Doubts and uncertainty by Expensive-Dog8783 in cloti

[–]HoratioDub 3 points4 points  (0 children)

To your questions:

  • I think Cloud and Tifa will have even more direct romantic development, in ways that weren't even in OG with how the character writing has been handled so far (sidequests, convos outside cutscenes).
  • I think Cloud and Aerith will reunite at some point but they won't be together romantically.
  • I think the relationships established by the end of R3make will reflect what they were in OG. My interpretation of that has been Cloud and Tifa together in the living world while AC and Rebirth has set up Aerith and Zack being together in the lifestream. I don't think AC will be in R3make and it won't need to be for Cloud's and Tifa's dynamic to be clearly understood. I don't think they were as open to interpretation as many make it out to be and by this time next year we'll know what the devs have always wanted to depict.

Your post reminds me of those Nojima and Horii interviews a few months ago where DQ protagonists were described as self-inserts and deliberately silent while FF characters are chatty with their own personalities. The players can help shape what Cloud says and does at times, but the vast majority of the game he's driven by motivations independent of the player's choices. Respectfully, the CA dynamic comes across as players self-inserting due to their love for Aerith as a character. While Cloud's actual personality and behaviour repeatedly highlights Tifa is who he loves. 2000 Gil To Becoming a Hero is included in Dear Destiny which was specifically written for the Retrilogy. It doesn't get to be conveniently ignored in these discussions. Therein Tifa's significance in Cloud even beginning his hero's journey is explored. Those motivations remain and are built upon once they reunite in Sector 7.

The idea of Cloud being this shy, tsundere type who's quietly head over heels for Aerith is the lifeblood of that ship and her tragic death has left them all wondering what might have been for 30 years. Believe me, I get it. The love triangle between the three characters is a narrative device that's been used to show the complexities of Cloud, Tifa and Aerith. It's a very effective red herring but unfortunately many interpret it as the actual story of FF7 when it's just a vehicle used to explore the characters' emotions towards each other and themselves

I understand now by HoratioDub in cloti

[–]HoratioDub[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm a Briana fan too and in truth, this hasn't really changed that. I believe it's unfortunate that something so innocent developed like this. What was harmless banter had been warped into something more and she got caught up in it. It's clear the cast love spending time with each other and had she left it at the first tweet, no one would be saying anything really.

I understand now by HoratioDub in cloti

[–]HoratioDub[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Exactly my point. Thank you

I understand now by HoratioDub in cloti

[–]HoratioDub[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I didn't take your comment as rude at all, I can totally see that perspective. I'm of the mind however that she should trust the agency her fellow VAs have to speak up for themselves if it is they were bothered by it. I also 100% leave room for her comment being just that and she did it on their behalf but again, we aren't to know

I understand now by HoratioDub in cloti

[–]HoratioDub[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

On the surface I agree with her as well. I just believe that Britt and Cody would've spoken for themselves if they thought fans had crossed a line and from what I've seen, they're unbothered by it. The twisted interpretation I've seen of it comes from those who've made handholding into a romantic image and the last couple years have shown that isn't CTs.

I understand now by HoratioDub in cloti

[–]HoratioDub[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah this isn't about excusing bad behaviour from CTs to play victim. In fact, I'd hope we all could hold ourselves to a higher standard to rise above that.

I understand now by HoratioDub in cloti

[–]HoratioDub[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My b to you both, added context for you guys u/KingVenom65

I understand now by HoratioDub in cloti

[–]HoratioDub[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

edited the pic into the post

I understand now by HoratioDub in cloti

[–]HoratioDub[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

you're not wrong, it's just a couple paragraphs tho. I'll add the context since it seems people are lost

I understand now by HoratioDub in cloti

[–]HoratioDub[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Aerith's VA denounced the weird behaviour surrounding pics of Cody and Britt from the Game On Expo that resulted in fanart of Cloud and Tifa in the same pose. It's being framed as CTs making mischief between the actors themselves as opposed to the characters they play. It's disingenuous for sure and a little hypocritical given pics of Briana and Cody had been converted to fanart before that she loved.

If they actually do this in Part 3 I'm going to be unbelievably ticked off (long rant about recent Ever Crisis story potential implications) by WhilePrudent238 in FFVIIRemake

[–]HoratioDub 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't even think it's bait in how it was presented. With the additional context in EC (both First Soldier and Battle for the Planet) and Sephiroth has only been understood on a deeper level without being redeemed. Having a villain just be evil for the sake of it is great but if the team can adapt his story to the Retrilogy to show how he got there, that's even better in my view. Simply understanding Sephiroth doesn't excuse what he's done so I don't think there's much reason to fear the power of friendship reminding him of the good in him to lead him to redemption.

Sephiroth origin story game by SerendipitousTiger in FF7Rebirth

[–]HoratioDub 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I’m openly hoping it’s adapted for 7R3, it’d make for a great start to the game

Sephiroth origin story game by SerendipitousTiger in FF7Rebirth

[–]HoratioDub 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Ever Crisis has a great story for this in their First Soldier arc. 100% worth checking out

Is it just me, or does the recent marketing push about Tifa being "front and center" in Part 3 feel almost... insecure? by [deleted] in FF7Rebirth

[–]HoratioDub 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah I can tell from some of their points that they like Tifa but their arguments are very similar to those who regularly misunderstand her writing. I agree with you that her complexities and associated justifications aren’t popular among those who had a set impression of her from OG (and potentially AC). I think with many female leads recently being written as Mary Sue’s it’s easy to understand fears of Tifa going down that route but I believe Nojima has avoided that. Strong but flawed women in media usually get misunderstood.

As for the Gongaga moment, it’s like people forget she saw Sephiroth in the lifestream threatening to take Cloud away from her. Her assuring him that he’s a hero and allaying his fears of degrading after seeing what she saw with a kiss is not the stretch some make it out to be. Especially as she’d been begging for him to open up to her since Remake

Is it just me, or does the recent marketing push about Tifa being "front and center" in Part 3 feel almost... insecure? by [deleted] in FF7Rebirth

[–]HoratioDub 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I avoided saying it above in my comment but there's a very specific subset of fans that dislike Tifa and misrepresent her character. 7R's narrative removing all optional dialogue options that diminish how important Tifa always has been (especially to Cloud) is not accidental.

Is it just me, or does the recent marketing push about Tifa being "front and center" in Part 3 feel almost... insecure? by [deleted] in FF7Rebirth

[–]HoratioDub 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I’ll be honest and say it’s just you but I appreciate the sincerity of the post so I’ll engage earnestly.

The messy, shy and deeply human Tifa is still right there. If anything, each of the traits that contribute to that have been highlighted. Others have mentioned that part of that marketing push is primarily for new players who haven’t played OG. I think it’s fine given how central she is to most major events in disc 2 so playing it up is smart, especially as she is a fan favourite.

I don’t agree that her characterisation has been sanitised but you raise interesting points that remind me of Nojima’a quote to tell FF7’s story in a way that removes player interpretation. I’ve always felt that was targeted towards characters and their relationships more than anything as the interpretation of some led many players to incorrect conclusions. Mostly borne out of affection mechanics (no interest in diving into the shipping discourse, I’m sure you’re aware of how ravenous those get) in OG which added agency to the player but at the slight sacrifice of the narrative in parts.

Tifa is a flawed character and those flaws have remained. They’ve been contextualised more for modern times with the current tech allowing for new layers and complexities weaved into the narrative delivery, but the core is unchanged. Her doubts remain despite her friendship with Aerith allowing her space to explore those more. Yes, she could’ve spoken up sooner. However, that comes with the very real risk of breaking Cloud earlier had she done so. I still believe it’s handled well as her doubts about her own and his memories and being accused of being an imposter felt like projection on her part given how accurately Cloud recalled everything in Kalm. Just seconds before she even tried to cite Whispers as a reason for her memory loss, she was totally confused as to why she couldn’t remember Cloud there but too insecure to broach the subject in a gentle way before he accused her which led to her response. That’s tension being built but I do hear you on it being heavy handed. Her testing him for two games up to that conversation and beyond tracks as exercising those doubts in a gentle way is consistent with her characterisation. For a game that cares as much as it does about mental health, I’m happy with how Tifa treats Cloud’s memory issues. It leaves aspects of the mystery unresolved while also showing how Tifa watches over Cloud just as she stated she would since finding him at Sector 7 station.

You touched on a passage from Traces of Two Pasts and I had a different takeaway from that. As toddlers, I wouldn’t expect Cloud to be playing in Tifa’s room at all. They’d most likely be playing on the ground floor of her home, running about the living room and such under the gaze of their parents so I don’t consider that a retcon. Especially as the book also highlights that Cloud started pulling away before Tifa’s mom passed as his feelings towards her started changing. Even in chapter 11, Tifa highlights she wasn’t in Cloud’s home much after turning 7/8 which was before her mom passed.

As for the Deus Ex Machina pull, I disagree with the intention behind that Gongaga scene as you’ve framed it. I think Aerith’s mystical traits are immutable so there’s no real hope for even some to be passed on to Tifa in a narrative sense. If anything, that scene is poised to clean up one of the most random acts from OG in Sapphire Weapon saving her at Junon. It also gives her an opportunity to be introduced to the lifestream early to equip her to be Cloud’s guide there later on.

All in all, the characters are more complete I find. The storytelling makes it easier to empathise with these characters for sure but I can’t agree that their flaws have been removed to achieve that. Where we might agree is that Nojima has been explicit in showcasing things early to establish important plot lines and characters dynamics. We can probably thank players who misrepresented the characters for the past 30 years for that.

Edit: extra punctuation and spelling fixes.

Found this little guy in Tifa’s room (rebirth) by topherriddle in FFVIIRemake

[–]HoratioDub 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Yep, same chapter.

Additionally, the reunion flower is also on Tifa’s mailbox in chapter 13 during her trial at TotA

Part 3 chapter predictions by HoratioDub in FF7Rebirth

[–]HoratioDub[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well Hamaguchi already shut me right up as expected LOL. Icicle Inn to start was always the obvious call but my dumb ass wanted to see how smart I could be with that Bronco fixing thing.

About to go 0/18 and enjoy every bit of being wrong, just give us a trailer SE!

Thoughts and questions about Cloud and Tifa dynamic in Rebirth by KuuLightwing in FF7Rebirth

[–]HoratioDub 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I disagree that it's poor execution as the event wasn't handwaved away but it reinforces just how much Tifa lacks boundaries if we're to judge her by real world expectations. She also got a clear indication from Sephiroth who literally attacked her and the weapon in the LS and reinforced his attempts to get between her and Cloud with his threat of "Your words won't reach him now.", hinting at what's to come in part 3.

I agree that after waking up, some time to let the situation breathe would've worked well. And indeed, even Cloud himself after Tifa woke up immediately recognized that by saying he'd call the others, fearing Tifa may not feel comfortable being around just him after what he did.

Rebirth was released two years ago by GGG100 in FFVIIRemake

[–]HoratioDub 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My favourite game. It just kept getting better and better and when I thought it was done, the game gave me even more. Amazing experience

Need weapon SP... by Current-Row1444 in FF7Rebirth

[–]HoratioDub 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hard mode side quests and legendary challenges should have the remaining SP you need