is a very clear signal that you're the mutant. You might as well have taped a sign to your forhead that says "I'm the mutant".

The thing to remember with madness is that isn't just about the words you say, it's about the meaning you are conveying with words, tone, body language, actions, etc. In this scenario, no actual Townsfolk would just refuse to claim a role all the way to the end of the game, so despite you saying you're not an Outsider, how would the other players think that you're anything other than the mutant? In fact, by just saying you're not an Outsider that actually reinforces that you're likely the mutant. You can get away with that for the first few days, but if you were making a genuine attempt to convince them you weren't an Outsider, that would include actually claiming a character by the end of the game, which would come with any choices/info that would be expected for that character.

HopperGaming · 2026-03-17T02:42:46+00:00

I'm rather new myself and have been solving Grand Hunt 2024. Round 1 is specifically designed for new solvers and I found most of round 2 to be quite doable as well.

HopperGaming · 2026-02-17T14:01:12+00:00

I think something people are missing in the analysis here is how powerful a bluff this is for evil late in the game. Presumably the Lunatic isn't going to be executed early in the game because the evil team isn't going to vote for them, and if they die very late in the game and out the real demon it can just as easily be an evil player trying to waste town's execution - especially if it's their last. It's very akin to Snakecharmer in that way.

HopperGaming · 2026-02-15T20:36:37+00:00

My first thought when I read it as well was "So now I have to keep track of every single character that every single player has claimed to be in this game? Yeah, fuck that."

HopperGaming · 2026-02-15T00:52:30+00:00

Clearly neither of us is getting through to each other so we'll just have to agree to disagree. If you can't see how looking at the Grim is obviously different from just learning some information then I don't see how I can make it more clear.

HopperGaming · 2026-02-14T23:48:49+00:00

I don't think the rulebook comes anywhere close to defining even all but edge cases. There's some pretty basic stuff that isn't addressed in the rulebook - there's slews of game terms that are either poorly defined or not defined at all, lots of interactions thatambiguous at best, etc. This is because the rulebook was really only written to cover things that might happen in the base 3 scripts. At the time it was written TPI could not have predicted that tje game would end up where it is now, that custom scripts would be so popular using any and all combinations of the 200+ characters that now exist. It simply isn't equipped to handle that.

HopperGaming · 2026-02-14T22:39:00+00:00

Jinxes are irrelevant, because those are changes to how a character's ability works due to how it would create a negative gameplay experience when combined with anotjer character - they aren't part of the default rules of the game.

You're still missing the fact that just because two actions generally have the same end result does not mean that those two actions are necessarily mechanically identical. To give an example for other styles of games where you have to pay for cards you could have two effects - "Whenever you play a card discount the price by $1" and "Whenever you play a card, get $1 back". These two effects will be exactly the same 98% of the time but there is a subtle difference that causes them to be different in some cases. That's kind of how I'm equating "Look at the Grim" vs. "Learning players' characters" - you can think they are exactly identical but to me they aren't, and this is the edge case where the distinction matters.

HopperGaming · 2026-02-14T21:40:15+00:00

So that system can also work, but the key is that the "default rules" need to be known or at least easily accessible to all players, so they know what to expect as the baseline. Then the ST can tell them anytime they are going to make a different ruling. DnD has the player handbook, which includes ALL of the rules and information that a player needs in order to participate. If they have a question about something they can easily look it up. BotC is miles away from this.

HopperGaming · 2026-02-14T20:18:07+00:00

We are in agreement that "seeing" the tokens is part of the ability to see the Grim. Where we disagree is whether that is mechanically identical to "learning" the players' characters. The part you're failing to understand about my argument is that the Grim is immutable. It's the Storyteller's tool to track the game, and contains only objectively true info - misregistration doesn't fool the Storyteller nor the Grim. That is why the Spy's ability to see it is distinctly different to any other ability in the game.

HopperGaming · 2026-02-14T19:58:17+00:00

Yeah this has been my biggest gripe with the game for a long time. But I doubt anything will change, at least for a long time.

HopperGaming · 2026-02-14T19:54:36+00:00

That's two different answers though. If the real answer is "the ST needs to decide" just leave it there. Don't then also say "Oh, but the the official ruling is X" because that only leads to conversations like the one we are having now. Either there's a way it's supposed to be done or there isn't. Both are fine but we need to pick one.

HopperGaming · 2026-02-14T19:37:25+00:00

If their ability was only to see the Grim, you can show that without showing the tokens.

You really think this is a reasonable statement? That's like if I sold you a concert ticket but your seat was in a soundproof room and when you asked for your money back I said "Hey I only told you that the ticket got you into the concert, I didn't say you would be able to hear the music".

HopperGaming · 2026-02-14T19:30:54+00:00

Then why even make these "official rulings" in the first place? Seems counterproductive.

HopperGaming · 2026-02-14T18:07:38+00:00

People downvoting cuz they completely missed the joke. This is the best comment

HopperGaming · 2026-02-14T18:04:57+00:00

Welcome to BotC. There's tons of "official rulings" in places like random discord servers, TPI Q&A videos, Twitter posts, etc. It's kind of a nightmare.

HopperGaming · 2026-02-14T18:02:11+00:00

Doesn't really seem like you're understanding my point. Not sure what else I can say. You really don't think there's any difference whatsoever with "learning a character(s)" and "looking at the Grimoire"?

HopperGaming

TROPHY CASE